[Virginia-Legal-Defense]

First, I'd point out that something has probably already gone to the credit reporting agencies before you get a demand letter from a debt collector (the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act uses that term, rather than "collection agency"). So there's no real issue about your credit having been tarnished. That places you in a weaker position with respect to other lenders so they can attack you more successfully, so the first thing they do is to tarnish your credit.

The real question is whether you owe the money. The second question is who owns the debt. Second question first: if you have something in writing from the original creditor (caution, sometimes these letters are sent out by those who want to collect on the debt posing as the original creditor, so check with the original creditor to make sure it's valid if you get one), telling you to pay some third party, then you're justified in honoring that transaction. Debt can be bought and sold like any other commodity. Usually, though, the original creditor doesn't bother to inform the debtors because they don't want to go to the expense of proper notification, and having gotten the money they expect to get already, they no longer care about that. The problem for the consumer is that if you pay the wrong person, it's your tough luck - you could end up paying twice. Those who buy up poorly performing debt portfolios are usually in the debt collection business and are treated as such by the fdcpa. So unless and until you get something you can verify from the original creditor telling you to pay someone else, only pay the original creditor. You can't go wrong doing that, and the fact that you've paid is an absolute defense. If someone reports you to a credit bureau after you've paid, that's a violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and you should sue them. If the debt's been sold and you pay the original creditor, that's between the original creditor and the person they contracted with - not your problem.

Now the first question, whether you owe the money. If you owe the money and you can pay, pay the original creditor subject to what I said above. Use a payment method you can track, like a cashier's check from a bank - they often won't send a personal check back. If you get sued, you can have a subpoena issued to the bank to provide documentation you can use in court to prove you paid. Also send the check via registered mail return receipt required. If you don't get the green signature card back in the mail, complain to the Post Office and make them confirm delivery. (Some of these large institutions seem to have some kind of deal with the local post office such that they don't bother with signature cards.) You can send registered mail with a delivery confirmation, and I'd recommend that. You can also get a certificate of mailing, which you can use in any court in the U.S. to prove you mailed something. Have a witness document what you mailed and when you mailed it. You can't have too much evidence.

If you don't believe you owe the full amount demanded, but do owe something, pay the something with a written explanation of why you don't owe the remainder demanded. If you are paying in full, write that phrase, "payment in full" in the memo portion of the check. If they cash it, it's conclusive proof of satisfaction of the debt under the Uniform Commercial Code (which varies somewhat from state to state). Further, in many states, a valid good faith offer of payment in currency or something equivalent (such as a cashier's check drawn on a bank) is "tender of payment" and although that's not a substitute for payment, it means the same thing because the creditor made the choice not to accept the payment when offered (involves legal theories of "estoppel" and "waiver"). If you tried to pay and they wouldn't accept it, they can't come after you later on the theory that you didn't pay.

If you don't owe the money you can and should send a letter right away telling them so. If a debt collector gets involved, send them a demand for verification letter (you can do that even if you haven't paid in full, but don't owe the total amount demanded). I've posted an example of such a letter in another forum with suggestions for its use.

Ultimately, you may end up going to court. If you don't owe the money you can file an action for a declaratory judgment right away to protect your credit. It will be incumbent upon you to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that you don't owe the money. (Evidence generally means oral testimony under oath - documents and things introduced into evidence only support the testimony.) But if you're successful, you'll have a written order from a judge you can send to the collection agencies.

Or you can wait and see if they sue you. Meanwhile, you can do what you can to keep your credit untarnished by getting copies of your credit reports and sending the credit reporting agencies letters explaining that you don't owe the money and that the people who say you do are mistaken.

As to the issue of documentation - if you have sent a debt collector a denial of claim / demand for verification of debt letter pursuant to the FDCPA, then they have to send you something that meets the legal requirements for establishing that (1) there is a valid debt and (2) that you're the debtor. If they don't do that, then they can't take any further action to collect on the debt. That doesn't have anything to do with the documentation required to show that you should pay the debt collector rather than the original creditor. That should come from the original creditor, not the debt collector. If you owe money and a debt collector provides you with verification in response to your demand for verification, you can and should still pay the original creditor, not the debt collector, unless you've been told by the original creditor to do so. Note that one of the things the debt collector has to tell you in response to the demand for verification is the identity of the original creditor.

Most of the time, they use some kind of code that's not a valid name for any entity. I recently saw one that identified the creditor as "ATT WIRELESS SVC - 2 - 5GS" or some thing like that. That doesn't identify anyone. It has to be the true and correct legal name, which you can check on by calling the secretary of state, the state corporation commission, or whatever it's called, in the state where the creditor is chartered. As a hint, though, if it doesn't contain terms like "Co., company, limited, ltd., llc, lp, inc., N.A., or incorporated", it's not a valid company name. If the letter you get doesn't identify someone real, you can't possibly owe money to them. If they don't identify the original creditor in the response to a demand for verification, then there's no verification of a valid debt.

Ultimately, this process is governed by what people are willing to sue over and when they're likely to defend themselves in court. People who are in financial trouble are the least able to protect themselves. That's why tv-advertising tax lawyers like Roni Lynn Deutch can make so much money. It is my opinion that they can take the little money poor people have left, do nothing, and let the IRS grind the debtors up, and the lawyer will have gotten all the money, and done nothing to help the debtor who is left with no recourse because of his weakened condition.

I'm defending in a case right now where a credit card company says my client owes them money, but they have no documentation to show that he ever used the card, applied for the card, or requested the card; there's no written contract or agreement to pay interest. They file suit against such people because most of them will pay something without the cost of litigation, or if they go to court, they give up and get a judgment against them. Most people lose because they take the middle ground - but that's like Britian's policy of placating Hitler prior to WW II.

My suggestion, either protect your credit by paying what they want to the original creditor promptly, or dig in your heels and do what's necessary to protect your rights, and sue the debt collectors if they violate the FDCPA or the FCRA, even if (especially if) they're a law firm.

[imkimssister]

After trying repeatedly to get actual information of the debt from the collection agency, nothing helps. In such cases, what should a consumer do?

This is exactly what I'm going through. Ask collection agency for validation, don't get it-hear nothing back. Months go by, hear from a new collection agency, ask them for validation, don't get it-hear nothing. They pass it on to new collection agency. These accounts were getting passed around like hot cakes, all I had to do was ask for validation, and here we go again. The same song and dance. I am interested in taking care of these debts and by no means are saying they aren't mine. But they have been through the hands of so many different agencies that I feel I have the right to ask for validation first. Finally after not hearing from anyone, I wrote the original creditor to try to get something settled. They wrote back and said they were 'no longer servicing these accounts'and to talk to collection agencies. well, isn't that like a catch 22? collection agencies aren't talking either. I've disputed with the credit bureaus, they come back and say the debts are mine. so in other words, someone is validating to the bureaus but not to me when I ask for it. Also, none of the collection agencies are on my credit report--only the original creditors (even though some apparently have been sold), so that also sheds another whole new light on my situation.

And this is my delema. No one will talk to me about these debts. Its kinda like when we were kids and asking our parents if we could go to the movies. Mom says ask Dad, go to Dad, he says to ask mom. Only in my case, Dads not saying anything, I go ask mom, she says to ask Dad and Dads still not saying anything.
Shirley

[Virginia-Legal-Defense]

If you can figure out what you really owe the original creditor (since they haven't sent you anything in writing saying they've sold the debt), why not send them a cashier's check as I described in my earlier post, this topic, with "paid in full" on the memo line - make a copy of the check first and follow the witness and mailing instructions.

Note that, in order to be effective, the check has to be mailed to the address that the creditor identifies as for "other correspondence" and if there isn't one, send it to the main company street address addressed to President.

Then, if you get any further demand letters from debt collectors, send them a copy of the check along with your demand letter.

[TMD]

What if the account has been charged off, but it keeps going to different collection agencies and you are not exactly sure who has it? My Sears card got charged off, went to one company who called me, so I called Sears and verified that the account was in fact charged off and sold...but now I am getting a letter from a completely different CA. How do I know who to pay? I am going to have the money in June to pay off all my debts, and I am not even sure who has them anymore, they switch CA's so much. My Sears account only got charged off 3 months ago, and has already gone to two different CA's. What should I do in June to figure out who to pay? I have some of my accounts with a lawyer who does debt settlement, do I need to worry whether or not they will pay the right people, or are they probably good at verifying who they are paying?

[imkimssister]

I'm not sure who to negotiate with either---mine have been passed around so much and once I ask for validation I don't hear anything for a while until someone else comes along. right now, its in the 'not hearing' from anyone stage. I wrote the original creditor 'dell financial' and they say they can't help because they are no longer servicing my accounts? There are four accounts, I've noticed that credit bureaus UPDATED and now are reporting three of the accounts as '0' balance and have them listed as 'payment after charge off'. Does this mean that the accounts have been sold? because thats how I take it. I haven't made any payments on them in quite some time so I know they don't mean that they received a payment from me after charge off. I don't know what to do. collection agencies aren't on report--although as I said, they won't answer validation requests so I'm not sure who has them. I have been at this for ONE YEAR now, trying to get dell financial and wells fargo to talk to me.

With me, its not a matter of just writing a check and paying them off. I have to work it out in payments---as many of my other creditors and collection agencies are doing with me (after charge offs). And I need to talk to someone and get them to agree to my payment arrangement before just sending money because this wells fargo account has already burned me in that area. So I learned the hard way, talk to someone first---get an agreement before just mailing monthly payments. since I don't know who's holding the accounts, I can't actually do this. Dell won't help me, they say they no longer are serving the accounts and wells fargo, well, they just flat out won't answer. any advice from you on these???
thanks, shirley

[Virginia-Legal-Defense]

(1) It's important that you got something in writing from the original creditor - words in the air (or over the phone) are gone as soon as spoken. What someone tells you on the phone can only confirm that what you got in writing was for real. If the original creditor never sent you something in writing telling you whom to pay, then you are obligated to pay the original creditor. Only they can release you from your obligation to them. If they sold the debt and failed to give you proper notice, that's their fault, not yours, and it's between them and whomever they sold the debt to. I suggest sending your payment to the original creditor using the cashier's check method I described in another post. Pick a number that you think is a fair deal and send them a check in that amount with the notation "paid in full". Please read the instructions I gave for doing that in an earlier post. The original creditor (or whomever they told you in writing to pay) is likely to go ahead and cash it, because it's just more money to them, and they don't care anymore. If they do, that's an "accord and satisfaction by instrument" and it means you don't owe anyone on that debt. Here's the short answer: it's not your job to figure out whom to negotiate with. The person to whom you owe money has a duty to inform you if they sell the debt to someone else, and if (when) they fail to do that, it's just too bad for that other person. If you want to offer ten cents on the dollar to settle the claim, send them a cashier's check for the offered amount and see what happens.

(2) If your attorneys fail to get proper authorization to make payments to the correct parties, then the attorneys are liable to you for the malpractice. They're likely to be doing it correctly, although lawyers are like any other profession: some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average. You should be getting periodic status reports from them, and should call them as often as you need to to get answers to your questions. It's your dime, they're working for you. They have an ethical obligation to tell you what's going on in language you can understand.

(3) A zero balance after a charge off means that, as an accrual basis taxpayer, the creditor has elected to deduct the amount of the debt as a bad, uncollectable debt from their taxes. They had to report the debt as income when the debt was accrued, so they can take an offset from their current tax basis to compensate for having already paid taxes on money they're never going to get. That notation on your credit report means that you're the sort of person who generates uncollectable bad debts.

(4) Don't take their word for how much you owe. You almost never owe as much interest as they claim. It requires a written contract in most states to charge interest at more than the statutory amount (12 % in Virginia and South Dakota). If they didn't respond to your demand for verification, it's because they can't produce a written contract authorizing the collection costs, attorneys' fees, and exorbitant interest and fees. If they can't produce the document you signed, there's no legal basis for the imposition of those charges ("usury"), and under federal law regulating banks and banking, you're entitled to twice what you've paid in interest back from them.

I too rcvd call from this # from interstate wire compliance bureau but he said his name was don freeman. As i have posted previously he threatened arrest, but when my attorney called him back him hung up.

[Not so Lucky]

That is the way they operate. Rumor has it that this company is associated with Ellis Crosby. When they find out you have an attorney, turn tuck their tails and run for cover to figure out their next move.

Veronica
To protect your self call your bank and close your account they can alter the amounts change the names of there company and take out when ever

I recieved another call from Don Freedman again at work threating me I had enough I called the trade commission at 1-877-382-4357 and filed the complaint I urge anyone that has recieved a call from this person or interstate compliance bureau file a complaint with the federal trade commision ASAP

[jj]

I would also call your state attorney general's office

JJ
thank you for the advise
the state Atty in his state or mine

[LCW]

"Stone Rockwell" oh please, like that isn't an alias... Interstate Wire Compliance is the latest incarnation of Ellis Crosby and Associates.

Tiffy; Contact YOUR state Attorney General, contacting the AG in their state as well surely couldn't hurt.

Alex Devine and Johnnie Blake
866-201-4603 extention 215 Alex and 207 Johnnie
They indicated that brielightigations (1st phone call) is bogus and now this. It is friday and they threatened me with litigation on Monday. I had red flags every where. I received information from a company in writing that someone had my information fraudulently from their company and now this. What in the world is this country coming to????

I received the same call and I grateful for all of you guys info, because I wanted to know myself who were these calls coming from

Hello-I got a call from 410-807-4503 stating that they are teh crimal division from US National bank that i owe for a payday loan in 2005. They refuse to give me anything in writing and they are threatening to arrest me for fraud.
I reverse number lookup and got the phone company which they don't have any record of them. When i call them, they won't give me there name.