I've been reading threads all day trying to help myself. I think it's time I just put it out there and asked for help. I have 6 payday loans, 4 mine and 2 in my husband's name. My 4 ach from my checking, his 2 ach from our joint savings.
All were internet loans. Mine are from:
Greenlight Funds $200 original loan on 1/15/08 with $60 interest biweekly since then. On 3/17/08 they informed me they'd be drafting $25 towards my principal. This was without prompting.
($60 drafts on 1/25, 2/8, 2/22, 3/7, and $85 on 3/21)
Cashback Payday Loans (NV) $700 original loan with $137.50 interest biweekly for several months and an occasional draft of $50 towards principal.
(This starts back farther than my bank account shows online, but $137.50 drafts occurred on 12/28/07, 01/11, 1/25, 02/08, 2/22, 3/7, +50 prin 03/21/0
Loan Point/Geneva Roth $300 original loan with $90 interest biweekly since 12/26/07. There seems to be no end in sight with this one. Ouch.
($90 drafts on 1/11, 1/25, 2/8, 2/22, 3/7, 3/21)
Cash Central (UT) $300 original loan with $75 biweekly since 2/28/08. They have me set up to pay $75 x3 until they draft $375 on 4/18/08, which is going to kill us.
My husband's are from:
Greenlight Funds $100 original loan dated 1/3/08 with $30 interest biweekly since. They just drafted $55 instead of $30 on 3/1/08, which I assume was $25 towards the principal. He emailed them on 3/1/08 and 3/13/08 asking why and no one responded. ($30 drafts on 1/18, 2/1, 2/15, $55 2/29, $47.50 3/14, also with no explanation)
CashNetUSA (IL) $200 original loan dated 3/5/08 with $50 biweekly interest since. The first draft we set for $50 prin and $45 interest, 2nd draft we set for $50 prin and $37.50 interest, and then I believe it pays out. So it's close to over.
It's my fault the situation is this bad, and I'm sure glad I read up on this because the last thing I need is to close my account and get fraud or bad check charges. That, plus calls to my boss or job, or family, scare me the most. I'd like to stop them all from drafting my account, and pay them outside of ach with reasonable terms. My checks aren't my own anymore and since they're starting to just draft whatever they want in some cases, I'm scared to ask them for external arrangements for fear they'll just tap in and help themselves. I've had my accounts at Wachovia for 16 years. It seems like alot of people on here have opted for closing their accounts and letting the chips fall where they may. I know I need to check with my bank first to make sure they wouldn't reopen my account. I guess what I'm trying to determine is, what leg I have to stand on with getting any of these discharged as paid in full based on Pa law or licensure, and what experience has been with some of these lenders as far as ruthlessness in negotiating tactics afterwards. I guess I'm looking for worst case scenarios. Thanks for your help, in advance.
Hang tight. There'll be somebody along shortly with more knowledge than I have. _________________ -
The four no's of dealing with collectors:
No validation? No payment. No way! No fooling!!
wolf, PA will "allow" internet loans if the pdl is licensed SOMEWHERE. If they are licensed SOMEWHERE, they will be considered legal. If they are not licensed SOMEWHERE, they would be considered illegal. Now, if the pdl is licensed SOMEWHERE, you would then have to follow the pdl state law where the pdl is. I hope this makes sense. I know that pdls are prohibited in PA; however, we need to see if any of these pdls that you have are licensed anywhere. If so, we need to go by those state pdl laws, okay? Let me take a look at your pdl names again and see what's up. But, let me take a moment to address your bank account issue. The reason the majority of people close their bank account is because we are dealing with illegal companies, they've debited the hell out of bank accounts, they've taken well over the principle amount borrowed, etc. If you continue to have the same bank account and it's left open/active, these pdls are going to hit it for all it's worth. Every chance they get, they will debit. If they even catch wind that you "might" be closing/blocking your account, they're going to hit it hard. That's why it's almost always advised to close/block the account and open a new one. I understand you have been with your bank for a number of years; however, you may be able to open a new account with the same bank. We try to advise opening an account at a completely different bank just to be on the safe side; however, many have stayed at the same back - just opened a new account. If you do this, please get some sort of assurance that your new account will not be affected by the old account if debits hit it (get something in writing if possible).
Your Greenlight Funds pdls - are they actually Green Light Financial Services? Can you check any paperwork and see? If so, they are licensed in Delaware. Delaware has lax pdl laws and also Green Light Financial Services has a clause in their contract regarding a wage assignment. Please clarify for me if this is indeed them. If so, we will need to proceed with them as being licensed in Delaware and also address the wage assignment issue.
CashNetUSA operates as a CSO. Basically, they are "legal" and you kind of have to pay what they say. Since they operate as a CSO, they don't follow pdl law. They can pretty much "do their own thing". So, this one will also be considered a legal one.
The GreenLightFunds.com site points to Greenlight Funding Group in Wilmington, DE., as you suspected. The 2 from them are the smallest, but I was peeved that they didn't respond to my husband's emails about why they drafted more than the interest with no notification. If I hadn't waited an extra day to move his paycheck into my checking account, they would have put me in overdraft.
Based on what you've indicated, they're all licensed properly to issue loans in Pa. At least I picked qualified lenders, as if that's a consolation. (Lucky me). I've read conflicting information about how Pa laws (loan rate caps I found on http://www.paydayloaninfo.org/state_detail.cfm?id=PA ) play into this, since I reside here and the loans were dispensed to me here. What I'd like to hear is that some of these might really be considered paid in full already, based on the interest I may have overpaid. I've read A LOT about LoanPoint/Geneva, in particular.
If I do close the account and open one at say, Peoples First Credit Union that happens to be my employers bank of choice, and ensure that Wachovia is shut down finito ach-proof yadda yadda, CAN I be charged with fraud, bad check writing, and so forth, because these lenders are considered banks? Aside from the harrassment that I anticipate, what ramifications can I expect legally?
Hi, wolf! Okay, we've established then that Green Light is licensed in Delaware, so there's another one that will be considered "legal" for you. Now, as for your questions regarding reading conflicting information regarding PA law, I'm posting something for you that one of our awesome members, goudah, found out by emailing the authorities in PA regarding all of this. I hope that it will clarify some issues you might have. She has been trying to contact all states and find out EXACTLY how to handle pdls (internet especially). So read this that I'm going to post. I hope it helps.
I have a question about payday loans in Pennsylvania. Does the small loan rate cap of $9.50 per $100 per year discount or 24% per year apply to these loans? I took out a few on the internet and am trying to figure out how much I legally need to pay. For instance on a $200 loan would I be legally responsible for paying back only $248?
Thanks!
Response:
Dear Ms.:
The 9.5 discount and the 24 % simple interest refer to calculations that can be used by companies that are operating in Pennsylvania and are licensed under Pennsylvania’s Consumer Discount Company Act. With a number of exceptions, a lender that is located inside of Pennsylvania and who does not have any special lending authority (i.e., a special license or charter) who is making smaller loans not secured by real estate can only charge interest at a rate of 6% simple.
A lender that does not have a physical presence in Pennsylvania but who has lending authority from some other state can generally charge the interest rate and finance charges allowed by that other state.
The Department may or may not be reviewing this policy and I would not count on this e-mail as an interpretive opinion before starting any lending or business operations.
James Keiser | Administrator Non-Depository Institutions
17 North Second Street, 13th Floor | Hbg PA 17101
Phone: 717.783.8242 | Fax: 717.787.8773
jkeiser(at)state.pa.us | www.banking.state.pa.us
What does this mean?
There are no storefronts in PA. They are illegal.
Internet lenders can lend legally to PA residents as long as they are licensed in another state. They would need to follow the laws of the state in which they are licensed.
Also, regarding closing your bank account. Yes, you can and you will be fine. What you would need to do, since the pdls that you are dealing with are licensed, is contact them and make alternative payment arrangments with them. No ACH debits. As a matter of fact, deny having a bank account at all. You can tell them that YOUR BANK closed your account. Deny, deny, deny having another account. This way, they can't get their money by debiting, so they will have to accept another form of payment whether it be by money order, pre-paid debit card, money gram, western union, whatever. I personally lean towards them giving a mailing address and sending money orders. It costs a hell of a lot less money.
Whatever you do, do NOT let the pdls know that you are closing/blocking your bank account. Make sure that account is "safe" before contacting them and making arrangements. If you let them know beforehand, they will debit the hell out of you. I'm going to post something regarding closing your bank account for you to read. It might help. You can ask ANY questions. Oh! And, no, it won't be "fraud" or "bad check" or anything of that sort. Now, some plds will lie and say "fraud" (I heard that 1,000 times). Not true.
Before you close your bank account due to payday loans eating away at your paycheck, please read this.
Some banks have a policy regarding ach transactions that allows them to force open closed accounts if any ach transactions go through within a certain time frame after the account is closed. This can leave you owing a legal bank $1,000's and reported to chexsystems, instead of owing barely legal (or not at all legal) payday loan companies. Not a good thing. Ask your bank what their policy is on ach transactions on closed accounts before you close the account. It's best to go in person and talk to a branch manager.
If your bank does have this policy, tell them your situation. Don't be embarrassed. Take letters with you showing that you have revoked authorization for each of your payday loan companies to debit your account. Tell the bank to put your account on deposit only, an ach block, or a hard hold before they close the account. Your bank can do one of those, don't take no for an answer. This will prevent any payday loan ach's from reopening the bank account.
It'a always best to close your bank account. Leaving it open gives ways for the payday loan companies to continue to take money out. These companies have many different dba's, so blocking them won't work. They will also produce paper checks and run them through your account. Closing the account is the best way to prevent these companies from taking money out of your account.
Some state laws do allow for prosecution if you close your bank account, but that is usually in cases of fraud. But it's always best to check with your state's attorney general or department of financial institution before you close your account. You want to make sure you are not causing more heacaches!
Also, since your pdls are located in Delaware, NV, and Utah, I'm going to post the state pdl law for those states, since that's the pdl law they're supposed to follow.
Login | 
