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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:48 pm |
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Took out a couple payday loans($1,050 total) to cover expenses related to moving into my new place, including the first month's rent. Problem is that the fees are kicking my butt. I bring home around 300 a week. 120 of that goes straight to the companies in the form of two sixty dollar payments. I hold myself at fault for this, but I could use a hand in getting out of this pit.
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murdough2000
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:58 pm |
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HI...welcome to the forum. Can you please give us a little more info so we can better help you to decide what to do. What state do you live in? Please list the name of the ipdl and the amount you borrowed followed by the exact amount you have paid so far.
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Morningstarr430
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 2337
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:10 pm |
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I live in New Hampshire. The loans are as follows:
Loan Point USA/Geneva Roth: $200/$120 paid
Instant Loans Now: $200/$180 paid
ThinkCash: $250/first payment on 8/10
SJM Marketing/SSM Group: $200/$60 paid
500FastCash: $200/$60 paid
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murdough2000
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
Debtcc Points: 172
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:44 pm |
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| Quote: | Legal Status: Legal
Citation:
36 N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 399-A:1 et seq.
Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $500
Loan Term: 7-30 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: Not Specified (After default: 6% per year)
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit
APR for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit
Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: Not Specified
Rollovers Permitted: None (cannot refinance, renew, extend; borrowers can renew to obtain additional cash but prior loan must be paid in full from proceeds of new loan and marked as such)
Cooling-off Period:
Repayment Plan:
Collection Limits:
Collection Fees:
Criminal Action: Prohibited
Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: New Hampshire State Banking Department
Address: 64B Old Suncook Road Concord NH 03301
Phone: (603) 271-3561
Fax: (603) 271-0750
Regulatory Contact: Mary Jurta,, Director, Consumer Credit Division
http://www.nh.gov/banking/ |
Rollovers/extensions are prohibited in your state. Which is what the pdl's are doing by charging you their "fees". I'm confused about your state's finance rate and fees, as it states "not specified". It's also stating "no limit" on a finance charge for a 14 day loan. Hopefully someone who can decipher the law better can come along. At least I can tell you that the pdl's are violating the rollover/extesions and that criminal action is prohibited.
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cannr
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:56 pm |
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Cannr....would that mean they could charge whatever they want...but after someone defaults it is set at 6%??
_________________
If you think you can, you can...if you think you can't, your probably right...
http://lifewithyourcredit.yesdebtfree.org/
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Morningstarr430
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Posts: 2337
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:01 pm |
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The way I'm reading it (and I'm no expert) is that they don't have limits. So, basically, it seems as though they're saying the pdl's can pretty much charge whatever they want. I would assume that is IF they are licensed/legal. The 6% part, I'm reading as "per year", so not total, but for the entire year.  Like I said, I'm no expert, but they don't have any limits set as to what the pdl's can charge. No maximum. I don't like their state pld law!
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cannr
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:11 am |
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They don't have any limits on what they can charge, and they can reloan to you as long as the old loan is paid off with the new loan. So the rollover thing is a bit tricky. I think technically they could say that the old loan is being paid off with the new loan, and get around that restriction, but I don't know.
I'm going to do some quick looking around and see what all I can find.
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:17 am |
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This is from NH consumer credit law regarding small lenders:
| Quote: | 399-A:13 Provisions Applicable to Payday Loan Lenders. –
I. Each lender shall conspicuously post in its licensed location a schedule of interest charges, with examples using a $300 loan payable in 14 days and 30 days. Payday loans shall incur interest only. No other charges or fees shall apply to or be collected on payday loans.
II. Each payday loan shall be evidenced by a written loan agreement, which shall be signed by the borrower and a person authorized by the lender to sign such agreements and dated the same day the loan is made and disbursed. The loan agreement shall set forth, at a minimum:
(a) The principal amount of the loan.
(b) The interest charged.
(c) The annual percentage rate, which shall be stated using that term, applicable to the transaction calculated in accordance with Federal Reserve Board Regulation Z.
(d) Evidence of receipt from the borrower of a check, dated the same date, as security for the loan, stating the amount of the check.
(e) An agreement by the lender not to present the check for payment or deposit until a specified maturity date, which date shall be at least 7 days and not more than 30 days after the date the loan is made and after which date interest shall not accrue at a greater rate than 6 percent per year.
(f) An agreement by the lender that the borrower shall have the right to cancel the loan transaction at any time before the close of business of the next business day following the date of the transaction by paying to the lender, in the form of cash or other funds instrument, the amount advanced to the borrower.
(g) An agreement that the borrower shall have the right to prepay the loan in full or in part prior to maturity by paying the lender the principal amount advanced and any accrued and unpaid interest.
III. The lender shall give a duplicate original of the loan agreement to the borrower at the time of the transaction.
IV. A lender shall not obtain any agreement from the borrower:
(a) Giving the lender or any third person power of attorney or authority to confess judgment for the borrower;
(b) Authorizing the lender or any third party to bring suit against the borrower in a court outside the state; or
(c) Waiving any right the borrower has under this chapter.
V. A lender shall not require, or accept, more than one check from the borrower as security for any loan at any one time.
VI. A lender shall not cause any person to be obligated to the lender in any capacity at any time in the principal amount of more than $500.
VII. A lender shall not refinance, renew, or extend any loan.
VIII. A lender shall not cause a borrower to be obligated upon more than one loan at any time for the purpose of increasing charges payable by the borrower.
IX. A lender shall not require or accept a post-dated check as security for, or in payment of, a loan.
X. A lender shall not threaten, or cause to be instigated, criminal proceedings against a borrower if a check given as security for a loan is dishonored.
XI. A lender shall not take an interest in any property other than a check payable to the lender as security for a loan.
XII. A lender shall not make a loan to a borrower to enable the borrower to pay for any other product or service sold at the lender's business location.
XIII. Loan proceeds shall be disbursed in cash or by the lender's business check. No fee shall be charged by the lender or an affiliated check cashier for cashing a loan proceeds check.
XIV. A check given as security for a loan shall not be endorsed to a third party.
XV. Upon receipt of a check given as security for a loan, the lender shall stamp the check with an endorsement stating ""This check is being negotiated as part of a payday loan pursuant to RSA 399-A, and any holder of this check takes it subject to all claims and defenses of the maker.
XVI. Before entering into a payday loan, the lender shall provide each borrower with a pamphlet, in form consistent with regulations promulgated by the commissioner, explaining in plain language the rights and responsibilities of the borrower and providing a toll-free number in the banking department for assistance with complaints.
XVII. Before disbursing funds pursuant to a payday loan, a lender shall provide a clear and conspicuous printed notice to the borrower indicating that a payday loan is not intended to meet long-term financial needs and that the borrower should use a payday loan only to meet short-term cash needs.
XVIII. A borrower shall be permitted to make partial payments, in increments of not less than $50 on the loan at any time prior to maturity without charge. The lender shall give the borrower signed, dated receipts for each payment made, which shall state the balance due on the loan. |
Last edited by goudah2424 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:26 am |
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
Debtcc Points: 111343
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:19 am |
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And this:
| Quote: | 399-A:2 License Required. –
I. No person shall engage in the business of making small loans, title loans, or payday loans in this state or with consumers located in this state, without first obtaining a license from the commissioner as provided in this chapter.
II. Each such license shall terminate on December 31st. Each license shall remain in full force and effect until surrendered, revoked, suspended, or terminated.
III. This chapter shall not apply to any person lawfully engaged in business as permitted by the laws of this state or of the United States relative to banks, trust companies, insurance companies, savings or building and loan associations, or credit unions, or to loans made by them, nor shall this chapter apply to any person engaged solely in the business of making loans for educational purposes or to the loans made by such persons.
IV. Any person not exempt under paragraph III, and the several members, officers, directors, agents and employees thereof, who shall willfully violate or participate in the violation of any provisions of paragraph I shall be guilty of a misdemeanor if a natural person, or guilty of a felony if any other person. If in the making or collection of a loan the licensee violates paragraph I of this section, the loan contract shall be void and the lender shall have no right to collect, receive, or retain any principal, interest, or charges whatsoever. |
Last edited by goudah2424 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:27 am |
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:26 am |
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And this:
| Quote: | 399-A:18 Penalties. –
I. Any person and the several members, officers, directors, agents, and employees thereof who shall knowingly violate any provision of this chapter, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor if a natural person, or guilty of a felony if any other person.
II. Any person violating the provisions of RSA 399-A:12 through RSA 399-A:15 or engaging in the business of a small loan lender, payday loan lender, or title loan lender without first obtaining a license if a license is required under this chapter shall be barred from recovering any finance charge, delinquency, or collection charge on the contract.
III. Any person who knowingly violates any rule or order of the commissioner may, upon notice and opportunity for hearing, except where another penalty is expressly provided, be subject to suspension or revocation of any registration or license, or an administrative fine not to exceed $2,500 for each violation in lieu of or in addition to such suspension or revocation as may be applicable under this title for violation of the provision to which such rule or order relates. Each of the acts specified shall constitute a separate violation.
IV. Any person who negligently violates any rule or order of the commissioner may, upon notice and opportunity for hearing, except where another penalty is expressly provided, be subject to suspension, revocation, or denial of any registration or license, including the forfeiture of any application fee, or an administrative fine not to exceed $1,500 for each violation in lieu of or in addition to such suspension or revocation as may be applicable under this title for violation of the provision to which such rule or order relates. Each of the acts specified shall constitute a separate violation.
V. Any person who, either knowingly or negligently, violates any provision of this chapter may, upon notice and opportunity for hearing, and in addition to any such other penalty provided for by law, be subject to suspension, revocation, or denial of any registration or license, including forfeiture of any application fee, or an administrative fine not to exceed $2,500, or both. Each of the acts specified shall constitute a separate violation, and each such administrative action or fine may be imposed in addition to any criminal or civil penalties imposed.
VI. Every person who directly or indirectly controls a person liable under this section, every partner, principal executive officer, or director of such person, every person occupying a similar status or performing a similar function, every employee of such person who materially aids in the act constituting the violation, and every licensee or person acting as a common law agent who materially aids in the acts constituting the violation, either knowingly or negligently, may, upon notice and opportunity for hearing, and in addition to any other penalty provided for by law, be subject to suspension, revocation, or denial of any registration or license, including the forfeiture of any application fee, or an administrative fine not to exceed $2,500, or both. Each of the acts specified shall constitute a separate violation, and such administrative action or fine may be imposed in addition to any criminal or civil penalties imposed. No person shall be liable under this paragraph who shall sustain the burden of proof that such person did not know, and in the exercise of reasonable care could not have known, of the existence of facts by reason of which the liability is alleged to exist.
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Please note that in NH is states in the law that if a business isnt' licensed then they can't collect any interest or fees. It doesn't say that they loan is uncollectable in entirety. So those that read other posts saying that if the company isn't licensed you don't have to pay back a dime legally, please check with your state first. In some states that is true, the loan is considered void and uncollectible, but that is not the case in all states
Last edited by goudah2424 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:22 am |
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goudah2424
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 7974
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:43 am |
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so in other words, I'm pretty much screwed.
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murdough2000
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
Debtcc Points: 172
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:26 am |
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No!!! Not at all - I've been comminucating with the NH banking dept this morning. Here are some emails I have back and forth from them:
| Quote: | Hello,
I was wondering if you could tell me if internet based payday loan businesses need to be licensed in NH to lend to NH consumers? Would they need to follow the laws of NH regarding rollovers and such, or would they need to follow the laws of the state they are licensed in?
Thanks!
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From: Shepard, James [mailto:jshepard@banking.state.nh.us]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:36 AM
To:
Subject: FW: Payday loan question
Yes. All small loan lending with consumers located in NH requires licensure. In addition, payday and title lenders must maintain an office in the state of NH which is accessible to consumers.
James Shepard
Staff Attorney -- Banking Department
------------------------------------------------------
From:
[mailto:
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:38 AM
To: Shepard, James
Subject: RE: Payday loan question
So if they must have an office in NH, does that mean that internet payday loan companies that don't have any physical location in NH are operating illegally?
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From: Shepard, James [mailto:jshepard@banking.state.nh.us]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:43 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Payday loan question
Your question presumes that what they are offering is a payday loan which is very tightly defined. However, the more salient question is are they licensed at all? We regularly take action against internet lenders who are not licensed in NH. You can check the list of licensed lenders at: nh.gov/banking/consumer.html Scroll down to "Licensee Listings" The penalty for not being licensed is an absolute bar to collecting any of the money leant.
James Shepard
Staff Attorney -- Banking Department |
So I was wrong - If the company isn't licensed they cannot collect. Period.
I still don't think he really answered wether or not a internet based company had to be licensed by NH, because he states that they have to have a physical location in NH to get a license. So I will keep working on nailing that down, but according to what he said they are going after internet lenders!
So please, file complaints against all the companies! ASAP!
Last edited by goudah2424 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:36 am |
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goudah2424
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 7974
Debtcc Points: 111343
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:34 am |
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Again, I just want to say that you are not screwed at all. When I was going through my pdl mess, I lived in a state with very similar laws - No limits! But they do have to be licensed. And that is where you will fight them.
Odds are very good that none of the companies you are dealing with will be licensed anywhere, much less in NH. Since NH law states that unlicensed companies cannot collect on their loans, you legally speaking would not owe them anything.
But file complaints! It sounds like your state may actually go after internet companies.
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
Debtcc Points: 111343
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:48 am |
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Also, I have to add, this is a really great response to get from a state. Most of the time they will say that internet companies are too hard to investigate, and that they will help mediate but not really go after the company. The fact that NH says they do go after these internet companies is a really great thing! You may get some really good help once you file those complaints!
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
Debtcc Points: 111343
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:35 pm |
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As far as the rollover issue - There is sort of a loophole. They are allowed to use the proceeds of one loan to pay another. So the pdl could be writing the contract out in such as way as the "new" loan pays the "old" loan, even though you are only paying the interest. Does that make sense?
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goudah2424
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Posts: 7974
Debtcc Points: 111343
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