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#18
01-08-2009, 08:55 AM
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Kind of...lol
There are a whole boat load of things that were intended for the greater good / to help the consumer that are abused. PDLs are just one of those things. I think most people live and learn and the PDL cycle is just one of those lessons we are here to learn about. I have been in and out and in and out time and again of store fronts. I just found this board and was so glad I have. Not once in my travels to the numerous store fronts did I see one flier or sign or statement about an EPP. You know why? They don't want me to get an EPP. They want me to get another loan and pay the interest/fee. Not one time did any customer service person say "Hey nohiogal we see you in here every two weeks for the last year, did you know we have a payment plan to help you?" I mean there are a lot of alcoholics out there. If they go to an Alcoholic Message help board and say that alcohol is evil would you go in and tell them it isn't? It is to THEM. Just like PDLs you won't see AA Meeting schedules at the liquor store and you won't see the cashier mentioning that they buy to much booze. My point is that yes I may have abused them and maybe I am the minority but the PDLs do nothing to help and in fact will encourage you to take out a larger loan then you even asked for just because your paycheck indicates that you "qualify" for it. You say that people that use it again and again are the minority but I have to say over the last two years I saw the same faces standing in line with me at the same store getting the same loan over and over again. A new face was rare and 99.9% of the time that new face was applying for a loan only to become a regular like the rest of us. Maybe you are right that used as intended they are not a pit of despair that most of us on here have come to look at them as. Maybe it is our own fault and we are weak and do not know how to budget our finances. I will give you that, at least in my case. I don't pretend to speak for others. But the fact is that I came here for help. I do look at them as evil just like the booze is to the drunk that seeks help. I wonder how many social drinkers wander into a Alcoholic Message board and tell them that booze is good and helps people but only they have the problem and calling it evil is not fair to the rest of the responsible drinkers? Now excess payday loans may not be an addiction but the same results apply when it comes to feeling there is no way out of the cycle. You are correct that this is a heated discussion. I will get off my soap box now. 
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#19
01-08-2009, 09:19 AM
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Very nice points and well taken...
You are totally wrong about one thing, this is not a "heated discussion". It is probably one of the best "Point/Counter-Point" discussions that I have seen on this board. I am a firm believer that there are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the right side. You see things from one point and I see them from another, when in reality the truth lies in the middle. We need to have these discussion, share the facts and allow the posters to digest the information and form thier opinion.
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#21
01-08-2009, 09:52 AM
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Well I am glad this does not seem heated. I thought because of the comment that PDL Owner made...
Quote:
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#22
01-08-2009, 10:06 AM
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nohiogal, I agree with everything you said and I concur with kfstaff...GREAT RESPONSE! you are absolutely right that no one tells you about their EPP to help get you out of debt. They want us to remain in that vicious cycle.
PDL Owner.....would you be willing to put a sign up in your storefronts to inform the consumers that there are other options out there?? I know when I was going through those times of repeatedly writing checks every two weeks, not only did I not know about the EPP until I came to this form but also I was frightened and ashamed to even say anything to anyone about what I was going through. I had no clue that there were other options out there. So how can you get upset with this message board for informing consumers about 'other' options that no one in your industry will reveal to them?? __________________
aminah
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#23
01-08-2009, 10:37 AM
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No need. We discuss many options with customer sand have an open line of communications with a local credit counselor to aid when our customers get into a jam. Being a "for-profit" business, I do not loan to everyone that walks thru my door. There is a process that we go thru to determine the ability payback based on income, bank statement and other outstanding loans. If a customer walks in my door, opens thier checkbook and flips thru a bunch of check carbons to PDL companies, I am going to take a long hard look at their information. It is a no win situation to set someone up to fail.
As for the EPP, if a company is a member of the CFSA, they are required to notify the customer of the EPP. This is written into the Best Practices of the Payday Advance Industry as item 11. If you were doing business with a member store and were not made aware of the program, then report them to the CFSA. As for getting upset, I am not upset about presenting other options. It is my opinion that when people join together to provide guidance, give options or provide direction, it should be accurate information, not unsubstantiated blanket statements. I am actually enjoying this conversation!
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#25
01-08-2009, 10:48 AM
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I am enjoying this as well. It does shed some light on things. I have some questions.
If a customer reloans every single week or every other week for a long period of time, say 6 months or a year, do you encourage them to see the credit counselor? Or since they are repaying the loan do you just take their money on Friday and reloan on Saturday? Do you only recommend the counciling after they are already in trouble? As a payday junky I can tell you that the carbons are not in my checkbook. I would never let you see the other three PDL loans I have out :wink: Lets be honest here. Are you more worried about them failing or you failing to collect? Are you a member of CFSA?
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#26
01-08-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
__________________
aminah
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#27
01-08-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
__________________
aminah
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#28
01-08-2009, 11:01 AM
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I was the original poster and I am not upset about the discussion getting off topic. I am enjoying reading this thread - so post away! Of course if the moderators want to move the discussion, that is their call.
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#29
01-08-2009, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
It got the point I wrote them out before I went in the store. Quite sad really but I can laugh at it now, even if only a little.
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#30
01-08-2009, 11:13 AM
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Uhm just responding to the original question
The question was about this "new" financed loan Advance America has. Well I have it. How I see it is that it's a loan that continually rolls over without the hassle of having to go back to the store and "re-applying". Like the payday loans offered online where they can either withdraw the full amount with fee (and offer it again) or the bi-weekly fee ('cept this is once a month). It's more of a convenience thing and basically all you are paying is interest.
For example; how a car is financed, for the first couple of years all you're paying is interest, THEN you pay it down. PLUS you are not paying every payday but rather once a month. Now I'm not suggesting you run out and get one of these loans because in essence you are just rolling over a loan when you look at the whole picture, but I can't pay off my payday loan and this made sense to me in that 1. I only pay $50/Month to renew as opposed to $75 every payday. 2. I can choose to pay more if I want to pay the thing down and continue to pay the $50. Because the interest rate hasn't changed from the original payday loan equivalent. 3. I don't have to keep running to the bank get my $575 in cash, then stand in line just to get it back and run back to the bank to deposit it before 3 so it can be accounted for before I bounce any checks! Phew...just saying it is exhausting! 4. I really don't have the money to pay off the total amount yet and I was able to consolidate two payday loans into one mess as opposed to two in that I used the extra $250 to pay towards the other one. There are a lot of pros and cons to this method, but like mentioned above, without demand there would be no payday loan service. **gets on soapbox** We have to take responsibility for our actions and stop whining about what has been done to us. It's not our fault we were "let go" from our jobs, (well some of us anyway)  It's not our fault our car had a blow out. It's not our fault we ended up in the hospital and had a million bills to pay. There are a lot of unexpected circumstances out there that in essence had we saved for or strived to save for we could have avoided. But this is neither here nor there. The problem is right now at this moment we are trying to figure out how to get by and our options are limited especially those of us with bad credit. I made bad choices and didn't save and I admit that. Now I have to figure out a way to make it right. It's going to take some time and it's not going to be easy. It might require some heavy sacrifices, but I have to keep moving forward and hope that I have learned my lesson in that I need to start saving for the future and take into account those "unexpected" events. Okay so enough on my soapbox.  The bottom line is this: if there wasn't a problem to begin with, the solution wouldn't be (in our case) payday loans. Newtons 3rd law: For a force (demand) there is always an equal and opposite reaction (payday loans). It is what it is, now work with what you got. WE LET them take advantage of our weakness and then get mad at them for it. This is my way of working around it and MY choice to do this. No one forced me to take a payday loan, I needed the money and because I made bad (or no) choices have to deal with the only options availavle to me (consequences). No matter how ugly it may be. :arrow: :wink:
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#31
01-08-2009, 11:15 AM
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Just wanted to post a follow up to the original topic - the Line of Credit does have a $50 payment for the first payment. However, after that it is $50 plus interest - which on a $750 line of credit would be about $200 - every 25 days. I must give the employee credit - she told me that she always advises people to pay off as much as they can as quickly as possible to save interest. So I totally give her credit for that info.
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#32
01-08-2009, 11:25 AM
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Alright, lets see what we can do with nohiogal's questions...
1. Advising a customer about CCCS? This is a fine line, as you do not want to insult the customer. My staff is pretty strong at developing a "bond" with the customers and are good hearing the signs when a person is getting in over thier head. Typically there will be comments long before the trouble is actually there. When we start to see or hear issues arise, we first start the dialogue about reducing the loan amount each time. The next step is to discuss who they have loans with and make sure that they are aware of the EPP with CFSA members. The final step is to give them our contact at CCCS to set up an appointment. As I say, it is fine line and you cannot jump right in and tell someone that they are an "idiot", go to a credit counselor. As much as you try to avoid that impression, if you start at that point, you cannot change perception. 2. More worried about the customer failing or me failing? Is there a difference? If I loan money to a person that does not have the means to pay me back, I am out the money! I lose. They get caught up in the collection cycle either in small claims or with my collection agency. They lose. There is no "win" with a bad loan, everybody loses. On the other hand, with a good loan, the customer is able to make ends meet and I make a little money. Everyone wins. 3. Am I a member of the CFSA? No. Not because I do not agree with what they represent or require, but instead it is the cost. I am a small operator and it is pretty expensive to place thier sticker in the door. Now, do I stay up to date on thier practices? Yes and probably stick to them better than some of thier larger members!
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