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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:46 am Subject:

Keep us informed Janet & Elle.

Elle · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:15 am Subject:

Ok, gang. I called. Janet was true to her word.

It was a very different experience from dealing with Mr. David. She was very kind and listened to what I had to say. I am going to fax her my supporting documentation by early next week, and once she receives it, she will review it and we'll take it from there. She gave me no reason to doubt her sincerity. Hopefully, I can put this issue to rest now. Thank you, Janet! Smile

And thanks to the people on this Board who have been supportive and informative with regard to this issue. It's good to have a place like this to come to in times like these...where you can vent and ask questions (and get answers)!

Good luck to everyone...I will keep you posted on my progress... Smile

Sandy S · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:34 am Subject:

Janet,

It's fine if you think that the BBB is not that good. I can tell you from personal experience that the BBB is a very powerful tool for the consumer in dealing with companies that do not conduct their business in accordance with the law. Below you will find info about the complaint process. A proper response to my complaint would have been validation of my supposed debt. Just to clarify for you, my supposed debt was in relation to bogus 900 calls placed by a trojan dialer.

From the BBB:

When a BBB receives a complaint, we present the complaint to the business and request its assistance in working out the problem with the unhappy customer. Most companies are grateful for the opportunity to resolve problems with their customers since it often means their patronage will be preserved.

BBB members agree to respond to consumer complaints presented by the BBB, and lose their membership if they do not. Most other companies, regardless of whether they are BBB members, also cooperate with the BBB.

However, some companies do not want to work with the Bureau and/or their customers to resolve complaints. Since the BBB is not a government or law enforcement agency, the Bureau cannot force a reply from a company; nor can it administer sanctions. However, a company's unwillingness to respond to the BBB or a customer will be noted in the company's reliability report the BBB provides to the public. The customer is free to pursue other alternatives such as legal action.

I'm sorry, did I miss your reply to jedijeff13's question?

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:58 am Subject:

A hardy yelp to Janet. Thank you for doing something with honor and respect. All this time, we had asked for something this simple.

Elle - please keep us informed. If this is a real, verified debt with this company, we should let people know that there is an avenue they can go through for resolution.

Elle · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:12 pm Subject:

I will, Jeff. Thanks! Smile

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:26 pm Subject:

Elle,
I'm glad you had a good experience and do let us know how it's going...Don't forget to get everything in writing, including validation if you owe any money. Whatever you do, do not send a dime until you do.
Janet..
Certainly appreciate your posts and your help with these people. As you can see, most of us here are not trying to run from our responsibilites, but just want a fair and reasonable effort on both parties to resolve these issues.
With all the scams out there, it's not unconscionable that suspicions are raised.
I'm curious though...Do you know if your firm is licensed to collect in the US? I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but honestly, do you know? If so, is this information easily accesible.
Thanks again

Mr. David · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:26 pm Subject:

I AM GOING TO CONTINUE POSTING THIS UNTIL IT GETS ANSWERED.

CHARLINE and/or JANET THIS IS FOR BOTH OF YOU, SO PLEASE, EITHER ONE OF YOU or BOTH, FEEL FREE TO ANSWER:

(Again, these two questions have been side-stepped and avoided every time asked, as evidenced above)
_____________________________________________________

(1) Why is it that "Mr David" refuses to send me validation of this supposed debt I owe? Are you telling me that there only certain people at your office (e.g., Charline) that are allowed to send such validation??

(2) There are specific Canadian and US laws which regulate the collection of debt . . . why is it that your company feels that it is unnecessary and okay not to follow these rules and regulations?? The statutory procedures for debt collection is quite easy and painless...it is not really that big of a hassle . . why is it then that The Law Office of Paul Kupferstein and Associates refuses to go by book???

______________________________________________________

Charline · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:33 pm Subject:

Mr. David, you can continue to post until your hands fall off, you need to contact either Janet or myself and identify yourself. Once we have an opportunity to review your file we will be able to answer your question.
The law office practices debt recoveries fully within the law, for some reason you feel that this was not the case in your experience. I am not able to confirm nor deny your accusations without first reviewing your file. Perhaps validation was provided, I have no way of knowing without knowing who you are.

janet · Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:28 am Subject:

First of all I know nothing of the supposed 900 debt. I have never seen such debt. I answer the question that we put to me with the best of my knowledge. I am not a lawyer so I cannot answer legal question. I will try to help people resolve the issues of debt as I am trying to do with Elle and what I did for Jenna. But answering question that I have no idea about would not benefit anyone. Mr. David if you have a debt that you have been called on. Please call me and I will try to help get you the information that you seek that pertains to you and only you. I can not give information on other people. If they choose to share there info with this site that is their right. I will speak to a few people next week to seek the information that you are asking time and time again. I will be in the office for about 5 more hours than I will be back in the office on Tuesday.

Intimidated · Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:39 am Subject:

Mr. David, please just give them a call and get this over with and report back to everyone either way if they do hold true to their words and provide validation.

Looking forward to Elle's response . . .

Janet · Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:49 am Subject:

SAndy I will respond to all of the BBB in the future just to keep on top of all of this stuff. I just know what it was like listening to my ex boss complain time and time again to them knowly that he was ruining a good business name over bull. But I will answer all future letters. Jeff I hope I answered your questions. And that you for the nice comment.

Sandy S · Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:37 pm Subject:

If I missed your answer tto Jeff's questions, I apologize. I don't believe you have answered all of his questions. Jeff asked:

"Since you are the office manager, can you verify that Mr. Kupferstein and Liability Solutions is registered and certified to collect debts in the United States and show proof?"

"If you can't answer it, can you direct me to the person that would be able to answer that? "

Guest · Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:59 pm Subject:

Contacting an indebted consumer (by any medium) and letting them know about the debt is according to the fdcpa "debt validation"!

809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

Sandy S · Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:56 pm Subject:

Nice try. Read what you pasted in your post. In my case Mr. David only gave me the (1)amount and the (2)creditor I supposedly owed money to. I guess he didn't feel it was necessary to add 3, 4, and 5 in his initial communication because it was more fun to tell me I would be sued the following week for thousands of dollars. It has been more than five days since his original communication and no written notice containing 3, 4, and 5 has ever been received. Debt not validated!

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:45 am Subject:

"Written" is the key word. It is the word that appears in both the US & Canadian version of the laws to protect consumers.

If I ever GOT a written validation, I may have paid some money. Then again, since my research proved the debt to fraud, I can see why I never got written proof, only threats.

Sandy S · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:10 pm Subject:

Jeff,

It seems the Law Office has distanced itself from the 900# scam they were attempting to collect for. It is sad that they collected any money for the bogus calls but that is what they were paid to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Law Office because the treatment we were subjected to was unethical at best.

Early on in this saga I contacted a lawyer and he said that if the Law Office ever did follow through and take us to court that they would have to prove we actually placed the 900# calls and they would have to provide an electronic signature proving acceptance of the terms of the 900# calls. I believe that the lack of such electronic signatures may have steered the Law Office away from attempting to collect on these bogus debts.

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