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As far as I know, not paying a debt is just that, not paying a debt. It's not fraud unless you are embezzling money or something of that sort, right?

And, if the debt in question is illegal (as they are with many of these IPLs) how can they enforce anything?

How many people each day default on credit cards, car loans, personal loans, etc? It's not considered fraud in those cases....

Just some food for thought.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:53 am Subject:

Jen, I'm assuming you have been accused of fraud by a pdl company!! I got that too....and I emailed them telling them exactly what fraud was, and that I did NOT commit it!!!!!

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:55 am Subject:

Do not listen to the PDLs nonsense. It is scare tactics.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:57 am Subject:

Sass and Froggy are right...don't listen to these pdl clowns. They are just trying to one-up their scare tactics because they are realizing we've wised up.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:05 am Subject:

Actually, I haven't been accused of that "yet" but I was just reading through Cannr's ordeal, among others, and cannot believe what levels they will stoop to to try to suck more money out of our accounts! It's unbelievable!

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:11 am Subject:

Yeah these places will stop at nothing. It seems to me like MTE has really gotten nasty lately, too. A lot of people are having major problems with them. Jen, I was accused by DMS Marketing aka The Loan Shop of being a "Runner!!" They told me I wrote bad checks, committed fraud, etc..........

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:21 am Subject:

OMG, Sass, that's crazy!

I have dealt with some nasty collection agencies in the past, but this takes things to a whole new level.

I can't wait for the fun to begin.

But, I'm wondering, since I got my AG on the case, if they will back down (MTE). I hope so! I am just looking to get the PIF, but a refund would be a delight! Smile

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:24 pm Subject:

If you act according to what these illegal companies say, you will keep losing your hard earned money. Be aware of your consumer rights. That's one way to stand strong and not to feel intimated by these sharks

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:17 pm Subject:

Some of the more interesting IPDL threats:

-"...you're committing interstate wire fraud..."
-"...you're committing fraud by check..."
-"...you will be arrested and we have 20 people coming to your door in 5 minutes, so find someplace for your kids to go..."
-"....we're going to tell your boss you owe this money and you will be fired..."
-"...we're going to tell your mom (or aunt, or cousin, or grandmother) that you owe this money and we expect THEM to pay it for you..."

and on and on...ad nauseum.

These places will try ANYTHING to get you to pay - especially after you start asserting your rights as a consumer and requesting to be marked paid in full. If you have already paid the principal and the interest allowed by your state PDL Law, keep fighting! In some cases, you can obtain a refund...in others, just simply getting them to leave you alone is a major victory!

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:13 pm Subject:

If they are not licensed in your state,simply tell them at least I am not guilty of strong arm extortion,wire fraud,and mail fraud since these statutes are being broken by you with these threats.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:54 pm Subject: jen

jen, thank you for posting this! It caught my eye, of course! And I thank you! Yes, I am now being accused of committing "fraud", which totally freaked my butt out! I took out a loan and committed "fraud". The "fraud department" is investigating. Lord, if I heard the word "fraud" one more time, I was going to hang myself! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one accused of committing "fraud". Lord have mercy. It's been one hell of a day! jen, I thank you again. You're thinking of me & that makes me feel so much better. Like I always say - you guys are the only friends I have! Laughing

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:59 pm Subject:

cannr, I think that all of us that have realized we had rights as far as these places go and have stood up to them have been accused of "fraud." You are definitely not the only one!!! We are all a bunch of frauds LMAO!!

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:00 pm Subject:

Cannr, $500fastcash sent me the "FRAUD" email. It scared me at first but then I thought about what the definition of fraud is. DECEIT, TRICKERY, CHEATING!! SOMETHING SAID OR DONE TO DECEIVE; TRICK; ARTIFICE.
Have any of you done this???? HELL NO, but the PDL's have! I DID NOT take out a loan with the intention of not paying. I DID NOT try to trick them out of the amount of money that I borrowed and I DID NOT and I have NOT tried to cheat them out of anything! BUT I WILL NOT CONTINUE TO PAY MORE THAN WHAT I HAVE ALREADY PAID TO THEM.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:22 pm Subject:

Lying on a credit application in order to obtain a loan , or providing false information where a lender would rely on such information as a basis for their approval, could be considered fraud. 18 US Code 1104 does actually prescribe criminal penalties of "not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both." If you do it through the mail, add in 'mail fraud'. On the internet may constitute 'wire fraud'.

However, most payday loans will not fall into the categories mentioned in the pretext of this federal statute, since they are not really part of the federal reserve system.

Some states do consider writing bad checks as fraud. This varies from state to state as to whether they would actually prosecute over it. Moreover, writing a check against a closed account is more severe, and could often carry criminal penalties.

That being said, these are really the only two reasons when not paying a debt can be considered fraud. If you are truthful on your application and you haven't written checks against a closed account, then there is nothing criminal about not paying a debt. All the threats are just a scare tactic.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:32 pm Subject: fraud

I understand that writing a bad check would be considered fraud. I also understand that providing false information on an application would be considered fraud. However, my issue is with internet pdl's that were debiting me to death and I blocked the debits. They are throwing "fraud" at me left and right. These are internet pdl's that I have contacted regarding my loan, only to be ignored. These are internet pdl's that I informed I was revoking debit authorization, only to be ignored. So can they claim fraud???

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:47 pm Subject:

I think that if you look at the wording on most bad check laws, the laws apply specifically to paper checks. Paper checks are a one time deal. The theory is, that when you write a paper check, you know whether that check will clear or not.

When we look at an automatic/recurring ACH authorization ... you can't tell what is going to happen to your bank account a year from now. Signing up for ACH payments, and then having insufficient funds or closing the account later on down the road, does not of itself prove fraud. To nail you with fraud, the PDL would have to show your "intent to defraud" -- they would have to prove that you gave them ACH authorization while knowing your account would be closed. They simply cannot prove that.

Aside, as other have said, the PDLs are most likely illegal anyway and so they aren't going to step foot in a court room, lest the be nailed for their own illegal practice.

Another thing to consider... if it was fraud to have your bank block debits from those companies ... then why would your bank let you do it? I'm sure if you went into your bank and told them you planned on writing a bad check, they would tell you not to. So why would your bank knowingly let you commit fraud by blocking debits on your account?

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Since when is not paying a debt considered "fraud"

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