Federal Debt Relief Program - Has it been helpful to consumers?

Willyammer · Sub: #**209** Replied on 05-18-2008, 11:38 PM

Mobile, Yikes! What a crappy ad! It certainly lacks the integrity that the company professes to have.

But thanks for the ad. They aren't located too far from where I live. I'll go check them out tomorrow. And if I work with them, the first thing I'll do is get them a new ad writer!

Anonymous · Sub: #**210** Replied on 05-19-2008, 12:06 AM

I did the same thing on the BBB and noticed only 33 complaints and like was said only 5 that would be considered worth while. And while checking you would think "IF" this company was a ripoff they would have ALOT more Complaints that 5 I mean serious complaints.

Personally the most people who have trouble are those that thought by what I read on the report that they wouldnt get sued, or the money was to PAY their debt or got scared and left after 2-3 months and wanted their money back, and then the content on exposing the Banks and some the plans of the Global elite like Bilderberg group disturbs some or they dont want to believe and drop out.

Personally all of this stuff was covered in the contract I signed with them. Also there is the Patriot movement. Some consider it conspiracy theories others consider this a serious fact and plot against this country and the free world.

As for that Ad, I didnt see anything that said FDRS.org, but if it IS legit as you say I did notice this sentence in the paragraph.

"Sell a product you believe in to people who really need it and have requested your call."

If they are a scam why sell a Product or Service you Believe in? Its not necessary if you are just trying to make money? Also everyone I Spoke to at FDRS are a patriot that KNOW whats going on, plus I found out about them through a reliable source in the Patriot movement. For me thats enough.

BTW if I am Wrong I will post here 15 months from now to warn everyone. lol

unclewulf · Sub: #**211** Replied on 05-19-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyammer

unclewulf, the spell checker comment was not for you.

It's a public board, remember? If you're going to post here, kindly stick to the facts. Seems simple enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyammer

Don't be so paranoid

What?

Wishing this board had a built-in spell check tool makes me paranoid? That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Be that as it may, I'm through debating you. Not necessarily finished with you, understand. Just done with debating you.

Willyammer · Sub: #**212** Replied on 05-19-2008, 09:01 AM

unclewulf, LOL. You are too funny, telling me to "kindly stick to the facts" when you have not supplied one in any of your posts on this subject. I'm sure if I read your posts on other subjects I'll find more opinion than facts as well.

If you indeed are done debating me then please don't comment until you have at least one factual comment relating to FDRS.

By the way, have you drilled down into the BBB posts or checked further into the google complaints you claim are out there, to see if they are actual complaints or if they are mere crackpots? Or are you too proud to admit you haven't or that you are wrong?

Anonymous · Sub: #**213** **FDRS** Replied on 05-20-2008, 12:24 PM

Mobile0311, You are dead on about this company, I only wish I would have heard your light on the subject before I lost my hard earned money,(approx. 3 grand). I was desperate, lost my job, no income other than my spouses and was slowly sinking fast. They supposingly threw me a life jacket, WHATEVER! I lost my money, my life and people, you NEED to listen to Mobile0311, I only wish I would have had some insight, I haven't been given a refund, I guess I have been had and that is putting it nicely....

mobile0311 · Sub: #**214** Replied on 05-20-2008, 12:39 PM

Thanks Action , I am truly sorry to hear you were taken for a ride by these con artists. Please spread the word on these con artists. Buy the way here is a recent article I read that was written by Charles Phelan about how Debt Termination is bogus.

Quote:

Consumers seeking debt assistance are faced with a bewildering assortment of debt companies, services, programs, books, ebooks, and websites. How to tell the scams from the legitimate options? The purpose of this article is to help consumers easily spot and steer clear of one particular scam that is growing through network or multi-level marketing schemes. It goes under different names, such as debt elimination, debt termination, or debt reduction. Such names can certainly apply to legitimate programs as well, and the scammers purposely name their bogus programs with the intention of deceiving consumers and stealing them away from legitimate companies. For the purpose of this article, I'll refer to it as the debt elimination scam, but be aware that it may be called something different.

So how can you tell this scam from legitimate debt elimination techniques? It's pretty easy, actually. The scam is based on the bogus "no money lent" argument, where the claim is made that credit card banks cannot loan money legally. Through strange leaps of logic, the scammers claim that credit card banks are actually operating illegally, and so you never really borrowed any money when you used your credit cards! Therefore, you don't really need to pay anything back. You just have to follow their system and the debts will go away because the banks don't want this knowledge disclosed to the public!

I realize this may sound ridiculous at first glance, but the con artists are very convincing, and there are dozens of websites promoting this dangerous scam. They refer to publications by the Federal Reserve Board, the Uniform Commercial Code, the Truth in Lending Act, and other public laws to bolster their claims and give an aura of legitimacy to their "program." I've talked with numerous consumers who have been conned out of $2,500, $5,000, even up to $15,000 because they believed the hype that these snake-oil salesmen were peddling. If you're $30,000, $50,000, or $100,000 deep in credit card debt, it can be very tempting to believe in a magic pill. What if you could pay someone 15% of the debt and make the rest of the debt disappear?

As tempting as the promoters make it sound, the debt elimination techniques they are using simply do not work. About the only thing they accomplish is getting you sued by your creditors. As you might expect, creditors hate this scam, and they come down hard on people trying to use this bogus "no money lent" system. You don't need to take my word for this. Check out the complaints on ripoffreport.com about Liberty Resources, a debt elimination scam that was shut down in Ohio. Or do some research on New Leaf Associates out of Florida, a scam that was shut down by the Florida Attorney General after consumers were ripped off for millions of dollars. I've personally talked to people who were caught up in both of these scams, as well as others who were involved in scams that have not yet been shut down.

I also sometimes receive calls or emails from people promoting this system. Because I am easy to reach and I'm a well-known debt expert, they seem compelled to convince me of the worth and merit of their system. Often, the people contacting me are ignorant of the nature of the scam. That's because this program is frequently sold through MLM or network marketing systems, and a lot of the people involved simply don't know any better. I respond by making a simple request, and any "true believers" in this system who happen to read this article can take this as a challenge. All I ask is for a single verifiable court case where a judge agreed with the "no money lent" argument and ruled in favor of the debtor. It's really that simple. After asking this question for several years, I'm still waiting. No such case exists, despite false claims to the contrary. The response is usually that the company must protect the clients' privacy, but they have "hundreds of success stories" and have dismissed "millions of dollars" of debt.

Nonsense! The only way this system could possibly work is if a judge ruled on it in court. And since court cases are public record by definition, privacy cannot be an issue here. The "client" gave up any right to privacy when he or she tried to convince a judge that the 50 grand they owed on their credit cards was really just "funny money." And yet the con artists cannot provide a single solitary case in support of their outrageous claims. (Note to scammers: Don't waste my time emailing me with your threats or your legal mumbo-jumbo. I've heard it all before. Just send me the civil docket number for a single case where your "client" won in court using this system, and identify the court venue so I can look up the case myself online. Simple enough, right? I won't hold my breath though.) In fact, the "no money lent" argument has been shot down in court on multiple occasions. When confronted with this embarrassing fact, the scammers simply reply that the courts are part of a "conspiracy" to keep this information from the public!

The absence of any verifiable documentation is the red flag that tells you this scheme simply doesn't work. But let me take this a step farther. Let's set aside for a moment the whole question of the legal basis for the "no money lent" argument. Let's take a huge silly leap for a moment and say that the system is valid from a legal perspective. Well, it's STILL not going to work for the average consumer! Why? Two reasons. First, it requires a fight in court, and the average consumer wants to go to court over debt-related matters about as much as they want to have multiple root-canals without anesthetic.

Second, nothing gets resolved this way. I've worked with thousands of people struggling with serious debt problems. I talk to people in this situation every day. I can't think of a single instance where the person's priority was anything other than to GET THE MATTER RESOLVED PERMANENTLY. The techniques used by the debt elimination scammers do not achieve any resolution at all. Even if the debtor successfully gets a creditor to back off from its collection effort, all that will happen is the creditor will sell the account to a debt purchasing company, who will then try to collect all over again. So the whole process will have to be repeated, over and over again as the debt gets sold multiple times down the line. There is no resolution here. Just a bag of useless tricks. Boil it all down and here is what the debt elimination scammers are telling you: Walk away from your debts, don't pay, and duck and cover. That's it. It's a lot of hot air and bogus nonsense, and it only exists because debt-weary consumers are desperate for solutions.

If you have become the victim of a debt elimination scam, I urge you to take action. Demand a refund in writing. Complain to the Better Business Bureau where the company is located (assuming you can even find them), complain to your state Attorney General and the Federal Trade Commission. And then get on the phone with your creditors and explain that you were misled and that you would like to work things out in good faith. It may be necessary for you to formally retract any documentation that the scammers sent to your creditors.

I hope this article helps people to realize that Debt Termination is bogus. If it sounds to good to be true it is.

mobile0311 · Sub: #**215** Replied on 05-20-2008, 12:48 PM

Here is another well written article by Charles Phelan regarding the bogus scam of Debt Termination.

Quote:

"Legally terminate credit card debt! You can be debt-free in 4-6 months!" Advertisements like this are for a new type of program that has spread via the Internet over the past few years. It's called "Credit Card Debt Termination," and victims are paying $1,000s for this bogus service. One victim I spoke with lost more than $15,000! In this article, I'll review the principles behind this program and explain exactly why it's a scam to be avoided.

First, let's get our definitions straight. The scheme I'm describing here should not be confused with debt consolidation or debt settlement (also known as debt negotiation), both of which are legitimate and ethical methods for debt resolution. The easiest way to distinguish the Credit Card Debt Termination scam from other valid programs is based on the central claim that you really don't owe any money!

With Debt Consolidation, you pay back all of your debt balances. With Debt Settlement, you pay back a lower amount (usually around 50%) while the creditor agrees to forgive the remaining balance. However, with the bogus Credit Card Debt Termination program, promoters claim that you won't need to pay anything at all (except their outrageous fees, naturally). They make the surprising claim that you can legally wipe away your debts simply by using their super-duper magic documents. Based on some legal mumbo-jumbo, the claim is made that you really didn't borrow any money from your creditors!

In order to understand this scam, a little background is necessary. Remember the tax protest movement back in the 1970s? People were claiming that the IRS tax collection system was unconstitutional, and based on their misinterpretation of the tax code, they refused to pay taxes. The IRS came down hard on the tax protest movement, and through the court system, they blew holes in all the legal arguments put forth by the protesters. The Credit Card Debt Termination scam is a lot like the tax protest movement. In fact, among collection professionals, it's called the "monetary protest movement."

Just like the tax protest movement, there is a common theme that runs through all of the promotional materials issued by the monetary protestors. The basic idea is that our Federal Reserve monetary system and generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) do not permit banks to loan out their own money. Therefore, according to their interpretation, the credit card banks are the ones running the scam on the American public.

Stay with me here, because the logic is pretty strange. If a bank cannot lend its own money, how does a credit card bank extend credit? The claim here is that your credit card agreement itself becomes a form of money (known as a promissory note) the moment you sign it. The idea is that the bank "deposits" your agreement as an asset on their books, and then any credit you use is offset as a liability against that asset. In other words, the core concept here is that you literally borrowed your own money from the credit card bank.

So let's say your balance with ABC Credit Card Bank is $10,000, which you borrowed against the card to make everyday purchases. The scam promoters say all you need to do is notify the bank that you want your original "deposit" back. However, you will permit the bank to offset the amount you borrowed against the amount you have on "deposit." Presto! You don't owe the balance anymore!

Now, as you can imagine, the banks don't take kindly to such tactics. Many of the consumers using this technique are getting sued by their creditors. But the scammers have more tricks available, as if the "smoke and mirrors" financial nonsense wasn't enough. One of their techniques is the use of bogus "arbitration" forums. Arbitration is of course a legitimate system that allows businesses and individuals to resolve disputes without going to court. What do the scammers do? They coach people on how to set up a fake arbitration forum, for the express purpose of making a dispute against their creditors! Naturally, the creditors will not send representatives to some non-existent arbitration forum, so the consumer gets to rubber-stamp their own arbitration award. If they get sued in a regular court, they present their bogus award to the judge in the hopes that the creditor's lawsuit will be dismissed.

There are other techniques used by promoters of this scheme, but the key point to remember is the central claim that your credit card debt does not really exist. Of course, it's all nonsense based on a misinterpretation of our monetary system, and if you step back and think about for a minute, the truth seems pretty obvious. What these scammers are saying is that the entire $700 billion credit card industry is operating on an illegal basis! Even if the legal theory used by the promoters were true (which it isn't), do you think for a moment the government would allow this giant industry to go under? That's exactly what would happen if the promoter's claims were proven true and used on a widespread basis.

The Federal Trade Commission, which has jurisdiction here, hasn't stomped on these con artists yet, but it's only a matter of time. Unfortunately, in the meanwhile, consumers are being bilked out of millions of dollars for a worthless program that will only get them into deep trouble with their creditors. If you are approached by someone offering to wipe away your debts using this system, I strongly recommend you run in the other direction while you hold on tightly to your wallet or purse.

Remember, you can eliminate your debts if you take a disciplined approach to your finances, make a budget and stick to it, and don't use your credit cards unless you can pay off new balances in full each month.

Good luck in your financial future!

Anonymous · Sub: #**216** Replied on 05-21-2008, 03:27 AM

Mobile0311, Your last two posts says it all. Those articles were all I needed. I have been following this forum and researching this company after talking to Larry with FDRS. Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU!!! You have saved me from jumping from the pan into the fire.

Unclewulf, Thank you, too. Clearly you are an intelligent man with a quick wit. Your posts have made me smile in the midst of my despair. :P

Web host, could you track the ip addresses of some of the posts such as "Who Knows", "Piz". Are they coming from the LA area or nearby? Willyammer has already stated that he lives in the area and for reasons Unclewulf has pointed out, it seems likely that he is part of FDRS and very good at what he does.

Good Luck to all in our quest for solvency.

kashzan · Sub: #**217** Replied on 05-21-2008, 05:15 AM

If you do a search in the above box, you will be able to read about the experiences that other members have had with theis company. I believe they have not been great.

mobile0311 · Sub: #**218** Replied on 05-21-2008, 07:39 AM

All in a days work.

Anonymous · Sub: #**219** **FDRS** Replied on 05-21-2008, 02:11 PM

Mobile0311, I have contacted a lawyer and they fired a letter to them, I have contacted the BBB in the state they are "supposingly" in. Not a lot of luck with them.I have sent a letter (certified) requesting a full refund, with the only response of "I quit the program to soon" unable to refund your money....whatever...Trust me I will push this issue and if we can "Open the eyes" of just one person...that will be one less they will scam....Thanks again...The world needs more people like you..God Bless.......

mobile0311 · Sub: #**220** Replied on 05-21-2008, 02:15 PM

Also contact the Federal Trade Commission and the State Attorney General of California.

Attorney General - Bill Lockyer

Attorney General's Office

California Department of Justice
Attn: Public Inquiry Unit
P.O. Box 944255
Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
VOICE - 1-800-952-5225 (Toll-free in CA)
TDY - 1-800-952-5548 (Toll-free in CA)
or (916) 324-5564
FAX - (916) 323-5341

PS....please let me know if you had any luck getting your money back from these con artists

Willyammer · Sub: #**221** Replied on 05-21-2008, 09:30 PM

Thanks, "Action" for allowing us to see what kind of people companies have to deal with. You posted the same response four (4) times!

And as I thought, you panicked and backed out of the program before you giving it a chance to work. You panic and then castigate the company that was working to help you.

You panic.

Willyammer · Sub: #**222** Replied on 05-21-2008, 09:38 PM

mobile0311, thank you so much for the classified ad you posted. While not the best ad, it did serve me in that I got into a class and will hopefully soon be able to help people who are in serious debt.

You remind me of some debates and arguments I've watched, where the person losing the argument reverts to name calling. Your terms like "con artist" ,"scam" and "scammers" fit this pattern.

Perhaps you should let readers make up their own minds with your facts, of which your posts seem to be lacking to the point of total omission. Many opinions. No facts.

Perhaps that is why you brought in someone else to present your argument?

Regarding Phelan's claim "All I ask is for a single verifiable court case where a judge agreed with the "no money lent" argument ...No such case exists, ..." No court case exists indeed, as debt collectors are smart enough to settle before a case gets to court when they are blatantly in the wrong.

I'll check in and let you know how things are going.

Willyammer · Sub: #**223** Replied on 05-21-2008, 10:17 PM

Littlefish, come out of the closet. At least mobile0311 admits that she/he works for FDRSâ€™ competition. Donâ€™t you want to do the same?

And thanks for the compliment.

The way I got â€œvery good at what I doâ€ is by actually looking into the posts instead of just taking someoneâ€™s sound bite at face value.

Normally, I wouldnâ€™t care what a forum writer says but it truly upsets me when people give opinions, donâ€™t post any facts but only post to flame a person and/or a company. You should have better things to do â€“ unless, as I suspect, you do work for a debt consolidator.

It is mostly these fact-free posts that pushed me to check out FDRS and, liking what I see, want to work for them. If I were you, I would look at those flaming posts for what they are and reconsider your recent decision, if you indeed were actually going to work with "Larry".

Web host/forum manager, is it kosher that posters be allowed to post flaming statements without factual backup? Is it ok for people who might know of a similar company yet don't know about a particular company to post negative comments about said particular company?

It certainly doesn't seem right.

mobile0311 · Sub: #**224** Replied on 05-22-2008, 10:48 AM

To simplify matters, let's look at debt companies in terms of three rough categories:

1. debt management plans require 100% repayment of the debt through a structured payment plan. This is what non-profit credit counseling agencies do, as well as for-profit debt consolidators.

2. debt settlement or debt negotiation plans require payment of part of what you owe, usually around 50% or less, with the remainder forgiven by the creditor. Virtually all of these companies operate on a for-profit basis.

3. Debt termination companies claim to wipe away 100% of your debt through special legal procedures, so your total payout consists only of their fees.

Right off the bat, let's cross #3 off the list. Sorry, but this one is a scam. You can recognize this type of company very easily. They make the claim that because of how our monetary system works, you never really borrowed any money in the first place! Their system is based on the false belief that credit card banks are operating illegally by extending credit to you. Absolutely do not give your money to one of these outfits! The fees start at $2,500 and go up from there. I spoke with one fellow who lost $15,000 in this scam.

Folks, there is no free lunch. The only thing such "debt termination services" will do for you is take your money.Their legal theories are total nonsense, and the courts do not recognize their arguments. These are the same people who also claim you don't need to pay your income taxes either. As tempting as it might be to try one of these services, you'll only get yourself in deeper trouble with your creditors.

Willyammer I want to also point out it is more than 5 complaints with the BBB that are major. There 15 unanswered complaints.That basically means that they ignored 15 complaints that the BBB even brought to them.
I also find it a mighty big coincidence that you just happened to live near FDRS and happened to be defending them despite all the negative info we can dish out about this company as well as their so called legit Debt Termination industry. I admitted I work in the credit counseling and settlement industry. Why can`t you just admit that you are an employee or are vested with FDRS. I think that everyone here thinks this is obvious. At least if you admitted it you could try and persuade me on your point of view since you work in that industry. Perhaps you can educate me as to why that program is so superior compared to my industry (which by the way is actually recognized as a legit way to get out of debt according the the FTC ). But since you supposedly " don`t " you have really no leg to stand on but to try and discredit every complaint that is out there.

This company needs to be shut down. If you have been wronged by this company file complaints with the CA Attorney General the Federal Trade Commission. Several other company's in the so called "Debt Termination Industry " have been shut down already. Its only a matter of time before they get shut down as well.

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