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08-27-2008, 03:18 PM

There is a web site for the department of finacial institutes in the state of arizona ( won't let me post it here ). There will be a tab on the side that says " list of licenses "

I have been looking for certian internet based companies on there as well.

The only problem I can find is if they have a different name than the one they give you.

You can call the Department 602) 255-4421 or (800) 544-0708 to get more information about the companies as well as what you can do to stop them if they are indeed illegal.

09-05-2008, 12:01 PM

what if they are not licensed? what does this mean?

DOLLARSandSINCE · 09-05-2008, 02:04 PM

Goudah, You might want to re-verify Kentucky. I talked with someone out of the Office of Finance here and they told me that a PDL company must have a state issued Kentucky license in order to loan in Kentucky. He then told me to get that license they must have one physical address that conducts PDLs as a business. He then stated that if they don't have a physical store then they don't get a license. In other words all internet PDL loans are illegal here unless they have a storefront to go along with it.

goudah2424 · 09-08-2008, 06:50 AM

I know that - See

http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com...pdls-laws.html

Kentucky Laws.

It doesn't change what I have on the first page, the company must be licensed. There is some crazy loophole that I haven't quite yet managed to put my finger on, but there are several companies that have licenses in every other state they can, yet they also lend in KY. Why would they bother to be legal in every other state, but not KY? So there is something missing.

Also, since technically they could have a storefront, it doesn't make all internet loans illegal.

I stand by my info.

DOLLARSandSINCE · 09-08-2008, 07:46 AM

At the very bottom of this post is a quote from the page that was linked. It looks like Cannr did some research on Kentucky laws. I am pretty sure Chris Thompson is the same fellow I spoke to about a year ago over the same issue. I am basing my response off of what he told me directly. A summary of what he said is to get a license in kentucky they have to have a physical store front in kentucky otherwise they are not getting a license. Essentially this makes all IPDLs illegal in Kentucky with the exception of the small number that have a storefront to go with it at least based on what he told me and what Cannr confirmed below. Technically you are correct that an IPDL could loan here but the catch is they need a store here to do it. The only thing I was suggesting was to move Kentucky to the list that says IPDLs are illegal and then put a qualifier that says they are legal if they have a store here. The reason I am suggesting this is because the percentage of IPDLs on the net that actually have a store in Kentucky is probably a very small number and the most notrious IPDL outfits are not licensed here.

Quote:

It doesn't change what I have on the first page, the company must be licensed. There is some crazy loophole that I haven't quite yet managed to put my finger on, but there are several companies that have licenses in every other state they can, yet they also lend in KY. Why would they bother to be legal in every other state, but not KY? So there is something missing.

In my opinion the reason they get licenses in other states but not Kentucky is the same reason I posted above. Kentucky won't give them a license unless they open a store here. Frankly, Kentucky's PDL laws suck for the consumer and really are not much better than the deal you get from IPDLs. If I were an internet outfit I would partner with a storefront here to make it legal so I could cover my bases.

Quote:

Quote:
Kentucky State Information

Legal Status: Legal (Applies to check cashers only)

Citation:
Kentucky Rev. Stat. Ann. Â§ 368.010 et seq.

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $500
Loan Term: 14-60 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: $15 per $100
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $17.65
apr for 14-day $100 loan: 459%

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: Two ($500 aggregate loans outstanding to all licensees)
Rollovers Permitted: None (cannot renew, rollover, or consolidate)
Cooling-off Period: None
Repayment Plan:

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: One NSF fee (if disclosed)
Criminal Action: Prohibited

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: Kentucky Office of Financial Institutions
Address: 1025 Capital Center Drive, Suite 200 Frankfort KY 40601
Phone: (800) 223-2579
Fax: (502) 573-8787
Regulatory Contact: Gary Davis,, Branch Manager

Emails to and from the banking dept:

To Whom It May Concern:

I have a question regarding internet payday lenders. I have visited the Department of Financial Institutions site and found some information. However, I am still a little confused.

I understand that storefront payday lenders are legal in the state of Kentucky and have printed out the laws applying to them. However, there is nothing regarding internet payday lenders.

I did a search on the site to see if some internet payday lenders were licensed in Kentucky. No results came up for any of them. If the case is that an internet payday lender is not licensed in the state of Kentucky, what then?

Internet payday lenders are claiming they do not have to comply with Kentucky state law. They claim they comply with the law in which they are located.

If they are not licensed in the state of Kentucky to fund loans, are they not in violation of some sort of law?

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. At the very least, it might clear up my confusion.

Thank you so much for your attention in this.

Response:

Internet payday lending is illegal in Kentucky.

Chris Thompson
Compliance Branch Manager

Reply:

I have emailed before regarding internet payday lending and received the reply that internet payday lending is illegal in Kentucky. Thank you for that information.

I now have another question. If an agency is attempting to collect on an internet loan - which was illegally funded - does the collection agency need to be licensed in the state of Kentucky? Is this even a legal debt to collect on?

Thank you for any information you can give.

Response:

I am not sure who if anyone licenses collection agencies. This Office does not consider it a legal debt as the entity was not licensed to do business in Kentucky.

Chris Thompson
Compliance Branch Manager

Reply:

I have viewed our state pay day law and understand that a store front pay day loan company can collect one NSF fee if your check is returned by your financial institution.

However, I have a question. How many times can a pay day loan company run the check through to your financial institution?

I have a pay day loan company that I am working on setting up a repayment plan; however, they keep running the check through my financial institution every week.

I was under the assumption that pay day loan companies may run the check through only once; however, I could be misunderstanding.

Could you please clairfy for me how many times a store front pay day loan company can run your check through your financial institution? I would like to be sure this company is following the law.

Thank you in advance for any answers/advice.

Response:

There is nothing in the check casher statute that prohibits the number of times a pay day loan company can run the check through; however, it is my understanding that banking law on allows a bank to do it only twice.

Chris Thompson
Compliance Branch Manager

I've looked more into this, to see exactly why internet lending is "illegal" in KY

Ms. :

We have an Administrative Regulation in Kentucky 808 KAR 9:040 Limitation on electronic fund transfer from customers accounts that states: â€œIn connection with a deferred deposit transaction, a license shall deposit or present for payment a customerâ€™s actual check to the customerâ€™s bank or other financial institution unless that check is redeemed or bought back by the customer.â€

This prevents Internet payday loans in Kentucky and any company that may be offering loans in Kentucky is doing so illegally. If you have any additional questions feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

Rodney Gabbard

What does this mean?

A legal lender must hold a check from the customer.

Storefronts can charge you 15% of the face value of the check.

Rollovers are not allowed.

A big Thank You! to Cannr for providing this information!

goudah2424 · 09-08-2008, 08:37 AM

I don't want to put a qualifier on it. I've done quite a bit of research into it, and there is still a piece missing, and until I find that piece, I'm keeping it how it is.

There is the possibility of a legal internet lender in KY, and if I put KY under illegal, then it's very misleading. Most people don't look at any qualifiers, so it's best to keep it how it is, as most intenet places aren't licensed anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

Internet lenders in themselves are not illegal. It's an issue of licensing.

DOLLARSandSINCE · 09-08-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

States that require internet based pdl's to be licensed by that state:

Quote:

In the following states internet payday lenders are not legal, either because of restrictive laws, or because the state does not license companies not located in that state, but requires a state issued license to lend.

Those are the two list headings above. Kentucky is currently on your first list heading. I just thought Kentucky fit the bill for the second also because of this the state does not license companies not located in that state, but requires a state issued license to lend. There is however a loophole in that if they have a licensed store front here then they could lend here over the net as well. I think it would be wise to note that next to Kentucky no matter which list you leave it on. The reason I think this is because almost all IPDLs can not get licensed here because they don't have a storefront here. You could just put in parentheses next to the state something like (physical storefront required in the state in order to have licensed issued) and leave it on the first list. That would bring it to peoples attention that any IPDL especially the most notorious are illegal in Kentucky because they don't have a store here. I do agree that you should not put it on a list that says all IPDLs are illegal because there is a loophole that would allow IPDLs to operate here if they build one store anywhere in the state or partner with any current PDL.

goudah2424 · 09-08-2008, 09:48 AM

But if they are partnered with a storefront then they have a license.

goudah2424 · 09-08-2008, 09:51 AM

In those state's I have listed under "the state does not license companies not located in that state, but requires a state issued license to lend" requires a physical location, not just to be associated with a physical location. They will not license companies not located in that state. KY is different.

DOLLARSandSINCE · 09-08-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

In those state's I have listed under "the state does not license companies not located in that state, but requires a state issued license to lend" requires a physical location, not just to be associated with a physical location. They will not license companies not located in that state. KY is different.

I am just trying to elaborate on Kentucky IPDL loans based on my understanding. Please don't be upset Goudah. Your work is great and I can see you spent a lot of time researching the different states. It is also possible that my information is not completely accurate since I only had a couple of phone coversations with one state employee of the Office of Finance. I actually made those phone calls around the time Cannr first joined the site to find out for myself and for her if IPDLs were legal here. Since then she has done her own research as you posted.

It is deffintely an issue of licensing like you stated in a previous post. Kentucky has set it up to where it is almost impossible for an IPDL to be licensed here and do business here properly. They require a physical store front and they require a physical check to be signed and held by the storefront. They don't make it simple and just state IPDLs are illegal in Kentucky but they make it very difficult for them to obtain said license and operate legally.

My understanding per the conversations I had with the Office of the Finance is exactly what you just stated above for Kentucky. Kentucky requires a physical location to get a license. They are required to have a storefront they do business out of. They are also required to obtain a physical check to make a loan. They will not license companies if the company is not physically located in the state. The loophole I mentioned was they could potentially set up a physical shop anywhere in Kentucky and then loan to the entire state via the net but they would still be required to get the physical check. I personally think it would be a pain to run the business that way but it is possible I suppose. Without the check or the license the loan was made illegally.

On a side not the partnership thing is just something I threw out there to skirt the law. I don't know if it has occured but what I was suggesting is a company could potentially buy an existing storefront or make it appear like they are doing business out of that storefront and maybe get a license. That is an assumption on my part. I would hope that the Office of Finance would not license more than one PDL per business location but I don't know. Again that internet company would still be required to obtain the physical check via snail mail prior to making a loan and that's assuming the person signing the check does not have to be present when presenting the check to the store front.

In reality it is very unlikely an IPDL would go through any of this hassle including the IPDLs that try to follow the laws so they choose to loan illegally in Kentucky. It is much simpler for them. They calculate the loss as part of their business. The people borrowing money over the net that don't know about the PDL laws far outweigh those that do. With almost zero penalty other than a few refusing to pay the fees based on those laws it only makes sense for them to operate this way. They just lump those guys in with all the others that refuse to pay for other reasons. Until the AG steps in with some criminal prosecutions for loan sharking or making illegal loans, I really don't see much changing here.

09-09-2008, 12:38 PM

I live in Colorado and have a $1,400.00 loan with Zip19.com which is debited in two separate charges of 850.00 each on the 15th and 30th of each month from my checking account. Because of the debits, I always reloan the amount in order to meet my other financial obligations. I have had this nightmare going for over a year. In the state of Colorado if you take out four consective loans the pdl has to offer you a repayment plan to pay the loan off in six installment. Today, I contacted Zip19 and they told me this does not apply to them because they aren't a bank or financial institution. Does anyone have any advice for me? I despearately want to wake up from the horrible nightmare.
Thanks

09-12-2008, 06:50 AM

I HAVE OVERPAID ON A LOAN FROM JVC ARE THEY LICENSED TO LEND IN NEW JERSEY & HOW CAN I GET IN TOUCH WITH THIS COMPANY AS I NEVER RECEIVED ANY RETURN INFORMATION

09-16-2008, 07:56 AM

What are the laws for Florida?? Have one loan with impactcash and qloot. Any help??? qloot has been withdrawing $105 every 2 weeks for months, with NO paydown at all!

09-25-2008, 02:11 PM

Do you go by the state that you are in or what state the PDL is in?

selfj · 09-30-2008, 11:34 PM

In Alabama you can search the database of licenses here

http://www.bank.state.al.us/ADPSA_Licenses2.asp

10-09-2008, 08:33 AM

I am also in AZ. It is my understanding that some banks will reopen a bank account for ACH Transactions. Does anyone have a list of these banks? I need to close my account and I am not sure my bank will cooperate.