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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:26 pm

Ok...I've just about had it, I think.

My oldest child is 20, and is living with her fiancee in another state. She's never been what you'd call responsible with money. To my knowledge, and from what I've seen, neither has her fiancee, who is also 20.

They moved in with me for a few months last year, and couldn't find jobs right away. So in the interest of keeping their credit in decent shape, I paid some of their bills for them, along with mine. After almost 3 months of searching for, but not finding jobs, they moved to another state to live with HIS mom, who paid their way until they both got a job (fast food) and moved into a low-income apartment in the same complex she lives in.

Fast forward to today....

I found out from the fiancee's mom last night that they are not keeping up with their bills, though they have been telling both "moms" that they are. They are now 2 months behind on almost all of their bills, except their rent, which they don't have the money to pay this month. His mother has been helping them as much as possible, paid to have their cat fixed & declawed so it wouldn't destroy their new apartment, bought dishes and such for their new apartment since they had none (and I sent a care package of things as well), and has given them food and money more than once to help them out. But it's basically all been done in vain, because they apparently think it will continue indefinitely. His mom told me last night that he came to her asking for money to pay the rent and his car payment, or the rent wouldn't get paid and the finance company for the car would take him to court. (Which means my daughter's dad would also go to court, because he co-signed for the loan - something I advised him not to do. But hey, I'm the "ex"..what do I know? Shocked

) They also have not paid anything on their gas/electric bill, or phone/cable bill, for two months now (basically since they moved into the apartment).

I know they've already damaged their credit pretty badly - they ran up a cell phone bill with Sprint and didn't pay it; went to the hospital ER with a sore throat (her) and a strained back muscle from a fight (him) and didn't pay the bills, and now they're behind on their cable/phone bill. They applied for a credit card and were denied...so I know those unpaid items are showing up already on their credit reports.

So I guess my question is this: what the heck can we "moms" do to get these kids to learn??? Other than the obvious, which is to let them fall on their butts a few times, until they learn that neither Mom is always going to be there to pull their feet from the fire every time they jump into it. I don't like the fact that his mom keeps saving them every time they get into trouble - but that's what's happening. I know she's only trying to help, and to keep them from losing their apartment, because they will have nowhere to go if they do. Neither she nor I can take them back in, and her dad probably wouldn't either - he really has no room for them.

My daughter knows I work with this website...I've explained everything I've learned to her about debt, credit and payday loans here. But that didn't stop her from running out and getting a payday loan when she needed cash. (Fortunately, it was a legal one, and they were decent to work with.)

So how do I get it through their heads that they're totally screwing up their futures?

HELP??!!

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:08 pm

I think sometimes, you've gotta let kids learn the hard way. I don't have any kids, and I'm young ( 26 ) and I already have more than $60,000 in debt.

I have never asked my parents for help because I am terrified of what they will have to say about my situation and I am already ashamed. Sadly, my parents never educated me on credit and personal finance. My mother cut up every credit card offer I received in the mail until I moved out at 22. So to me, credit was this big, mysterious thing. I thought that as long as you paid your creditors on time, you would have outstanding credit and never run into trouble- I thought that was all you needed to know about credit. WRONG. I had no idea that debt to income ratios, high balances, and inquiries can knock down your score just as much as late payments and accounts in collections.

When my car's engine had to be replaced 4 years ago, I was too afraid to ask my parents once again for help ( even though I know they would have helped ) because I knew my mom would be angry that I hadn't budgeted ahead of time for emergencies. So that's how I got involved with Cashcall. Only I couldn't keep up with Cashcall's payments, so that's how I got involved in PDLs. And then, I couldn't keep up with the PDLs, and I started taking on more high interest loans just to keep the bills paid. I was borrowing from Paul to pay Peter, and I just dug myself deeper.

And now, 4 years later, I am in more trouble than when I first signed my soul over to Cashcall. Part of me is upset with my parents for never educating me on credit and etc. Part of me is upset that they have themselves so unapproachable to the point that I am terrified to tell them my troubles. Part of me still wants to go to them and cry and say I'm sorry and beg for help. But I don't. I can't.

In the end, I continued my cycle of debt through foolishness. When I got bonus checks at work, I bought nice things for myself instead of applying them towards the debts. I just figured I would be in debt for the rest of my life, anyways. So a lot of where I am now is still my fault, and my fault alone.

Your kids are very, very lucky that they have had TWO moms who have been bailing them out of trouble again and again. I think that is the problem- they are not becoming financially responsible because they have learned that if there is a problem, Mommy will take care of it.

I feel at this point, you will have to let them go and grow up on their own. Maybe going through the stress of no money and no credit will make them wisen up. If they are starving, by all means, deliver groceries to them- food. But don't put cash into their hands even more, because it may or may not be used for the right things. But personally, I am so tired of living in fear of payday and crying when I see my account go negative, that I've decided to change my ways. I am starting a second job next week, and am thinking of taking on a 3rd to pay off my debts.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but it has to be learned some time. I think you have already done more than enough for your children. It may be difficult to watch them stress and hurt, but otherwise, they may never learn.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:36 pm

Mine and my husbands mom I think has helped us pay for a few bills when we first started to live on our own but we were always obligated to pay that money back when we could, which we did, or there wouldn't be anymore help when we needed it.

I truely didn't understand the importance of credit until I was 27. My husband and I had literally trashed our credit pretty badly, mostly unpaid bills and only 2 credit cards, fortunately. It's been a hard lesson on us both to learn to live with a lifestyle that is affordable. We aren't that great at saving money sometimes but all of our bills are paid on time.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:34 pm

My daughters are 18 and 22--and I think the biggest debt for young adults in their age group is college. My kid graduated from a great school--and is $60,000 in debt from student loans. This is something that our generation never had to deal with.
My 22 year old has a great job making almost $20,000 more than me--but she's already in debt up to her earlobes. And what's going to happen when she wants to buy a home? I just shudder at the thought...

Guest · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:27 pm

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:28 pm

That last post was me. Forgot to log in XD

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:00 pm

I appreciate the support and stories, everyone. I'm just so frustrated with them right now. My daughter saw me make financial mistakes myself and have to deal with them, and she's seen me pull myself up by my bootstraps to get back on my feet, only to have the rug pulled out from under me once again by things beyond my control...so I'd get back up and start over again. But I have tried so hard to teach her the RIGHT way to do things, and after my own experience with payday loans, which was small compared to some we've seen here, but no less dangerous, I thought she'd never take one out, much less get herself in over her head the way she has. I thought I had made everything very clear to her, and to her fiancee when they lived with me. I guess I failed at that.

At this point, his mom is asking me for advice on how to get them to understand, and I've told her all I know to do is to let them fall once or twice, and stop saving them every time they stumble financially, which they're doing big time right now.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:17 pm

My mother and I had a discussion about this the other week, actually ( not about my financial situation. I'm still too scared to divulge that info ). And I told her that sometimes, kids are too afraid to come to their parents for help, because they are already in a terrible position and they are afraid their parents will get mad and make them feel even worse about themselves and how they got into this mess than they already do. So instead, we try to keep everything hush and try to fix things ourselves without the wise knowledge of our elders, and end up in even deeper trouble because we are too afraid to ask for help.

And my mother said that from the parent's point of view, they get extremely mad and upset often with the child, but deep down inside, they feel upset because they believe that THEY failed to protect their child and to raise and educate them properly enough to keep them out of such messes.

So I understand where you are coming from, Suebee. But it sounds like you have picked up the tab more than enough times and your kids have to learn some responsibility. It's better that they learn it now when they are younger and have the ability to pick up and work second jobs and cut back on things when they don't need to clothe and feed children of their own. Better they learn now than further down the road when their debt is completely out of control and they have a mortgage and kids to raise of their own.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:42 am

Suebeehoney-I also have a son who is 20 and I am going through with trying to help him understand about finances as I have been paying his credit card bills and cellphone bill. He came to me one day stating that he wasn't making as much as he usually does and needed my help. Well when he came to see me one day and showed me his new tattoo, I got upset. I told him pay your cellphone, its not a neccessity to me or you. Then it was one thing after another that I noticed he would buy Xbox, games, etc. and then the following week he would say he didn't know what he was going to do about gas money for his car. I told him that is it, we are going to sit down and he is going to pay all of his bills. I said if he has to the cellphone will get shut off and he will sale items that he has bought that he really didn't need. I don't know how to get across to him that if it is not a neccessity its not needed. Therefore, if you don't have the money you don't buy it. I am part to blame as I raised him by myself and have always kind of coddled him. Well now I am trying to do the tough love thing and he is getting upset, and I always say to him oh well, you will understand one day. I do agree things were a lot different when I was younger, my parents never bought us things, if we wanted something we had to work and buy it ourselves even school clothes at times. My son never had to worry about that as everything was provided to him. That was one of my biggest mistakes as I feel I have enabled him and he feels that I am being mean. I said no its time to grow up and I try to explain to him how does he think I did it by myself, I worked and if I needed to I would get a second job. How do you correct this? I want to send him to a course for all basic finance-(which I still think they should have more of this in high school as a mandatory course.). Then he can come on this site and give other young adults some advise since they will probably listen to each other and this is also a thought-young adults today have Myspace and you name it, maybe this site would get even more exposure.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:55 am

THANK YOU Kolodin & Amaranth for your points of view. Kolodin, you hit the nail on the head. His mom works for a major big-box retailer, so they come and do their grocery shopping there every week - and she's a cashier, so she sees everything they buy. Movies, video games, shoes (daughter is a clothes horse!), junk food (frozen pizzas, tv dinners, chips, pop) and CIGARETTES. The smoking thing ticks me off - if they can afford the price of cigarettes, they can afford to pay their bills - and could afford even more if they gave them up. Not trying to offend any smokers here - but these are KIDS who only started smoking in the past few years, can't afford to, and could give it up.

Again, I really appreciate your points of view...I've sent them a couple of care packages containing things they could use for their new home, but I won't send any more right now, because I'm afraid they're going to lose that new home very soon if they don't shape up - and my sending a few household gadgets and pots and pans is NOT going to help that.

I refuse to send them money (can't afford to anyway) because they simply won't spend it wisely.

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:53 am

SueBee, I know too well what you are going through. As you know, I have a 34 year old son, who is responsible with money, and a 27 year old son who isn't.

When he got overdrafts at the bank at age 20, I paid them because my name was on his account (learned from that)! Well, after a lecture and some budget help he eventually did it again. I marched his behind up to the bank to talk with a bank officer and explain how and when HE was going to pay it off.

Fast forward--he met a girl with 2 kids, and then you have 2 people who aren't responsible. I learned there is a difference between "helping someone through a tough time, and enabling them. I am embarrassed to say, as a counselor, that I did the latter, but didn't take long to figure that one out.

Just as I had to figure I was throwing good money after bad, and had to learn that, they will have to learn to stand on their own two feet. My son and girlfriend got a large tax return,and I talked with them about paying off their bills to give them extra money each month. They bought a trampoline Laughing

The only way I learn lessons is to get sick of paying the consequences of my actions.

It isn't easy to watch yur children do this and go through this, but my hope is that they learn their lesson alot sooner than I did mine.

All I can do is tell them I love them, but I can't support 2 households anymore. Me and my husband worked two jobs to get out of debt, but we were willing to take that action.

Hang in there, PM me if you want..KAren

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:26 am

Thanks Karen! It's rough seeing them struggle, but infuriating to know that they struggle because of their own actions, even when advised how to do something to improve it.

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:51 am

Well, a little update to this thread...my daughter's fiancee's mom paid her own rent AND theirs last month, by cashing the stock that she and her other son had in the store they work for. It totalled just enough to pay my daughter & her fiancee's rent for April.

I asked her what she was going to do next time they came to her for help - she's cashed in her stock and emptied her savings account to help them over the past couple of months. She said she can't help them anymore, and that she told them that. I told her she needs to simply STOP helping them - period. Neither of us can afford it. I did talk to my daughter the other day, and she assures me that things are going ok, that they're keeping their bills paid - but I'm not sure I believe it, since I've been lied to for so long regarding that issue.

I guess all I can do at this point is hope and pray that it all works out, and they don't end up getting evicted.

Guest · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:34 am

I am sorry to say this but IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!! I could see if they where suddenly disabled and had nowhere to turn but they can work, it is their problem to deal with, not yours and not his mothers. Too many times I see parents who bail their adult children out because they are not responsible. Don't do it anymore.

The other problem was also mentioned. The reason why these young people are losing their houses and stuff is because they want to live high and mighty. They buy or rent a house too big for them. They buy a Plasma TV they don't need, video game systems, cars too expensive. They need to learn on their own, If they get bailed out, they figure they are all set for the month and will go out and spend the money they have, when it comes time to pay their bills, they have nothing.

Let them fall down, let them get thrown out of the apartment. I know it's mean to do but it has to stop, they will keep using you and his mother for the rest of your lives.

Another thing is that what happens when you or his mother becomes sick? You spent all that money helping them out so who's going to help you? Not them, thats for sure.

I am really trying to help you see the light on this and hope it helps. I know it's your daughter but you need to cut the cord.

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:37 am

Thanks, Guest - your points are all ones that I totally agree with. I stopped helping them a long time ago - but now HIS mom has stepped up to start helping them, and has exhausted her own resources doing so. I've advised her to just let them fall on their butts a few times, and they will learn - quickly - that they can't keep coming to her for help. She's done far too much for them already - stuff I wouldn't have done - like paying to have their cat fixed and declawed! Evil or Very Mad

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