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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:39 pm Subject: |
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Wow, and here I thought I was the only one in this boat. AT&T improperly billed me after they failed to set up my account correctly, giving me only half of the monthly "anytime" minutes I signed up for. I disputed this with AT&T, but they refused to acknowledge or correct their error, a fact that cost me overage charges, which I refused to pay. I wrote two different multi-page letters, explaining in painful detail and timelines my position in this matter. In both instances, I never got a response. Believing I had been wrongly treated, I filed a complaint with the BBB in the state of Washington and I *finally* got a response from them. But again, they failed to correct their error. This issue continued through the Cingular aquisition of AT&T wireless for well over a year, after which I refused to pay them any more and switched phone companies. My argument then -- as well as now -- is that I give them plenty of time and opportunity to correct this situation and my attempts were met with nothing but failure on their part.
Now I'm getting numerous calls with forged caller ID ranging from 952-674-4770 through 952-674-4780, which I finally tracked down to BCR. When I try to dial these numbers, I get a recording stating that the number has been disconnected or is no longer in service. I'm relatively sure that providing false caller ID is against FCC rules, but in reading the prior posts in this thread, I'm guessing that following the rules in the least of their concerns.
I'm no attorney, but I plan to explore more of what "Virginia Legal Defense" had to say and find out what my rights are.
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Roy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:29 pm Subject: response w/FDCPA demand for verification letter |
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First, let me point out that I'm licensed only in Virginia and admitted to practice in the Federal Courts in Va. I haven't ever done class action suits, although this is certainly a good opportunity for one, but they're highly technical and I generally represent defendants, not plaintiffs. If anyone is sued in a court in Virginia over one of these things, I could certainly represent you there or find someone who will.
I see that my email address has been deleted from the msg I sent earlier, so I'll post the text of the demand for verification letter here, with some loss of formatting (highlight the entire thing, press CTRL-C to copy, open Windows Notepad, Wordpad or your word processor with a new document window and press Shift-Insert to paste the text. Edit appropriately to meet your needs.)
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____ | Quote: | ___________________________________
Date of this Letter
Addressee:
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________
Re: Your demand for payment letter purportedly mailed on ____________________. (copy attached.)
I deny the indebtedness you claim, and demand written verification of the debt. The verification shall include copies of any and all contracts, acknowledgments of indebtedness, writings or other instruments upon which you will rely or which you claim form the basis for your attempts at enforcement of the purported debt or which you claim demonstrate either legal damages or my liability therefor. You will also provide a complete statement of account and all information required under 15 U.S.C. § 1692(g) including the true and correct name of the purported creditor. In addition, and to the extent the claimed indebtedness represents sums allegedly due by reason of the provision of products or services, documentation supplying the five additional items of information is demanded:
the date and time the service was performed or materials delivered;
the identity of the person or persons who performed the service or provided the materials;
a complete description of the service performed or the materials delivered;
the amount of time expended or other quantifiable basis for billing; and
the hourly rate or other measure of the amount purported to be due.
A failure to provide me with the documents upon which you will rely to demonstrate both liability and legal damages will be taken as a failure to provide the verification demanded. Any further attempt to contact me or to collect on this purported debt will be treated as a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act as well as any other applicable legislation. This demand for verification is made without prejudice and is neither an attempt to settle any claims, nor is it a waiver or release of any rights or claims I may have or causes of action which have already accrued against either you or your principal.
__________________________________________
(signature)
Name and address of purported debtor:
______________________________________________________________________ _________
______________________________________________________________________ _________
______________________________________________________________________ _________
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Suggestions for use of this form letter:
First and most important: you have thirty days in which to send the debt collector a letter in which you deny the debt and demand verification after your first receipt of a notice conforming to the FDCPA, usually contained in the demand letter. The notice usually says you have thirty days in which to contest the debt after which the debt collector is entitled to consider the debt valid.
You have to be able to prove you mailed the demand for verification within the thirty days. By the way, there is no advantage to waiting until the last minute to send the letter; you're much better off sending it promptly, so that issues like "what constitutes 'receipt' or 'mailing" won't matter (e.g., should the letter be mailed on the thirtieth day, is it too late because the debt collector won't have received it within the thirty days, and does the first of the thirty days count as "one" or "zero"?).
The debt collector has five days from the date of his first contact to you, regardless of what form that contact takes, in which to send you a written notice of your rights under the FDCPA. Make a copy of the demand letter and attach it to the letter you send so they can't complain that they didn't know your account number or name as it appears in their computer.
Have a reliable friend with you, someone competent to appear in court if necessary as a witness, to read the demand for verification, and initial it at the bottom in a corner (for later identification in court). Have the witness watch you fold the copy (keep the original for your records - don't send a debt collector originals of anything) and place it in an envelope. Have the witness read the "address for other correspondence" on the debt collector's demand for payment letter to you, and compare that name and address with that on your envelope.
Note that there is always a different address for payments and "other correspondence" - that's so they can safely ignore anything that comes in the P.O.Box designated for payments other than a payment. You must send the demand for verification to the "other correspondence" address.
After the witness compares the name and address to be sure it's right, have the witness go to the post office with you and watch you mail it. The witness has to be able to testify that the same letter you put in the envelope is that which was in the envelope that went into the mail, so after you fold and seal the envelope, give it to the witness who will hold it for you until you mail it.
At the post office, either send the letter by (1) registered mail, return receipt requested or (2) first class priority mail with delivery confirmation. Regardless of which method you choose (all you really have to do is prove you mailed it, so it doesn't matter whether the green card actually comes back) get a "certificate of mailing" for an extra buck or so and a cash receipt.
I prefer priority mail, since registered mail can be rejected or ignored, and that way I can get an email that tells me when the letter was actually delivered by date and time (so I can measure violations of the FDCPA from and after that date and time). The certificate of mailing, along with your witness' testimony and the original letter will be necessary to prove when and what you mailed. Then keep a log of each and every letter and phone call from the debt collector.
Each one made in violation of the FDCPA is worth a thousand dollars or more plus attorneys' fees when you sue the debt collector. If they send you documentation purporting to verify the debt, look through it carefully and see if you can find information that they could use to prove (1) that there is a valid debt of the amount claimed and (2) you're the person who owes the money. If you're not sure, take it to a lawyer and pay the lawyer to look through it.
Don't count on this information being up-to-date; see 15 U.S.C. § 1692 et seq. for the full scoop on the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. It is believed to be useful as of February 16, 2006. This form is provided as a suggestion based on actual usage in a law practice since about 1997. You are acting as your own lawyer in using this form, and you are expected to adapt it to your specific purposes based on your own knowledge and legal research. The use of this letter assumes that you can, in good faith, deny that you owe the amount of money that is claimed.
You can use it if you believe you do owe money, but that the amount you owe is materially different from that claimed. If you do owe the money as claimed, you can create more problems than you can solve by using this letter - if you don't want to pay them, wait until they file suit and see what kind of proof they can offer the court. If you simply want to make the debt collector stop, just send them the money.
If you're not willing to do what's necessary to protect your rights, just give up now and save yourself the effort. If you use this letter effectively, even if you owe some part of the debt, the debt collector may end up owing you more than you owe the creditor.
Post edited for cleaner view-Denny
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Virginia Legal Defense
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:44 pm Subject: |
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Virginia Legal Defense,
Thanks for the help. Why don't you signup this forum? You can have direct interaction with members through PM service then. We need your suggestion and support in future too. Thanks once again 
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stanley
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:06 am Subject: BCR Info |
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Since I've filed suit in Virginia against BCR, here's some information anyone with a similar problem may be able to use. I invite any present or former employees of BCR to tell me if I'm wrong about any of this.
Blake Rice is the CEO and founder of Universal Recovery Systems, Inc. as well as Bureau of Collection Recovery, Inc. Joel Lewis is the president of both companies. There may be a third entity, or it may be a "dba" they're using, "UniversalSystems, Inc.". Blake Rice owns a patent applying predictive dialing technology heretofore used by telemarketers in a scheme designed to optimize the efficiency of telephone-based collections by splitting the people who talk into two groups, operators and collectors. The purpose of the operators is to verify the identity of the person called and transfer the call to a collector if one is available, and otherwise to ask the debtor to call back on a toll free number.
These companies are also doing business under the unregistered fictitious names, "BCR" and "UniversalSystems", "bureauofcollections.com", and "universalsystems.net" Universal Recovery Systems, Inc. is the registered owner of the trademark, "UniversalSystems". It appears that the company is split into two entities, where Universal develops and implements software based on Rice's patent, and Bureau uses the software to engage directly in debt-collection.
Bureau of Collection Recovery, Inc is licensed in a number of states as a debt-collector. In Minnesota, where they are principally located, both the company and the persons employed as debt collectors must be licensed. You can check at the state's website:
https://www.egov.state.mn.us/Commerce/license_lookup.do?action=lookupF orm
The two companies are co-located, have the same telephone numbers, and are functioning as two divisions of the same entity. I believe they are operating as mutual partners, agents and co-conspirators, and I have sued both as such.
Aside from the primary location, they also have an installation at 1009 NE 16th St., Willmar, MN 56201. That installation probably functions as a telephone call center.
Their fax number is 952-259-1191
They are known to use the following telephone numbers in their collection efforts:
206-278-8708
206-278-8709
206-278-8723
206-278-8777
206-278-9122
888-276-8209
888-862-2385
952-674-2391
952-674-4770
952-674-4771
952-674-4772
999-999-9999
(The last one is used only to detect whether or not someone is available at the called number to pick up the telephone.)
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I am licensed as an attorney only in Virginia. Opinions that I post here are general statements, and not legal advice. Please confirm what you need to know with an attorney licensed in your state. Email me regarding issues of Virginia or U.S. law., or if the person you're having a problem with has a presence in Virginia.
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VirginiaLegalDefense
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:00 am Subject: BCR |
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I have been recieving harrasing phone calls from BCR. I have been contacted by them four times in a four day period. I was treatened of a lawsuit that was not accually pending. Harrased and spoken to very rudley. I am not sure if this place is even legit. I cant find a website, they would not give me their mailing address, I never recieved anything in the mail from them. I made two compaints to the supervisor. He advised me not to work with BCR, and reffered me back to verizon wireless. He did not seemed surprised in any way of the harrasment and lies told by BCR. He did not even know that the FDCPA excits, and seemed shocked that I knew of my rights as a consumer. Please file a copmlaint with the FDCPA regarding BCR. This place needs to be educated on the right way to collect a debt.
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not happy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:32 am Subject: |
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Virginia Legal, thank you for taking the time to provide valuable insight into the debt validation process and the legal mechanisms involved in debt issues. Your presence here ia most valuable and very much appreciated.
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jj
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Location: Washington State Debtcc Points: 8589
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:39 am Subject: |
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Not happy,
Try to settle the debt directly with your creditor, hope they will cooperate with you.
Also file your complaint with BBB, FTC and AG's office of your state that will take them through a legal investigation.
BTW, I agree with JJ. Virginia Legal is putting valued information here. We wish to learn more from you. Also we need more such persons in this forum, so that consumers' legal rights are protected.
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stanley
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:30 am Subject: |
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It's good to see people like Virginis Legal giving some much educated advice.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:10 pm Subject: Turn this Fraud into the FTC |
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BUREAU OF COLLECTION RECOVERY INC
7575 Corporate Way
Eden Prairie
Minnesota
55344
Phone 1-800-831-7311
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Bozo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:38 am Subject: mee too |
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I am currently experiencing this problem, I have a letter also. They did not report to the major credit bureaus. Now BCR tells me to contact AT&T to have them update my file. At & t says to contact BCR. I am about to get an attorney to fix this issue.
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angela siems
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:15 am Subject: ALL |
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I have been a manager at bureau of collection recovery-i honestly think debtors as yourself are always looking for a place to vent with other debtors to make all of you look like your the honest bill paying do no wrong look good, when in fact i make alot of money on people that want to face the fact that they want to face up to there responsibilities. I think perhaps that everyone of you are just a portion of the american way that think that not paying your bills is the only way-way to go teach all your children to be debtors like yourself so my children can make the bucks off of you-keep up the good job and enjoy your crappy credit and i will be thinking of all of you as i am going to work behind the wheel of my paid off mercedes while on the phone planning my next vacation somewhere-thank you keep sending my paycheck......
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COLLECTION MANAGER
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:12 am Subject: |
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Wow, I needed a good laugh this morning. 
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NotsoLucky
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:45 am Subject: |
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| Quote: | | THANK YOU KEEP SENDING MY PAYCHECK...... |
You're welcome.[/quote]
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Jessi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:34 am Subject: |
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It's evident from the time that message was posted that this guy doesn't sleep at night! LOL
Those were the longest run-on sentences I've ever seen![/quote]
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erzeke1
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:48 am Subject: BCR - got the wrong person this time! |
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To collection manager... You are so unbelievably obtuse in your thinking, that it defies reality. Your company harasses me 5 times a day trying to reach someone that doesn't live in the home never has, and to the best of my knowledge, doesn't even exist. For the first several weeks of the calls, I was pleasant but firm in trying to get you to stop calling, and now I've registered complaints with the FTC and am considering a lawsuit in Florida. I work from home and your harrassing calls interfere with my ability to complete my work. Perhaps you can save your company a lot of $$$ and aggravation in a lawsuit by giving me the appropriate steps to effectively end the harrassment. I know that you have the right to "encourage" true offenders to pay up, but you are calling a house with two women and a small child looking for a man. How dumb is that? I'd think all your highly compensated employees would do better calling the right people, don't you?
Also, Virginia Legal... Any advice on the above referenced item? You are AWESOME to post here and help so many people, and at the very least, make us feel so not all alone in this!!
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barbara
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:07 am Subject: BCR |
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I have a California exchange and they say they are BCR. The # is 619-374-0126 also an 888-276-8572 goes direct to them Does the VA. Attorney practice in Maryland? I ould like a contact# if you do.
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HS125
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