UK debt question - debt recovery [please help]

I have several debts in England, from when I was a student there. (I'm a US citizen, and I'm now back in the States working.) One of them is long-overdue (AMEX), and I've been contacted by a debt recovery service ("S.R.J. Debt Recoveries"). Apparently, while the amount I owe is 1900. pounds, there's a "full and final settlement offer" on the account of 1400. pounds.

I spoke with someone on the phone last week, and she was fairly pleasant (unusual, I know). She said if I pay 40. pounds by the end of the month, and if I pay off the 1400. pounds by the end of July, that'd be it.

Because I'm still a student, officially, I'm in the process of trying to secure one last student loan to cover the cost of this bill. But I wonder whether anyone has any advice on this.

(I *do* want to make good on this legitimate debt; I feel awful it's taken so long to take care of if. And while I know that this debt doesn't affect my credit standing here in the US, I lay awake at night afraid of being arrested at the airport, whenever I next try to enter the UK ... something I'll need to do in September.)

So, two questions, I guess:

(a) Should I not pay anything at all until I can pay everything?
(b) Should I worry about travelling to the UK? (I have one other outstanding debt, though it's not quite as tardy as this one.)

Thanks in advance! I've posted here once before, and the advice I received was tremendously helpful.

BB Mariah

If you are positive about making the payment, and don't want to live with the fear of being taken to the court when you are in UK, clear off this account. But before you do this, make sure that the company contacting you for this account has your legitimate details. Get all your account info in writing and an agreement copy that they will be updating to your creditors after the account is paid off. You must be 100 percent sure that the company is placing a legit settlement deal.

BKP, thanks very much for this advice!

I'm not sure whether the documents I've received are sufficient for what you mention. Neither of the two letters I've received include the account numbers from my original credit card. Nor does either letter specify explicitly that my creditor will be updated after the account is paid off. Do you think I ought to request this before paying the nominal amount they requested?

Incidentally, I guess I rather thought that I was exaggerating when I envisioned being arrested at the airport, but when you say "if you ... don't want to live with the fear of being taken to the court when you are in UK," do you mean to suggest that my worry actually is well-founded?

Yes, you must request for the needed info because right now, the company hasn't given you enough info to prove about their legit deal. I will be surprised if I don't see the account number for which they are collecting.

You can't be sent to jail for not paying the debt. The most that *might* happen is the company will sue you in the court and request the judge to file a judgment against you. In that case, you will be forced to pay the debt through court order and perhaps, your wages being garnished. Perhaps, you can avoid all this from happening.

Thanks for this, BKP. I'll make sure to ask the company for the info, even though, as you say, it would be surprising if they didn't have this info. Fingers crossed ...

Hello again.

I now have the funds to pay this debt in its entirety. And I have from the debt recovery office (S.R.J. Debt Recoveries) the letter whose text is copied below. What I don't have is a letter that has my original account number (i.e., credit card number).

I've just phoned the debt recovery office, and they say that they don't have my original account number on file and so can't provide it. They did encourage me to phone the original credit card company and confirm that this debt settlement offer has been sent to them.

So my question is: is this enough? Is it advisable for me to go ahead and pay this money (either with my US debit card, or with a US check)?

My sense, having spoken with this office twice, is that this is legit.; and they haven't been rude or demanding. But, needless to say, I don't want to make any mistakes.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks as always!

BBMariah

***

FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT OFFER.

Hi everyone.

You've all been very helpful to me over the past two years, as I've tried to dig my way out of financial hell. I'm getting close to accomplishing that feat now, but in order to do it, I could really use your help on this question (as well as possibly one more, but not until tomorrow).

So, if anyone who's reading this has some advice about this thread, I'd be exceedingly grateful if you could jot down a note or two sometime soon.

Thanks again!

BBMariah

the credit card company is amex?

Yes, the credit card company is AMEX, but it's AMEX in the UK. (This was a credit card I acquired while living in the UK as a student. I'm now back in the US.)

Maybe try & call the credit card company, and find out if indeed they have agreed to this arrangement also and that it will state paid as agreed- since the letter states that they agreed. Get a letter from them stating the same thing, so you can cover yourself from both angles. To me, more than enough info is much better than not enough.Just a thought!

Thanks dalfire. I'll try that.

Anyone else have suggestions/advice?

So, I confirmed with AMEX (UK) that the account was indeed transferred to the debt collection agency (SRJ Debt Recoveries) who had made the settlement offer. SRJ's letter specified that this would be a full and final settlement offer. Everything looked and seemed on the up and up.

I went ahead and wired the money from my bank to SRJ's account at NatWest in England on Thursday afternoon. I phoned Friday and today (Tuesday), and both times SRJ says they still haven't received the funds and that I should phone back in a day or two.

I think it's quite possible that the money took a day or two to arrive (including the weekend) and that it may then take another day or two to be associated with my account specifically. (As they requested, I included my reference number on the wire transfer. I still have a copy of this.)

But should I be worried? And if so, is there anything else I should be doing at this point?

Anyone?

Dear BBMariah and all those with UK debt,

I have extensive experience in dealing with the UK debt collection industry. By way of a very brief background, 3 years ago, I had an excellent credit rating and was employed as a solicitor (an attorney) at a leading UK law firm. I got sick, my pay stopped, and I was unable to pay my debts. In the period that has elapsed since, I have been hounded by debt collection agencies in a manner which I would say arguably falls foul of the UK's criminal anti-harrassment legislation.

I appreciate that many who post on these forums will think that the best way to achieve "closure" is by settling debts in full, etc, but my experience has taught me one valuable lesson - no matter how scary and threatening the letters and phonecalls from these organisations get, they never carry through on their theats. I too have been hounded by SRJ over a £1,400 AmEx debt. For the past two years, they have been sending letters and calling my cellphone and leaving messages to suggest that they will "go to litigation next week" or something to that effect - they still haven't. I very much doubt that they ever will.

For this and other reasons, I have come to the conclusion that I will simply play cat and mouse with them. Why? Let me summarise:

1. In moral terms, I think that we are all thoroughly ripped-off by the financial services sector, so I don't really have any issues with stinging them back - that is my basic starting premise.

2. No matter how "sophisticated" they allege that their debtor tracing systems are, there are very basic flaws in the way that they operate - I only know that they are writing me threatening letters because I have a mail forwarding service from the UK's post office from an address that I lived at two years ago - they have not found me at my current address. I do my best to keep living "under the radar".

3. The only means of contact they still have for me is my cellphone number - I ignore any calls from anonymous or unidentifiable numbers, and I delete any voicemail messages they leave for me without listening to them.

4. Once a period of six years has elapsed from the first day of my debt default, the UK's limitation of action legislation will kick in and they will be barred from issuing court proceedings.

Many will, no doubt, think that this attitude is reprehensible - but so is the approach and attitude of these debt collection agencies.

For those who owe debts in the UK, but who now live in the US, let me give you some advice:

1. Firstly, and most importantly, NO ONE WILL ARREST YOU AT THE AIRPORT, YOU HAVE NOT COMMITTED A CRIMINAL OFFENCE UNDER UK LAW. You have breached a contract - nobody can, and nobody will arrest you for that. It is up to the creditor, or whoever they sell the debt to, to sue you and enforce the judgment.

2. If they do wish to sue you, they have SIX YEARS FROM THE DATE OF DEFAULT, OR THE LAST DATE UPON WHICH YOU ACKNOWLEDGED IN WRITING THAT YOU OWE THE DEBT to issue court proceedings. If they fail to do that, they are "out of time" and the debt is gone. Notwithstanding this, I am aware of many instances where debt collection agencies in the UK pursue people beyond the six year limitation period, and attempt to convince them that they can still be sued. THIS IS A LIE.

3. Assuming (and this is a big assumption) that they do issue court proceedings and, as is then likely, in your absence obtain a "default" judgment, they then have to enforce it.

4. Enforcement remedies are very limited. They can compel the issue of a mortage over a UK property (a "charging order"), they can force a UK employer to deduct the debt from your salary (an "attachment of earnings order"), they can attempt to seize personal property to satisfy the debt ("garnishee order" and "warrant of execution") or they can issue bankruptcy proceedings.

5. Even if you still reside in the UK, they have to track you down and issue notice of enforcement proceedings in person.

6. If you are not based in the UK, this makes things very difficult for them. If you live in another European Union state or a small number of other nations, there might exist treaties under which there exist reciprocal enforcement remedies. If there is no such treaty in force between the UK and the country in which you reside, then they are powerless to pursue you. I strongly believe that there is no such treaty in force between the UK and the USA.

7. Even if such a treaty exists between the UK and the nation where you reside, the cost of pursuing international enforcement action is expensive. The debt collection agency will invariably have to conduct a cost-benefit analysis and, in the case of debts in the order of £1,500, it is doubtful that it would be to their benefit to go down this track.

Please, please, think very hard before complying with the requests of any UK debt collection agency if you are in this position. They are confidence tricksters. Do not think yourself morally reprehensible because you have left unpaid debt behind you in the UK - before you even took out the debt, the risk of default was calculated by the creditor and priced into their interest rates.

You seem very knowledgable. Can the UK credit card company sell the debt to a US credit recovery agency. I was contacted saying I owe $4000+ and I have no real debt in the US apart from the odd credit card which I maintain. This $4K can only be from the UK.

I have been contacted by what seems a US debt collection agency for debts that I believe are from the UK (credit cards) from when i lived there. I live in the US now.

They have left phone msgs to call them back but I have not done so. They are called allied interstate and a quick google search comes up with horror stories about their tactics.

My biggest fear is not that I'll be arrested if I go back to the UK but if the US debt collection agency has the right to report this to the credit agencies here in the US. Can they report UK credit debt to a US credit bureau like Experian etc??

Thanks in advance this thread was very informative.