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 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:18 pm Subject: CA-Attorney collecting on a PAID speeding ticket |
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... actually it was for blowing a stop sign, but I couldn't phrase that into a good subject line that made sense. Anywho ...
I got pulled over 7/2/2004 for making a rolling stop at a stop sign. The cop gave me a $75 ticket. The way our courts work - if you plead guilty and mail it in within 2 weeks, then you don't have to show up for court.
So I made out a check for $75, mailed it in on 7/6/2004 and the check cleared my bank 7/9/2004. I thought it was all over with ... Wrong!
Here we are 3 1/2 years later, I just got a letter from a collection attorney that says I never paid the ticket. Now they're threatening to report it to the Secretary of State and suspend my license. Also they threaten to get a judgment and report to the bureaus.
Good thing I still have all my bank statements, and I found the cancelled check. BUT after looking at the check, someone at the clerk's office wrote a different ticket # on the memo line. Now it looks to me like they used my check to pay someone else's ticket.
My first thought was send a dispute and request for validation. Then I remembered FDCPA applies to consumer debts (I really don't think it applies to government fines), so they'll just laugh if I start quoting FDCPA.
I drafted the following letter to the attorney, hoping maybe it'll do some good. Otherwise I'll have to go into the court clerk's office; which I really don't want to have to do because I'll be there all day.
Any suggestions?
| Quote: | December 29, 2007
ARNOLD SCOTT HARRIS, PC
600 W JACKSON BLVD STE 720
CHICAGO, IL 60661-5683
Ref: XXXXXXXX
Ticket No: YD999999
To Whom It May Concern:
I am in receipt of your notice regarding the above-referenced ticket, which alleges a balance still owed to the Cook County Circuit Court in the amount of $91.50.
This is news to me. While I wonder why it has taken nearly 3½ years for the Court to make any sort of contact with me over its claim, I also find it rather odd. The reason I say it is odd is because, in fact, I paid the ticket promptly after it was issued. After researching my archives, my investigation into the matter yields the following results:
1. The ticket was issued on 7/2/2004 and imposed a $75 fine. Along with the ticket, the issuing officer provided a pre-printed envelope and instructions whereby the payment could be mailed to the clerk in lieu of a court appearance.
2. I opted to mail my payment. On 7/6/2004 I submitted a check (#102) in the amount of $75.00 payable to the Clerk of the Circuit Court, enclosed inside the pre-printed envelope, and mailed said contents to the clerk’s office.
4. There is a reference “YD123456” written on the cleared check copy, which is not in my hand-writing; I assume this number was written by whomever processed my payment at the clerk’s office after they received it in the mail.
I have no knowledge of a ticket #YD123456 as referenced on my check, and I obviously was not trying to pay for that ticket when I remitted my payment. I can only suggest that this was a user/data-entry error on the clerk’s part, and that my payment was posted incorrectly.
In my capacity as the controller of a finance company, I know that my company receives and posts hundreds of payments to customer accounts per day. It is not uncommon for my staff to accidentally post a payment to the wrong account; when we find an error, we fix it. The Court Clerk’s office is prone to this same human error and has the same responsibility to correct its mistakes.
As you can see, I thought this matter was resolved when I seen the check clear my bank statement. The fact that this issue has resurfaced more than 3 years later is indeed a surprise to me. I am not one to avoid my obligations; if the evidence in fact shows that I still owe the ticket, then I will pay it. But I truly believe that my tender, acceptance and negotiation by the clerk’s office have discharged my obligations hereunder.
I will appreciate your inquiry into the matter. I look forward to your response as we may expedite a timely resolution.
Regards,
Debtcruncher |
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DebtCruncher
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JCEMT
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:35 am Subject: |
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Best of luck on this, Debtcruncher - I know it has to be frustrating! I experienced something similar last year when I found out that I couldn't renew my driver's license in MI because the VA DMV had suspended my license - which was news to me! Turns out that when I returned my license plates and my VA drivers license to the DMV after moving to MI, they didn't record it properly in their computer system, and it automatically suspended my license because I didn't provide proof of insurance to them. (Of course I didn't - I wasn't living there anymore!) I never got anything in the mail stating anything was wrong, and only found out over 5 years later, when I went to renew my MI driver's license.
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SUEBEEHONEY70
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:08 am Subject: |
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I'm sure that was the case here--that it was a data entry error at the courthouse and you have the proof with the wrong ID # on the back of your check.
Now they are going to have to go back to the owner of the other ticket and see if they actually did pay (and if they did, did the court refund it?) and if they didn't, they might have to go to court themselves, but Oh well!
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kscornell
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:16 am Subject: |
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Good luck. I've had a similar battle on my hand except I sent a MO. It was about 5 years ago and now I don't have the reciept. I'm stuck paying it all over again!
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FYI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:46 am Subject: |
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It's a good thing you weren't stopped in the meantime- they could have put you in jail-or at least here they do. I had a client in a similiar mess-didn't know they had not posted something on his behalf-5 years later he's on his way to work, has a broken tag light and gets stopped-the end result was jail! He got out fairly quick, but that's not the point.
Also, if it was sent to a CA sttorney- make sure they clear that part up and they haven't reported it on your credit- Good Luck..Karen
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Bossy4455
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:34 am Subject: |
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Thanks everyone for your responses!
Suebee and FYI - doesn't it just make you mad? Sure other people make mistakes and I understand that. At least with regular debts there is a dispute/validation procedure. Here, they screw up and we may get our license suspended over it.
I'm sorry FYI that you don't have your receipt anymore, that is really a bummer! About 2 months ago I was cleaning out my files, and I actually ran across this ticket and said "maybe I'll throw this out because I don't need it anymore." Then I hesitated and figured "better safe than sorry." I'm so glad I kept it now, or else I'd have no proof.
Deep down I know this attorney will just put it on the Court Clerk and tell me I need to fix it with them. I hate going to our court! They're one step short of performing a body cavity search in order to get in the building, then I'll have to wait in line for about 2 hours to speak to someone. Everyone in the county bldg hates their job and has bad attidudes, so I know I won't get someone who *wants* to help and they'll probably redirect me to 20 different departments. I almost would rather just pay it again than deal with all that beauracracy.
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DebtCruncher
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:43 am Subject: |
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| DebtCruncher wrote: | | --- snip lengthy post --- |
Your letter looks good. The only thing I'd maybe change is change 'seen' to 'saw' here:
| DebtCruncher wrote: | | As you can see, I thought this matter was resolved when I seen the check clear my bank statement. |
Send it to the attorney's office. You should also CC it to the court clerk's office, with a separate letter asking them to investigate the matter and set the record straight. Good luck to you.
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unclewulf
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:48 pm Subject: |
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In some cases, yes, it is a consumer debt. For example, the cities which use those "red light" cameras. They are run by private companies, and if you run a red light, you just get a ticket in the mail with no right to your day in court. If not paid, it's turned over to a collection agency. On the other hand, if a cop pulls you over, you have the right to due process.
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LawStudent
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:46 pm Subject: |
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Those damn red light cameras oughtta be done away with. Or, at minimum, cut the private contractor out of the loop. Lots of places, the company that owns/installs the units gets a percentage of the fines collected. Smell like a conflict of interest to you?
_________________
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The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation?
No payment.
No way!
No kidding!!
Economic Stimulus information from the Infernal Revenue Sadists
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:45 pm Subject: |
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I think our city runs our cameras but I'm not 100% sure. For all the protest about them they did a study on how they have dramatically reduced accidents at intersections. People at still running the lights, they are just more careful about it lol.
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FYI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:26 pm Subject: |
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Reminds me of the following funny...
A man received a ticket in the mail one day, along with a photo of his car passing through a red light, taken by one of those cameras mounted at intersections to catch just this sort of thing.
Being somewhat clever, he decided to try and beat the police at their own game. He returned the ticked in the mail to them, along with a PHOTO of a check in payment of the ticket. A few days later, he received another envelope in the mail from the police department, this time containing a photo of handcuffs.
He made payment in person the next day.
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SUEBEEHONEY70
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:49 pm Subject: |
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When I first heard that, the man had sent the cops a pic of two twenties. Still funny, though....
_________________
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The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation?
No payment.
No way!
No kidding!!
Economic Stimulus information from the Infernal Revenue Sadists
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:17 pm Subject: |
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Yes indeed, the companies get a percentage of the profits from the tickets. In some cities, I've heard as much as 75%. It's rather like the debt buyers. These companies persuade cities to let them install the cameras, and of course the city agrees, because it will be getting revenues it otherwise would miss, even if only 25% of the take. Maybe all this will be challenged in court one day. That's why these tickets are a consumer debt.
_________________
He who has freed himself of the disease of "tomorrow" has a chance to attain what he came here for. --G. I. Gurdjieff (1872-1949)
The science is in knowing, the art is in perceiving - Robert Fripp (1946-)
Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? - Johnny Rotten (John Lydon) (1956-)
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LawStudent
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:45 pm Subject: |
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IIRC, there have already been a couple of successful challenges to them. I caught that in a biker rag somewhere a while back. Damned if I can remember where they were, though. North Carolina sounds about right on one, but I may be off.
_________________
-
The four 'no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation?
No payment.
No way!
No kidding!!
Economic Stimulus information from the Infernal Revenue Sadists
Tellin' you all the zomby troof
Here I'm is, the zomby woof
[Frank Zappa, 1988 - R.I.P.]
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unclewulf
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