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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:43 pm Subject: My Turn for Help Please

I live in the state of CA. I got my first PDL early this year. Every paycheck since has been eaten up by PDLs as I got caught in the cycle that so many on this site have. All of my PDLs are internet based, no storefront. I have found through researching this site that most of them are operating illegally. What does that mean for me exactly?

I have paid beyond the principal+15% (the legal limit for my state) on the majority of my loans so what recourse do I have now?

Tomorrow I plan on closing my bank account and giving a wage assignment revocation letter to my payroll department.

Here is the list of loans along with all pertinent information:
Arrowhead Investment
Date
5/30
Principal
250
Finance
75
Paid
235

Impact Cash
Date 4/10
Principal
300
Finance
90
Paid
735

PayDay2go (?)
Date
5/13
Principal
300
Finance
75
Paid
375

Web Payday
Date
6/6
Principal
300
Finance
? First payment was 45 followed by 90
Paid
315

CAN
Issue here is that the website says they gave me 250 with a finance fee of 75 but I have a deposit in my bank account on the following date of the loan origination for 300.
Date
4/10
Principal
300
Finance
90
Paid
360

Cold Cash Today
Date
7/21
Principal
400
Finance
120
Paid
120

CashnetUSA
Date
8/5
Principal
255
Finance
45
Paid
0

Cash Transfer Centers
Date
7/18
Principal
500
Finance
193
Paid
0

GRC/LOANPOINT
Date
?
Principal
? Remaining Balance is 400 how much do they typically give in CA
Finance
?
Paid
840

Summit Group LLC
Date
?
Principal
300
Finance
90
Paid
660

Check Into Cash
Date
7/18
Principal
255
Finance
45
Paid
0

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:00 pm Subject:

Well first of all I am going to post your state laws, you can actually check on these companies HERE.

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:11 pm Subject:

Thanks for the reply.
The only two company I was able to find with that website were Check Into Cash. Does this mean that none of the others are legal in CA? What are the specific ramifications of operating illegally? I am only then responsible for the principal? What about overpayments? Is there any chance for a refund?
Thanks again

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:31 am Subject:

I don't know about a refund, you could try to demand one though. I am going to post a little procedure I wrote to give you an idea how to proceed with illegal pdl's, I hope this helps. Smile

You are only obligated to pay back the principal amount you borrowed from an unlicensed/illegal Internet Payday Lender.

What should you do?
Close your account asap, if you are unable to close your account, go into your bank and ask to speak with the Branch Manager, tell him/her you need a hard debit block placed on your account immediately! Explain that you are revoking ACH authorizations from unlicensed/illegal companies, and have learned these companies are notorious for ignoring revocation, therefore it is important to BLOCK any withdrawal attempts on your account to protect your interest. This is your privilege, do not accept no for an answer. The following link will provide you important information regarding closing accounts. CLICK HERE

What next?
AFTER your account is secure send each pdl (the unlicensed and illegal) an email similar to THIS (please scroll down to locate letter template). Tailor this letter to your needs, and try to write it with the same basic concept in your own words. You will need to research and locate email addresses/physical addresses if you don't already have them, I suggest that you type the name of the pdl (example: "oneclickcash address") in the search box in the upper right hand corner of this forum. You may also search for addresses HERE at the Better Business Bureau.

File complaints: Most of the time, you can file a complaint online with the following, I encourage you to follow through with doing so, you will need to search the Internet for your state Attorney General's website, however, here are links to file complaints for the FTC, Online complaints: Federal Trade Commission., and the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU.

Keep in mind that you may not receive a response for days, or even weeks, or, you may receive harassing and threatening phone calls. I have found the best way to deal with this is not to respond or reply, simply hang up.

Side note: If you have paid an illegal/unlicensed payday lender above and beyond the principal amount you borrowed, it might be a good idea to demand a refund and a paid in full letter/receipt. You may or may not get one or both. It still doesn't hurt to include that tidbit in your letter. Smile

molly · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:44 am Subject: pay day loan

I also live in california and have some of the same pay day loans. Impact cash, loan point and CAN. I have done exactly the above and the only one that has been harrasing me still is loan point. They keep telling me that I have to abide by thier state laws, not the state of ca. Which I know now is not true. Hang in there and follow the directions of the help on this web site, and you will soon be free.

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:00 am Subject:

No Emails, but this is posted on the DFI's website:

WHO IS REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS?

Any person that offers, originates or makes a deferred deposit transaction, arranges a deferred deposit for a deferred deposit originator, acts as an agent for a deferred deposit originator, or assists a deferred deposit originator in the origination of a deferred deposit is required to obtain a license from the Department of Corporations

I AM LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA PLANNING TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS OVER THE INTERNET ONLY TO RESIDENTS IN OTHER STATES. AM I REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE FROM THE DEPARTMENT.OF CORPORATIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION LAW?

Yes.

I AM NOT LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA PLANNING TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS OVER THE INTERNET TO RESIDENTS IN CALIFORNIA AND TO RESIDENTS IN OTHER STATES. AM I REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CORPORATIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION LAW.

Yes.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes. The face amount of the customer's personal check or the electronic equivalent of the customer's personal check may not exceed $300 and the fee charged may not be more than 15% of the face amount of the check.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON THE FEES THAT MAY BE CHARGED IN RELATION TO A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes. The fee may not exceed 15% of the face amount of the check. A single fee not to exceed $15 may be charged for a returned check. No additional fees may be added for late payments or returned checks.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON THE NUMBER OF DEFERRED DEPOIST TRANSACTIONS A LICENSEE MAY MAKE TO A CUSTOMER IN A 12-MONTH PERIOD?

No. There are no limits on the number of deferred deposit transactions a licensee may make to a customer in a 12-month period. A licensee cannot make a new deferred deposit transaction during the period an earlier deferred deposit transaction is in effect for the same customer and the proceeds of a new deferred deposit transaction may not be used to pay off an existing deferred deposit transaction from the same licensee.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO MAKE A NEW DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION TO A CUSTOMER THAT HAS AN EARLIER DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION THAT IS IN EFFECT FROM ANOTHER LOCATION OF THE SAME LICENSEE.

No. Licensees with multiple locations cannot enter into a deferred deposit transaction with a customer during the period an earlier deferred deposit transaction is in effect for the same customer at any of the licensee's locations.

CAN A LICENSEE USE A CUSTOMER'S PERSONAL CHECK OR THE CUSTOMER'S ELECTRONIC EQUIVALENT OF A PERSONAL CHECK RECEIVED FROM A PREVIOUS DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION FOR A NEW DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No. A licensee is not permitted to accept or use a customer's personal check or a customer's electronic equivalent of a personal check received from a previous deferred deposit transaction for a new deferred deposit transaction.

CAN A LICENSEE ACCEPT COLLATERAL IN CONJUNCTION WITH A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO MAKE THE DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION CONTINGENT ON THE PURCHASE OF OTHER SERVICES OR PRODUCTS?

No.

ARE THERE ANY SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS FOR A LICENSEE THAT MAKES A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION TO A NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING PERSON?

Yes. The written agreement must be written in the same language principally used in the oral discussions or negotiations leading to the execution of the deferred deposit agreement and must be in at least 10-point bold type.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO EXTEND THE DUE DATE OF AN OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION OR ALLOW THE CUSTOMER TO MAKE PAYMENTS ON AN OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes, though the licensee is not required to extend the due date or enter into an agreement to allow the customer to make payments on an outstanding deferred deposit transaction.

WHAT ARE THE FEES A LICENSEE MAY CHARGE IN CONNECTION WITH EXTENSIONS AND PAYMENT PLANS GRANTED FOR REPAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS?

A licensee may allow an extension of time to repay an outstanding deferred deposit transaction or a payment plan, but may not charge any additional fees or charges of any kind in conjunction with the extension or payment plan.

IS A LICENSEE PERMITTED TO DEBIT A BORROWER'S BANK ACCOUNT ELECTRONICALLY USING ACH TRANSFERS ON MULTIPLE DAYS FOR VARYING AMOUNTS TO COLLECT A DELINQUENT ACCOUNT WITHOUT THE BORROWER'S AUTHORIZATION?

No. The agreement or an addendum to the agreement must specify the days and amounts the licensee is authorized to debit the borrower's bank account electronically using ACH transfers to collect delinquent accounts. Any addendums to the agreement authorizing the licensee to debit the borrower's bank account electronically to collect overdue accounts must be in writing signed by the borrower, by fax with the borrower's signature or electronically authorized by the borrower over the Internet. The written agreement should cover the manner in which a customer's check will be deposited and the specific date of deposit. For example, when the licensee elects to deposit a personal chck by electronic means, the written agreement should specify that the licensee electronically deposits the customer's check and the specific date. If the licensee wishes to deposit the check either manually or electronically when there are insufficient funds in the customer's account, the written agreement should also specify the method and date of depositing the check under those circumstances. The written agreement should cover the manner in which a customer's check will be deposited and the specific date of deposit. For example, when the licensee elects to deposit a personal check by electronic means, the written agreement should specify that the licensee electronically deposits the customer's check and the specific date. If the licensee wishes to deposit the check either manually or electronically when there are insufficient funds in the customer's account, the written agreement should also specify the method and date of depositing the check under those circumstances.

CAN A CUSTOMER BE CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED FOR FAILING TO REPAY A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No. A customer cannot be criminally prosecuted or threatened with criminal prosecution to collect a delinquent deferred deposit transaction.

What Does this mean?

Internet based companies must be licensed by CA to lend legally.

Fees may not exceed 15% of the face value of the check.

No Rollovers are allowed.

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:01 am Subject:

Cash Net USA and Check into Cash are legal lenders. You will have to make arrangements to pay them off.

Guest · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:21 am Subject:

I realy appreciate all of the assistance. I wish I had found this site much sooner.

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:23 am Subject:

there has been really impressive, great advice on this particular thread. please keep us posted you shouldn't have too many problems and don't be scared to ask if you have further questions Smile

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:08 pm Subject:

I really apprecaite everything
Today I sent out all of the revocation/ C&D letters via email. I plan on faxing and snail mailing them also, is that necessary? I have closed by bank account and notified the payroll dept at work.
Is there anything I forgot?
I asked for refunds where I thought it was apropriate and took some liberties with Cash Transfer Centers. I have taken up several loans with them and paid them off successfully, only to find out that I was charged several hundred dollars in finance fees illegally. I currently have one outstanding loan with them, I told them in the letter of revocation that because the sum of the illegally assessed fees on previous loans is greater than the remaining balance on my outstanding loan, we should consider all debts PIF. I'll see what happens.
The only company that I couldn't find an email address (thanks search function)for was Summit Group LLC/BMG, anyone have an email for them, or should I just fax it?
THANKS SOOOOO MUCH

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:16 pm Subject:

This is all I could find, I hope it works! I would only send emails, that's really all the documnentation you need, in my opinion, though some would probably beg to differ with me. Smile

Summit Group LLC (AKA SSM Group)
1-866-463-2130
Fax: 1-866-463-9412

Guest · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:15 pm Subject:

Got my first response from Impact Cash

"We are sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with the experience that you have had with Impact Cash. I have reviewed your account and with what has been paid we will consider the account settled and paid. We will no longer contact you regarding the account or try to collect on the balance. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dan N.
Account Services
Impact Cash USA
1-800-707-0102 ext. 8005
Monday-Friday, 8-5pm (MST)
accountservices (@) impactpayments.com"

Should I press for the refund?
I have overpaid them by $435 according to my state laws

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:59 pm Subject:

it couldn't hurt to press, don't expect much but what the heck

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:47 pm Subject:

I responded to the email above saying that they have broken the law, I have contacted my attorney general, etc. I informed them of CA laws and how it was illegal to charge a rollover fee this is their response:

"According to the fees allowed in the state of California with the interest rate allowed at 459%, finance rate and fees at 15%, and a finance charge of $17.65 per $100.00. The amount that could be charged in California is $494.00 in interest, a $52.95 finance charge, and $45.00 in fees, which makes the total amount $591.95. The difference is, is that the "rollover" charge that you are referring to is the interest, finance charge and fees that are charged for the loan that you have with us. I am willing to settle with you on the account with what has been paid and close your account. Please respond as soon as possible."

That doesn't seem accurate. Any of the experts have advice as to how to respond?

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:36 pm Subject:

She is seperating them out like they are 3 different things.

The 15% of check value is the same as 459% apr and the same as $17.65 per $100.

The CORRECT was that math is done is as follows:

300 / .85 = 352.95

The fee would be $52.95.

That is all they are allowed to charge. They don't get to do an apr of 459%, plus 15% of the check, plus $17.65 per $100!

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:37 pm Subject:

Also, they must REMEMBER that the max loan term is 31 days. They seem to think they can charge a whole year's worth of interest on a loan that can only last for 31 days.

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