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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:26 pm Subject: |
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My point was more speaking to the debtors who know very well about the debt but hide behind requesting paperwork to stall the proceedings. Or the debtors who hide behind the statue of limitations as a reason they are not paying back the debt. If the debtor honestly doesnt know about the debt, a responsible collector SHOULD do everything possible to validate the debt. Again, I am more speaking to the "professional" debtors who use the system against itself. And to answer your question, yes I would send you the money--just not western union!
As a collector I cannot afford to take what a debtor tells me at face value. It doesnt sound strange to you if someone said they overpaid by thousands of dollars?
Also I have a huge problem with the term Junk debt. Do you think collectors sit at home making this stuff up? It is not junk, just because it may be a little older does not mean you don't owe it. Put yourself in the shoes of the creditor. They gave you the money, don't you have an ethical responibilty to pay it back? What if these people borrowed money from you, would it matter if it was 2 years past due? Is it junk to you?
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brooklyn184
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:52 pm Subject: |
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Sorry Brooklyn184, I always request validation because I want to know if the person that is saying I owe it actually owns it. I had a collection agency (still not sure if they were real) call me trying to collect on an account that was being handled by another agency that I was paying off. The only info they could give me is what is on my credit report (I think someone did a promotional check) I called the company I was dealing with and they were not aware of it. After that I always want to get solid proof as my check book is stretched tight enough as it is and I want to make sure that everything I spend is going to where it is supposed to go.
But if it's mine and you own it, I'll pay it.
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JCEMT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:59 pm Subject: |
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Jcemt- That actually happens because most accounts are not sold indivdualy but as bigger portfolio's. Basically they are just excel spreadsheets,so mistakes can be made when one account is double sold. All you would have had to have done was provide some documentation to the second agency and they HAVE to back off.
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brooklyn184
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JCEMT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:23 am Subject: |
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my point is very simple I think
If someone knows they owe a debt but then has a collection agency calling them..they should always request validation..not as a stall tactic or an attempt to hide from the debt..but as proof for themselves that when they do pay..it will be cleared up from legitimate company and will not be resold to someone else..
in this world of identity fraud..junk debt portfolios..etc brooklyn has proven to me that everyone should request validation..
it should not be hard at all to prove that someone actually owes the debt you are trying to collect..that is why the term "debt validation" originated
it's not about payment or overpayment verification ..I don't think..the proof lies with the accuser as it always should and always will..not at all a stall tactic I don't think ..but instead a matter of common sense
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socksfullofrocks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:35 am Subject: |
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also as an afterthought
I think that unless you have the paperwork and the proof
upfront ...and can back that up
you should never be able to contact individuals and attempt to collect anything
perhaps I am being naive
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socksfullofrocks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:35 am Subject: |
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socksfullofrocks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:10 am Subject: |
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SocksRocks...what you are talking about is not debt validation it is called an affidavit of debt. Proving the ownership of the debt by the company in question. That is easy. I agree with you on that point. Requesting Validation of debt includes full itemization and much more paperwork. That is harder.
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brooklyn184
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:52 am Subject: |
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we always request a debt validation for any old debt. Not just to prove ownership, but we want the debt validated. Proven that it is ours , the correct amount of the debt, and a whole list of other things. It does not matter if it is harder to get, it is our right to have it.
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kashzan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:18 pm Subject: |
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The part I am confused about---How many/much credit cards/debt do you have that you are not sure it is yours? That is the part I never understood about validating. I can understand if you never had it...
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brooklyn184
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cajunbulldog
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 am Subject: |
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I also would just encourage Brooklyn to search this sight of how many people have had unknown debts that they have already settled or thought they did..show up on credit report years later..for instance during financing or refinancing a home.. ..
how about if they paid it once? then twice? and it still shows up ten years later ? Because proper validation of the debt was never originally requested as far as who actually owned it and what the amount owed to settle debt once and for good was?
Validation is not a stall tactic or an added excuse for someone not to pay...it is instead a needed piece of information that consumer files and can provide years later if debt unexpectedly shows up again with a different name and number.
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socksfullofrocks
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:33 am Subject: |
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It is difficult for some third party collection
agencies to obtain the paperwork you folks request. Simply because it is not always transfered as it gets sold to different collection agencies. Just a downfall of the system we operate in. In most cases I will just advise a consumer to check their CBR, as the agency will (should) be shown as the owner of the debt. Also, in most cases the collection agency calling you is not working on behalf of the creditor, so they do not always even have access to all of the paperwork. They should be able to provide you with a validation of debt-basically paperwork showing they are the rightfull owners of the account. Also, most consumers just use the requesting of this paperwork as a stall tactic. So some collection agencies take it as a sign the consumer will not ever pay anyway. It is easier to just sell it off then actually sue the consumer
these are your words Brooklyn..I think it would be much easier if your industry would simply provide facts and proof..people who stall or act like they don't intend to pay probably don't believe company has provided enough validation..perhaps I am wrong ...but can understand why people don't trust your industry..yet I do value your opinion as you have been very respectful in your posts that I have seen...
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socksfullofrocks
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:35 pm Subject: |
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| brooklyn184 wrote: | | My point was more speaking to the debtors who know very well about the debt but hide behind requesting paperwork to stall the proceedings. Or the debtors who hide behind the statue of limitations as a reason they are not paying back the debt. |
Proving my point is my job. You should stop doing it for me, huh?
Agreed that there are some percentage of people who are, as you call them, 'professional debtors'. There's good and bad pretty much everywhere. How is it that you, as a collector, know who's a professional debtor and who's trying to play straight but has fallen into a stretch of hard luck? You can't. Credit reports? So what? They only show a maximum seven years, and only a thin summary of that. That's not enough information to prove intent. Are you psychic?
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | If the debtor honestly doesnt know about the debt, a responsible collector SHOULD do everything possible to validate the debt. |
So... Again, how do you know whether or not they know about the debt? Or have honestly forgotten it, if they did know? Mental telepathy?
| brooklyn184 wrote: | And to answer your question, yes I would send you the money--just not western union!
As a collector I cannot afford to take what a debtor tells me at face value. It doesnt sound strange to you if someone said they overpaid by thousands of dollars? |
You oughtta PM me your phone number so I can call you about that $26k. I'd like a new Harley for spring. Seriously, after your statement about taking things at face value, do you expect an alleged debtor to do precisely that? Please don't be disingenuous.
And no, it doesn't sound all that strange to me that somebody could pay thousands more than they owe, over a period of decades. People move, papers get lost, memories fade. In short, we're all human.
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | Also I have a huge problem with the term Junk debt. |
You will, perhaps, understand if your discomfort fails to move me. The term is accurate. Grow a pair and live with it.
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | Do you think collectors sit at home making this stuff up? It is not junk, just because it may be a little older does not mean you don't owe it. |
How am I to know how some collectors arrive at their information? Unlike you, I'm not telepathic. If it's old, then yes, it's probably still valid. In which case you or the original creditor should be paid as promptly as possible, after you validate the debt. If you can't validate the debt as required by law, then yes, it's junk. As in legally defective. Lacking in merit.
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | Put yourself in the shoes of the creditor. They gave you the money, don't you have an ethical responibilty to pay it back? |
Sorry, boy. That sympathy line don't work on me. You want sympathy? It's in the dictionary, 'bout halfway between sh*t and syphillis.
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | What if these people borrowed money from you, would it matter if it was 2 years past due? Is it junk to you? |
Not at all. Unlike some, I'd simply drag out the papers to respond promptly to their request for validation. If that didn't do it, I'd pursue the matter legally. What I wouldn't do is call umpteen times a day, cause them problems at work, make a bunch of idle threats, lie, and all the other things that make collectionagencies so cute and loveable.
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Wulfisms: my blog
The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation? No payment. No way! No kidding!!
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:47 pm Subject: |
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| brooklyn184 wrote: | | Jcemt- That actually happens because most accounts are not sold indivdualy but as bigger portfolio's. Basically they are just excel spreadsheets,so mistakes can be made when one account is double sold. |
Spreadsheets? 
Listen. I'm an IT consultant that deals a lot with data warehousing. It's not a big deal to provide full documentation when you sell a debt portfolio. There are any number of good, reliable document-management solutions on the market that would allow all the papers to be kept track of, long term. Some of the best solutions are even free to use. Spreadsheets are fine, but they are meant to be used as worksheets, not primary documentation.
| brooklyn184 wrote: | | All you would have had to have done was provide some documentation to the second agency and they HAVE to back off. |
And sell it to another agency, right? Gimme a break......
_________________
Wulfisms: my blog
The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation? No payment. No way! No kidding!!
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:50 pm Subject: |
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| socksfullofrocks wrote: | my point is very simple I think
If someone knows they owe a debt but then has a collection agency calling them..they should always request validation..not as a stall tactic or an attempt to hide from the debt..but as proof for themselves that when they do pay..it will be cleared up from legitimate company and will not be resold to someone else..
in this world of identity fraud..junk debt portfolios..etc brooklyn has proven to me that everyone should request validation..
it should not be hard at all to prove that someone actually owes the debt you are trying to collect..that is why the term "debt validation" originated
it's not about payment or overpayment verification ..I don't think..the proof lies with the accuser as it always should and always will..not at all a stall tactic I don't think ..but instead a matter of common sense |
You, my friend, have hit the nail squarely on the head. Kudos. 
_________________
Wulfisms: my blog
The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation? No payment. No way! No kidding!!
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
Moderator
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Posts: 2449
Debtcc Points: 19572
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