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Federal Debt Relief System - Anyone know about them?

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject:

mobile0311, once again, thank you. You are an asset to this community.
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject:

I got the same letter stating a better method for recording calls. Like one previously said it doesnt sound like a scam. Plus I already have been contacted by the credit repair team, and there are section codes that will work to have the remove their negative ratings. So far everything they said they are doing.

This gives me hope. Dont worry I will post my results when I am done, though I think Mike will be the biggest on whether it works. His good reports makes me feel more at ease. But to be honest the patriot movement has allot of their act together, and just because there are scams on debt cancelations doesnt mean FDRS is a scam, to be honest there are TONs of debt consolidation and settlemnt companies that are scams but not all are. The only difference is the BANKS LIKE them and wouldnt like FDRS if they TRULY do work.

Thats only common sense, its in their best interest to keep it a secret if there is a way to cancel debt using the LAW. I think what I see most is people get scared or dont like the message of the BIG Government theme, and hence leave and doing so make things worse for themselves.

Mobile I will post my trail on this and I HOPE you wont say I work for FDRS if it does work. lol I know you wont if it doesnt. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: hope this helps

i went through a company that was a lot of help they helped me reduce my debts from 51,250.00 down to about 12,500 they were also very nice i think the website was w w w . state farms financial .or g
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: fdrs scam

me and my girlfriend were in the fdrs program for 3 months.we hardly ever heard from them,and when we did make contact with them it was a joke.one of her accounts(my girlfriend)sent a letter to be sued.
we contacted the fdrs they sent us paperwork from the (ccdn) to fill out and bring to the courts.i asked the fdrs to send me copies of what they are supposed to be sending to our creditors and they told me they cant,lol.i told them im paying you ,your using my name on the paperwork and you say i cant see whats being sent out.so i asked if i could speak to the guy who signed us up.they told me no,lol.
thay said he moved to another department.i had words with them.they were very rude to me and hung up.what they did'ny know is that i had gotten friendly with the guy who signed us up so i called him on his cell phone and told him and asked him whats going on.he told me he quit that morning because he had lots of questions for the owner(mark cella)he was uneasy about the way they were conducting their business.he basicly told me they were a scam company and that he did'nt know and that he felt bad about all the people he had signed into the company who lost money.my loss was(2,600.00)since than i cancelled my program with them about a week and a half ago and they have not even called me to ask why.this company is a fraud this guy is a crook. we all work hard for our money ,lets just not give it away to scum like this that rip off hard working people.another funny thig i can still call the company today and ask for the guy who signed me up and they will tell me the same thing,that he 's in another department and that i cant speak to him. he's been gone for about 3 to 4 weeks.oh before i left the company they left a message on my machine telling me the name of my new rep.when i told the ex employee he said noone by that name works there. just warning everyone who looks in to this company ,stay away.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject:

I'm a little confused...I have been in the program for 6 months and i still haven't encountered any of that...How in the world did that happen in only 3 months??? The creditors haven't even moved in that direction yet and I haven't paid them for over 7 months...What was your first rep's name? Mine left as well...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject:

By the way...if I had trade secrets that worked, and I knew they would be copied if I showed them to anyone, I wouldn't release them either! I don't blame them for not giving me or you a copy. However, one of my creditors did reference a letter they received from me (really FDRS) and they said they were responding to it (still haven't received it 2 months later)...so I know they are sending them!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Yes same here, I had the creditors both respond one in writing another with calls about the letters that were sent. so they do send the letters. plus they seem to keep copies of all the documents for the legal team, I think that is why you fax all docs to them.

I know a person should keep a record of all your letters anyway which should be enough as the letters FDRS send probably arent anything too big, its the legal dept that is what will work or not. imo

I am about 4 months in the program, and havent had the problem at all either, My rep is still there and imo is a honest patiot, infact everyone I spoke to there was a patriot.

I have no idea if the program works, I assume that if it didnt after about 2 years if not more ofbeing in business that the BBB would be loaded with alot more complaints than it is. There are lots in the patriot movement and I am sure a LARGE number have used or is using this program. I owuld have NEVER heard of FDRS if it wasnt for a trusted site, so I THINK a few people who know NOTHING of whats going on sign on get scared or dont believe the info and then leave.

I also think Reps are out there for the Banks and collection agencies which sometimes are the banks (lol) that want to stop this movement and also the knowledge that what the banks are doing is ILLEGAL by Federal laws.

Some good downloadable movies I watched that Helped on Google were.

The Money Masters
Loose Change second edition
Police State 1,2,3
Terrorstorm

While one may not agree with everything it does paint a pretty Grim picture of whats going on and does explain some of the behavior of the BANKS, CORPS, and GOVERNMENT over the past few decades.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: It Figures

Haven't checked the board in a long time but now this board is ranked above FDRS'S OWN WEBSITE on google. The stench is rising to the top. So I am looking through all of what is now 20 pages, and I see that the shills can still not keep up with the critics. I know who they are because I USED TO WORK THERE TOO. Everyone who has been suspected of being a shill on here used to work there because everyone there sounds the same! The leader is a paranoid megalomaniac with a Mussolini complex and he is trying to find a group he can brainwash. Now read those last two lines again. The feds are after him. They are about to be sued left and right. This is no joke.

Also, some of the names, like Willy, who works in client care now (but used to be a rep) are similar. LAST POST EVER do not contact me I am not registered.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject:

Haven't checked the board in a long time but now this board is ranked above FDRS'S OWN WEBSITE on google. The stench is rising to the top. So I am looking through all of what is now 20 pages, and I see that the shills can still not keep up with the critics. I know who they are because I USED TO WORK THERE TOO. Everyone who has been suspected of being a shill on here used to work there because everyone there sounds the same! The leader is a paranoid megalomaniac with a Mussolini complex and he is trying to find a group he can brainwash. Now read those last two lines again. The feds are after him. They are about to be sued left and right. This is no joke.

Also, some of the names, like Willy, who works in client care now (but used to be a rep) are similar. LAST POST EVER do not contact me I am not registered.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject:

Thanks helpfulone for the helpful info that only further backs what I have been saying . FDRS is a scam !!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject:

mobile, why do you thank "helpfulone for the helpful info..."??? What was so helpful about that rant? All it was was more conjecture and opinion. Please!

And to be honest, I'm surprised at you. First of all, the Minnesota Bar does not WRITE anything. Members might write articles but the bar in incapable of doing so. Was this piece published in a bar journal? If so, which one? To be honest, hat article could have been published by anyone, anywhere. Even by your company, for instance. Plus, if the author really is a lawyer, his writing skills made me thankful he practices in Minnesota.

As you hopefully know by now, I do some research on occasion. I googled "Michael D. Johnson", "Michael D. Johnson Minnesota", "Michael D. Johnson Lawyer". Found a bunch of people by that name.

But I found no one who is an expert in credit/financial law.

I did find one one estate lawyer, but would he have expertise on credit card law. I apologize for not digging deeper but I tend to fade out after digging through 5 or 6 pages of google links and coming up empty, which is what happened here.

The one case cited in your paste job, Alcorn and Allen v. Washington Mutual Bank, had to do with a mortgage, NOT credit debt. Hence, mortgages do not qualify for the fdrs program.

The rest of the article deals with practices that fdrs does not allow. Yet you go on with your missive "company's like FDRS" (check your plural tense vs apostrophe use there).

Research, people. Just dig a little.

And rangersfan, by "rangersfan", I'm guessing you mean the texas rangers, because you sound kind of like them. Never a winning season.

Lets go Jets!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject:

Here is another article written exposing the FDRS debt termination scam

Quote:
Consumer Alert: The "Credit Card Termination" Scam - Become informed

Selecting a debt solution is an important financial decision, and we want people to choose wisely. Accordingly, consumers should be warned about a relatively new type of scam that has spread via the Internet over the past few years. It usually goes by the name "Credit Card Termination," or some variation on that name, and victims are paying thousands of dollars for this bogus service. I have heard of people being billed of up to $11,000 in this scam, and fees of $2,500 to $5,000 are quite common.

The scheme we're describing here has absolutely nothing to do with legitimate debt settlement (or debt negotiation) or Consumer credit counseling. The most straightforward way to distinguish the "Credit Card Termination" scam from legitimate programs is to realize that the con artists make an impossible claim right up-front. Based on a misinterpretation of obscure banking and accounting rules, they claim that you really don't owe any money to the credit card banks!

With debt consolidation or Credit Counseling, you pay back all of your debt balances in full. With Debt Settlement, you pay back a lower amount (usually 50% or less), while the creditor agrees to forgive the remaining balance. However, the promoters behind the "Credit Card Termination" scam claim that you don't need to pay anything at all (except their huge fees, of course)! They claim you can wipe away your debts forever with a few simple documents that magically prove you really didn't borrow any money from your creditors.

This scheme has its roots in the income tax protest movement of the 1970s, where people were claiming that paying taxes was unconstitutional. Among professionals in the collection industry, the "Credit Card Termination" scam is called the "monetary protest movement." The common theme with these programs is that our banking system prohibits banks from lending out their own money. So how does a credit card bank extend credit then? The protesters claim that the credit card agreement itself becomes a form of money the moment you sign it. The idea here is that the bank "deposits" your agreement as an asset on their books, and then any credit you use is offset as a liability against that asset. In other words, the core concept here is that you literally borrowed your own money from the credit card bank! The scam promoters claim that all you need to do to wipe out your debt is demand your original "deposit" back from the bank, which will be offset against what you borrowed. This is truly "smoke and mirrors" nonsense!

There are other tricks used by the scammers, like bogus arbitration forums, special letters, and phony financial forms. But again, it's all nonsense based on a misinterpretation of our financial and accounting system. As you can imagine, the banks are not too happy about this scam, and consumers have been getting sued aggressively by their creditors after trying this technique. Hopefully, the government will shut down these shady operators soon, the way the IRS shut down the tax protesters. Meanwhile, if you're approached by someone claiming you can completely walk away from your obligations by using their special documents, steer clear!

There is simply no comparison between this scam and the legitimate techniques of Debt Settlement and Credit Counseling. Through the process of negotiation, a compromise is worked out on your behalf with each of your creditors, on a pace that your budget can handle. It's an honest and ethical solution to excessive personal debt that allows for a win-win scenario between you and your creditors. The key point here is that you must still honor that agreement! You still have to do your part to fund the program, and no one is promising you an overnight cure for your debt problem. But if you're looking for a viable alternative to bankruptcy, you owe it to yourself to consider Debt Settlement or Credit Counseling as your chosen debt solution.


How do you like those apples Willy ? Unlike you I actually post on other subjects trying to help other people with debt issues. All you seem to do is just argue in the defense of the scammers at FDRS. You have not made a single other post here to contribute to helping other people with debt problems. NOT ONE. All you do is argue about an industry you know nothing about since you supposedly don`t work for them and also since they supposedly have such super secret way of doing things. Give it a rest. I have done a ton of research on the subject of Debt Termination and there is a reason the FTC doesn`t recognize it as legit. They are telling people to be patriotic by arguing that they didn`t actually owe the debt and they should not repay the banks. The are spouting conspiracy theory garbage. Thats called FRAUD. Thats why the banks don`t like Debt Termination scams because its fraud.They are telling people be unethical and immoral by not attempting to repay what they borrowed. All that does is get them sued. There is no magic pill that you can take to make the debt go away. FDRS preys on desperate people looking for an easy way out.

By the way why would you insult someone who might be a Rangers fan because they are horrible. Besides they may also be a New York Rangers hockey fan. Either way you have no room to talk. Especially when you are a Jets fan. They have only won a single Super Bowl EVER and that was way back in 1969 when Joe Willie Namath was their QB. Their record last year of 4-12 was a joke , just like FDRS.

Oh and by the way the owner of FDRS Mark Cella used to own another company who had a F rating with the BBB called CAREFREE DEBT, INC. and it had registered the dba “Federal debt relief System” until 2007. On 5/22/07, there’s a FDRS dba filing for:

William Kelley (Trustee)
Frank W McGinnis
2915 W. Charleston Blvd. Las Vegas, NV 89147

However, it wasn’t published and is probably void. The reason I’m posting it here is because Kelly and McGinnis are or at least were involved.

On 5/26/07, Mark Cella filed another dba for FDRS:

Mark A Cella
5426 N Dubonnet Ave
San Gabriel, CA 91776 (this appears to be a home address, at least it’s not a private mail service.)

Is it just me is does this seem just a little shady ?

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FTC
State Attorney Generals
www.bbb.org


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject:

it was not conjecture and opinion. Check out my previous posts wayyyy near the beginning. It was fact. I used to work there. Dammit Willy you made me repost.
Mobile is on the right track, as well. The point is, the program works, and I KNOW it does, but the company and the people behind it are shady! There are other companies out there that process through these attorneys and others that use this method! Stay away from FDRS and find someone else to do the program for you!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject:

Oye. Helpfulone, you confuse me. You say the program works but advise people to stay away? Yikes!!! NOT very helpful, I would say.

Total U.S. consumer revolving debt reached $904 billion in June 2007, up from $879 billion at the end of 2006 (Source: Federal Reserve).

Now add mortgages and other secured debt (automobile loans, for instance). Please tell me, mobie, where did the banks get that money to loan? From deposits? From cash on hand? The US government has not created that much money.

If you or I tried to make $$ out of thin air like the banks do, we would be in jail.

"How do you like those apples Willy?" Sounds like I touched a raw nerve, mobie. I did notice that you didn’t say anything to defend your last shady post yet you did whine about what I’d said about rangersfan. Strange.

"Unlike you I actually post on other subjects trying to help other people with debt issues. All you seem to do is just argue in the defense of the scammers at FDRS. You have not made a single other post here to contribute to helping other people with debt problems. NOT ONE."
Please pay attention, mobie. I said this before, at least twice –(I'll say it again, v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-ly... just for you) I am not here to offer advice, because I don’t know enough about $$, otherwise I wouldn’t be on this site. I came looking for advice, not clients (like others pushing their company’s solutions [mobie, for instance]).

I saw an ad about this company. It sounded a bit farfetched. So I looked up FDRS on google. I found this forum and this string in that search. I was surprised by the amount of fact-free rants and flying opinions so I did some not-so-deep research into what people were posting. Most if not all of what I read proved that it is easy to be negative without the facts, the way politicians throw out sound bites for people to believe, not matter how false.

“Thats why the banks don`t like Debt Termination scams because its fraud.” Are you serious? If you really are in the credit business, you know better than that.

Banks sell off loans as soon as they feel they are uncollectable. They then write off the loss that they sold it for (tax benefits) and they come out ahead of the game (they’ve usually collected years of interest, rates of which they can legally raise, often for whatever reason they want to- there are plenty of horror stories of this practice).

Here's a fair way to tackle the debt problem: Give people hope that they can pay off their debt. You do this by limiting the interest rates banks can charge (a point or 2 over the rate the Fed charges teh banks), eliminate the deceptive fees banks are allowed to charge, and cut that small print/twisted english crap that banks use. And STOP allowing banks to give credit cards to people who have credit trouble.

The way it is now, the rules favor the big boys with all the money and power. But then again, maybe you like it that way. It's what keeps food on your table.

And leave the JETS alone. They are consistently one of the worst organizations in professional sports, which make them the best at being the worst.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject:

That last post was mine - site said I was logged in on one page but when I went to write/post that, it showed me as "guest".

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject:

Here is yet another article discussing how Debt Termination is a scam. Hopefully this will help prevent those of you out there from getting scammed from FDRS. The definition of Fraud = deliberate deception or cheating intended to gain an advantage. When you borrow money from a bank and you try to claim that you don`t owe the money that is fraud. I'll say it again, v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-ly . I used to work in the Credit Card industry and we sued people for fraud when they tried to pull that "no money lent garbage ". If you or I tried to make $$ out of thin air like the banks do, we would be in jail. Uh duh , thats why the banking industry is heavily regulated and you must have a banking license to be allowed to do so. Just like some one could go to jail for practicing law or medicine without a license. Sorry but the law is on the side of the banks whether you conspiracy theorists like it or not. Willy have you even read the contracts for FDRS ? I have.They charge a fee of 30 % of the debt they are handling , plus a $25 dollar monthly fee. Here is the kicker. Approximately 20 % of this service fee amount will be paid upon acceptance into the program service. Gee I wonder why they want most of the fees up front. Ummmm ...could it be because FDRS wants most the money before the client realizes they are being conned out of their hard earned money.


Quote:
On the Edge
American Bankruptcy Institute Journal, Jun 2005 by Thompson, Judy D, Newman, Stephen J, Robl, Michael D, Jurs, S Andrew

Fighting Bogus Arbitrations

As consumers' use of credit cards increases, Internet scammers have found a large market of people willing to ignore the truism that "if something is too good to be true, it probably is." These scammers promise consumers a supposedly easy and lawful way to eliminate their credit card debts. Sadly, the worst victims of the scam are usually those consumers who are most in debt and who can ill-afford to pay what little free cash they have to a con artist.

The scam web sites use a number of different claims and arguments to reach the same conclusion: that the person can be instantly freed from debt and does not have to pay his creditors. Even if not meritorious, these arguments have the effect of delaying collection or causing creditors to cease collection because the amount to be collected is not worth the hassle or cost of collection. The latest strategy is to use multiple alleged legal theories to obtain bogus arbitration awards that the debtors then try to confirm against their creditors and thus eliminate their debts.

"Scam" Legal Theories

1. "No Money Lent." A widely circulated Internet scam is based on the argument that no money was lent by the bank to the debtor. The premise behind this argument is that because the bank only lent "credit" to the debtor instead of money, the debtor does not need to repay the bank with actual money. As stated by the web site zerooutdebt.com:

When you sign for a credit card or home loan, the bank uses your signature as your "promise to pay," and that signature, that "promise to pay," is considered a valuable asset to the bank. Just like the U.S. bonds; bonds are simply the government's promise to pay [sic]. So, based on the valuable asset you just gave to the bank (for free), the bank uses that asset to create new money; they call it credit money (I call it debt money). They actually open an account and immediately fund it, from out of thin air, with the limit of your credit card contract or the value of the loan.

The fact is that the bank did not LOAN you any money. It did not experience any decrease in its assets. Even when it paid the seller for your house. It paid the seller out of the VALUE that was deposited, namely, your promissory note. Follow the logic: YOU paid the seller with your signature and promise to pay; the bank did not pay the seller as the bank never gave up anything of value, but YOU did. The ONLY value that was brought into this contract was your promise to pay. The bank never brought anything of value to the table at all. Only YOU did. The seller was paid by YOU, not the bank, by your "promise" to pay.

On a $100,000 loan, your promissory note immediately became a valuable asset worth $100,000. You gave the bank an asset that was worth $100,000, and the bank turned around and used that asset to create new money in order to pay the seller. Now the bank wants you to pay them again another $100,000, plus interest. Over a 30-year period, you will have paid $300,000-400,000. But where is the loan? There never was an actual loan. And this was not disclosed to you, which is against the law. (Truth in lending-what was lent?)

Thus, according to the "no money lent" argument, the debtor not only does not owe any money, but the debtor is in fact entitled to a claim against the lender for the largest amount of credit extended by the bank. This argument can also be restated as saying that the bank did not provide any "consideration" to the debtor. This is based on the proposition that if the bank only lent credit to the debtor, then the bank did not risk any of its own funds and there was no consideration on which to base a contract for repayment.1

2. Truth in Lending. Once the debtor accepts the proposition that no money was actually lent, it is a short distance to believing that the debtor's creditors have violated the Truth in Lending Act and/or other consumer protection laws. The violation purportedly occurs when the creditor fails to disclose the purported material fact that the creditor did not risk any of its assets and only lent credit.

Again, this argument ignores the fact that a creditor does not have to lend money directly to a debtor to create a liability. Often, in the face of a demand that the person state specifically what portion of the Truth in Lending Act has been violated, the debtor cannot support such a claim. Instead, the debtors are using broad allegations of fraud and misrepresentation in order to create doubt as to liability.

Bogus Arbitrations

1. Introduction to the Process. Because no court ever has accepted the previous arguments, the web sites ingeniously have created a strategy to sidestep the court system. The web sites have done so by attempting to use arbitration clauses, standard provisions in most credit card agreements, to support the "no-money-lent" scheme.

Typically, a consumer starts the bogus arbitration process by sending the credit card company a letter disputing the debt and purporting to change the terms of the credit agreement by naming a new arbitration forum as the place to resolve the dispute. In many of the bogus arbitration scams, these letters include a nominal payment and assert the existence of an "accord and satisfaction" if the consumer's check is cashed. The consumers' letters to their lenders typically state that cashing such a check constitutes acceptance of an offer to arbitrate any and all disputes between the lender and the consumer. Note, however, that the typical credit card agreement contains a provision expressly prohibiting the consumer from evading his debt by including statements like "accord and satisfaction" or "paid in full" on a check. The consumers and the bogus arbitration firms typically do not address this contractual provision.

Most likely, the new arbitration forum will have an official sounding name and be located far away from both the lender and the debtor. For example, in one case, the debtor, an Iowa resident, sent a letter to his credit card company, based in New Jersey, stating that he contested his debt, that he intended to tender a partial payment as full satisfaction of his debt and that he demanded arbitration of the dispute by an arbitration forum in North Carolina. This dispute letter contains identical language to other dispute letters received by the lender from other parts of the country involving other arbitration groups.


A lender's response to such an "accord and satisfaction" letter should be to advise the consumer and the purported arbitration firm that the arbitration firm is not authorized to conduct an arbitration under the relevant provisions of the credit card agreement.

Whether or not any response to the "accord and satisfaction" letter is received, however, debtors using the bogus arbitration method then send a "Notice of Arbitration" that purports to bind the creditor and force it to participate under the threat of default. The arbitrators in these cases generally refuse to conduct the arbitrations in person, but rely instead only on submissions from the parties. In fact, the arbitrators may refuse to allow any communication except through their web site. One North Carolina arbitration forum advises those who receive its letters: "Do not attempt to call or fax." Similarly, another purported arbitration forum in New York did not have its address, fax number or telephone number on its web site, and its only method of contact was through the web site.

The arbitration forums also make it difficult to inquire about the identities of the arbitrators themselves. The Notices of Arbitration may simply contain a name and identify the arbitrator as an attorney, but there is little or no additional detail regarding the arbitrators or their qualifications. In many cases, a bogus "award" is issued even before the lender is aware that the consumer has initiated the proceeding. Sometimes the lender's first knowledge of the bogus award is when the consumer seeks to interpose it as a defense to a collection action.

The end result of the bogus arbitrations usually involves an award to the debtor based on the "no money lent" theory in the amount of the default or the highest credit limit. Courts have declined to enforce these bogus arbitration awards. For example, a California judge took a strong stand against this kind of fraud in Edward A. Seller v. MBNA.2 In this case, the petitioner sought to evade payment of a credit card debt by filing a petition to confirm a phony award issued by the "Consumer Arbitration Forum." When the judge became suspicious that the petition to confirm had never been properly served, the judge determined "that the Consumer Arbitration Forum could not be located by a telephone number in its purported place of existence."1 The judge ultimately found that the attempt to confirm the bogus award constituted "one of the more palpable efforts of an individual to abuse the processes of the courts," that the petitioner "attempted to deceive the court" through his participation in a "sham enterprise" and that the petition was "totally and completely without merit and filed solely to harass" the credit card issuer.

In spite of an increasing number of favorable rulings, the bogus arbitration scam presents an ongoing hassle for creditors and their attempts to collect, costs creditors money to defend and wastes the courts' time.

Combating Bogus Arbitrations

Faced with the alternative of separately defending against each sham "award," some lenders have taken the offensive and filed suit against the bogus arbitration firms. Some lawsuits seek injunctions against the arbitration forums that can be identified and served. The following are some strategies creditors can employ in dealing with the bogus arbitration firms.

1. Defeating the "Accord and Satisfaction" Theory. A party cannot be forced to arbitrate when it did not agree to do so. "Arbitration is a matter of contract, and a party cannot be required to submit to arbitration any dispute which he has not agreed so to submit."5 Although the procedures for enforcing an arbitration agreement or collecting an arbitration award are often governed by the Federal Arbitration Act and similar state statutes, the agreement to arbitrate in the first instance is a matter of contract, and the courts generally apply state law principles governing the formation of contracts when deciding whether parties agreed to arbitrate.6

Although the consumers assert the theory of accord and satisfaction to replace the original credit card or loan agreement with a new arbitration right, there cannot be an agreement to arbitrate when the parties have not reached an accord. section 3-311 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) defines when an "accord and satisfaction" exists and provides that accord and satisfaction requires three elements. First, the consumer must tender an instrument (i.e., a check) in good faith for full satisfaction of a creditor's claim. second, the creditor's claim must be unliquidated or subject to a bona fide dispute. Third, the creditor must obtain actual payment. Consumer debt arbitration scams fail the second and third prongs of the test for a valid accord and satisfaction under U.C.C. §3-311.
"Good faith" is defined in the UCC at §l0 -103(a)(4) as "honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing." Consumer claims that lenders created money out of thin air and similar claims should fail to meet the good-faith test on their face. Similarly, there is no bona fide dispute in the consumer credit scam arbitrations. The consumers actually received goods or services that they charged to their credit cards, and the consumers did not assert that the goods or services were defective or wrongly provided, or any similar defenses. Consumers' claims that lenders created credit out of thin air do not constitute bona fide disputes. It is not a "good faith" dispute simply to offer to pay less than an amount that is admittedly borrowed.7 "[TJhere is no bona fide dispute where it is clear what amount is owed and the dispute centers on whether the debt is owed at all."8 When a debtor does not dispute receiving goods or services, but merely does not want to pay for them, the debtor is not released from its obligations simply because it used the phrase "accord and satisfaction" in connection with a payment.

2. Obtaining Declaratory Relief. The creditor may seek an order pursuant to the federal Declaratory Judgment Act, 28 U.S.C. §2201, or comparable state statute, declaring that any and all arbitration "awards" issued by the bogus arbitration firm are null and void as a matter of law. There is essentially only one element to a declaratory relief cause of action -"the existence of an actual, present controversy over a proper subject."10

There is little doubt that an actual controversy exists concerning the legal duties and rights of the parties in these types of actions. The creditors contend that the "awards" are meritless and unenforceable since there is no contractual agreement between the parties to have the bogus firm arbitrate disputes. On the other hand, the bogus firms (if they appear to defend themselves at all) contend that the "awards" are legitimate and lawful.

In many cases, there exists no agreement between the parties authorizing arbitration before the bogus firms. In some instances, the creditors inform the bogus firms long before awards are issued that the creditor had not agreed, and would not agree, to arbitrate any borrower disputes before the bogus firm. The bogus firms' issuance of sham "awards" in the face of the creditors' non-consent is unlawful, and such "awards" are clearly invalid and not binding on the creditors. Arbitration is a matter of contract, and a party cannot be required to submit to arbitration any dispute that she or he has not agreed so to submit." Where there is no agreement to arbitrate before a particular firm, the creditor should thus be entitled to a determination to that effect and stating that no arbitration awards issued by the firm are valid.

A more sophisticated argument sometimes seen is that, although the borrowers agreed to submit to arbitration, they did not agree to arbitrate with the firms listed in the agreement. Because this part of the arbitration agreement is unconscionable, they say, borrowers are free unilaterally to choose a different (and bogus) arbitration firm to handle their disputes. There is a certain inherent sauce-for-the-goose logic to this argument, but it is fundamentally flawed because it conflicts with basic principles of arbitration law. Specifically, where there is a dispute as to who may arbitrate a dispute, the court must appoint an arbitrator.12 Thus, the borrower may not simply impose his choice of arbitrator upon the creditor in violation of express terms of the agreement.

3. Injunctive Relief and Intentional Interference with Contractual Relations. While the creditors can challenge each "award" separately and engage in appropriate legal action to vacate the "award" and/or reconfirm the borrower's debt, those endeavors are costly and inefficient. In this respect, the common law tort of "intentional interference with contract" may be helpful.

In one action, a lender successfully obtained an order from the U.S. District Court for the District of Idaho permanently enjoining one bogus "firm" from engaging in the bogus arbitration scheme.13 The permanent injunction enjoined the arbitration firm and its registered agent from, among other things, (1) conducting any arbitration proceedings involving the lender's credit card customers, (2) accepting any arbitration demands involving the lender's credit card customers (3) issuing or attempting to enforce any arbitration "awards" involving the lender, (4) interfering directly or indirectly in any way with any relationships between the lender and its credit card customers and (5) advising, teaching, transferring and/or supporting any other person or entity on how to form and/or operate an arbitration entity that purports to arbitrate matters involving the lender and its credit card customers.
Generally speaking, injunctive relief is available upon a showing of a combination of (1) probable success on the merits, (2) possibility of irreparable injury, (3) inadequacy of the remedy at law and (4) multiplicity of suits.14 These conditions are plainly satisfied in the case of repeated presentation of bogus arbitration awards.

The elements that a plaintiff must plead to state the cause of action for intentional interference with contractual relations are "(1) a valid contract between plaintiff and a third party, (2) defendant's knowledge of this contract, (3) defendant's intentional acts designed to induce a breach or disruption of the contractual relationship, (4) actual breach or disruption of the contractual relationship and (5) resulting damage."15 To "establish the claim, the plaintiff need not prove that a defendant acted with the primary purpose of disrupting the contract, but must show the defendant's knowledge that the interference was certain or substantially certain to occur as a result of his or her action."16

The bogus arbitration firms knowingly and intentionally interfere with and cause the disruption of the creditor's contractual relationship with its borrowers by (1) assisting the borrowers to serve unauthorized and ineffective "amendments" to their credit card agreements, (2) accepting unauthorized "arbitration" demands from borrowers in knowing violation of the governing credit card agreement, (3) facilitating borrowers' attempts to avoid their debts by conducting phantom "mailbox arbitrations" without any contractual authorization and (4) issuing sham arbitration "awards" on the basis of false statements and misrepresentations in violation of the governing credit card agreement. Indeed, these "awards" often are entered in favor of borrowers who are, or were, being sued by the creditor as a result of the borrowers' failure to pay the outstanding balance due on their credit card accounts. The borrowers often refuse to pay the debts owing on their accounts because of the phony "awards," and the creditors lose money legitimately owed to them.

The harm caused the creditors by this scheme is obvious. As a result of the interference, the companies are forced separately and repeatedly, at significant inconvenience and expense, to defend against the meritless arbitration "awards" and demonstrate that such "awards" are null and void as a matter of law. The schemes also harm creditors because the legitimate collection efforts are hindered and delayed. Absent injunctive relief, the companies will continue to suffer inconvenience and expense. "Being compelled to arbitrate a claim in the absence of an agreement to arbitrate that claim constitutes an irreparable injury."17

The sham "awards" do in fact interfere with and disrupt the relationships of the creditors and their borrowers. Taking the position that the "awards" exonerate them from their contractual obligations to pay the debts owing on their accounts, the borrowers fail to pay their debts and the creditors lose money legitimately owed to them. Thereafter, the companies incur additional legal expense in defending against the "awards" on top of the monies expended in collection of the debts owing on the accounts.
Finally, as a practical matter, there exists no adequate remedy at law, for it is impossible for creditors to determine the precise amount of damages in the form of increased costs and expenses that they will incur in the future from the continued misconduct. Absent injunctive relief, the companies will continue to suffer as an unknown number of future borrowers will fail to pay or will delay paying their debts because of the bogus arbitration firms' unlawful and improper conduct. Ultimately, the misconduct of the bogus arbitration firms injures the creditors' reputation in the marketplace.

Grounds for equitable relief, such as inadequacy of the remedy at law and a multiplicity of suits, exist. In issuing the "awards," the bogus firms are engaged in ongoing and continuing interference with the creditors' relationships with their borrowers. Although the exact pecuniary impact of this interference is difficult to predict, history shows that this conduct has been, and continues to be, disruptive to contractual relationships with borrowers. Moreover, the bogus arbitration schemes are disruptive irrespective of their financial impact. Indeed, "[e]vidence of threatened loss of prospective customers or goodwill certainly supports a finding of the possibility of irreparable harm."18 Finally, it would be wasteful and inefficient for the creditors to need to sue each bogus firm separately for each sham arbitration "award" that a firm separately issues.

4. Monetary Relief. Given the type of harm suffered, the exact pecuniary damage suffered as a result of the misconduct of the bogus arbitration firms can be difficult to quantify. However, "the fact that the amount thereof may be difficult of exact measurement, or subject to various possible contingencies, does not bar a recovery."19 Likewise, "the law only requires that some reasonable basis of computation be used and will allow damages so computed, even if the result reached is only an approximation."20

With this standard in mind, monetary damages essentially are composed of (1) the legal costs incurred in separately defending against the numerous sham "awards" issued by each bogus firm, (2) the loss of money owed to a creditor when borrowers refuse to pay the amounts owing on their accounts on the grounds that the "award" exonerates them from their contractual obligations to pay the balance due and owing, and (3) the damage to the creditors' relationship with their borrowers and overall reputation in the marketplace attributable to the bogus firms' misconduct.
5. Deceptive Trade Practices Acts. Another alternative is to bring suit under various state unfair and deceptive trade practices acts.21 Although these statutes often are used by consumers against businesses, their terms do not limit them to that context. Indeed, the action fundamentally is a consumer protection suit because bogus arbitration schemes ultimately harm consumers by denuding them of funds at a time when they can ill-afford to lose them.

Strong arguments exist to the effect that the bogus arbitration firms' conduct is "unlawful," "unfair," "fraudulent," "deceptive" or "unconscionable" in that the firms purport to bind creditors to an arbitration process that has not been agreed to, they assert jurisdiction over the creditors when they clearly have no right to arbitrate any claims involving the issuers and they purport to be an objective arbitration process when, in fact, they are a complete sham. Moreover, the bogus firms defraud consumers by charging them for a service that-usually after extensive litigation-proves worse than worthless, as consumers are typically liable for the increased collection costs associated with responding to the bogus awards. Thus, a violation of state unfair trade practices acts potentially may be proven regardless of what the particular creditor-borrower contract says. Moreover, these statutes typically provide for broad injunctive relief.

Conclusion

The end result is that creditors must take timely and aggressive action in responding to bogus arbitration notices. In particular, legal tools exist so that creditors can attack the problem directly by initiating actions against the bogus arbitration entity. Concomitantly, the creditors also can advise the relevant state attorney general offices and the relevant state bar organizations of the fraud being worked on their citizens. Statutory relief may ultimately be necessary to provide more effective tools for responding to this nationwide problem. Defeating these arbitration scams at their source is necessary, however, because unfortunately, the scams will continue as long as persons in financial distress are willing to believe anything-no matter how unbelievable-that promises an easy escape from debt.

1 A similar theory is that where funds are advanced electronically, only "vapor money" is advanced, and the borrower is not required to repay such vapor money with "real" money. The alleged perpetrators of one of these schemes recently were referred by a federal judge for criminal prosecution; an attorney allegedly involved in the scheme was referred to the California State Bar by the federal judge for disciplinary proceedings. see The Frances Kelley Family Trust v. World Savings Bank FSB, No. C 04-03724 WHA (N.D. CaL Jan. 19, 2005).

2 Ethmrd A. Seller v. MBNA, No. CIV 434652 (CaL Super. Ct.. San MaIeoCnty..Dec.5,2003).

3 Id. at 3.

4 Id. at 4.6.7.

5 AT & T Techs. Inc. v. Communications Workers of America, 475 U-S. 643.548(1986).

6 First Options of Chicago Inc. v. Kaplan,514 U ,S. 938,944 (1995).

7 Baillia Lumber Co. Inc. v. Kincaid Carolina Corp., 4 N.C. App. 342, 167S.E.2d85(1969).

8 Scdona Development Group Inc. v. Merrillvilk Road, 801 N.E.2d 1274, 1278 (Ind. App. 2004) (citing Gord Indus. Plastics Inc. v. Aubrey Mfg. Inc.,431 N.E.2d445,448 (III. App. 1982)).

9 Glover v. Sumyboy Produce Co. Inc., 2001 WL 1807404, *2 (Pa. Com. Pl. 2001). see, also, Pierola v. Moschonas, 687 A.2d 942, 948 (D.C. App. 1997) (part satisfaction of a fixed debt is not consideration for accord and satisfaction as there is a preexisting duty to pay absent a bona fide or honest dispute); Ward v. Richards & Rossano Inc., 51 Wash. App. 423, 429, 754 P.2d 120, 125 (1988) (the offerer of an accord must have a "bona fide belief in the validity of his or her position with respect to the claim"); Product Advancement Corp. v. Paducah Box & Baskel Co., 114 F. Supp. 25, 27 (W.D. Ky. 1953) ("where the facts show clearly a certain sum to be due from one person to another, a release of the entire sum upon payment of part is without consideration").
10 Californians for Native Salmon and Steelhead Association v. Department of Forestry, 221 Cal. App. 3d 1419. 1426 (1990); see, also, Baird v. State, 574 P.2d 713, 715-16 (1978) ("justiciable controversy" relates to "an actual conflict between interested parties asserting adverse claims on an accrued state of facts as opposed to a hypothetical state of facts").

11 AT&T Tech. Inc. v. Communication Workers of Am., 475 U.S. 643, 648 ( 1986); United Steelworkers of Am. v. Warrior & Gulf Navigation Co., 363 U.S. 574, 582 (1960); Czarina LLC v. Wf. Poe Syndicate, 358 F.3d 1286, 1293 (11th Cir. 2004) ("[A]rbitration is a creature of contract, and thus the powers of an arbitrator extend only as far as the parties have agreed they will extend."); Francesco's B. Inc., v. Hotel and Rest. Employees and Bartenders Union, Local 28, 659 F.2d 1383, 1387 (9th Cir. 1981) ("The duty to arbitrate depends solely on the contractual agreement of the parties to settle their disputes in that manner."); R.J. O'Brien & Assoc. Inc. v. Pipkin, 64 F.3d 257, 263 (7th Cir. 1995) (arbitrator must have been "chosen in conformance with the procedures specified in the parties' agreement to arbitrate."); Cargill Rice Inc. v. Empresa Nicaraguenses Dealtmentos Basicos, 25 F.3d 223, 226 (4th Cir. 1994) ("Arbitration awards made by arbitrators not appointed under the method provided in the parties' contract must be vacated").

12 See 9 U.S.C. §5 ("if for any other reason there shall be a lapse in the naming of an arbitrator or arbitrators or umpire, or in filling a vacancy, then upon the application of either party to the controversy the court shall designate and appoint an arbitrator or arbitrators or umpire, as the case may require, who shall act under the said agreement with the same force and effect as if he or they had been specifically named therein"); Brown v. ITT Consumer Fin. Corp., 211 F.3d 1217, 1222 (11th Cir. 2000) ("Where the chosen forum is unavailable, however, or has failed for some reason, [9 U.S.C.] §5 applies and a substitute arbitrator may be named" by a court).

13 See Tech Solutions LLC v. Bank One Delaware NA et al.,Ccase No. C1V-04-494S-EJL (D. Idaho Dec. 17, 2004).

14 See Weinberger v. Romero-Barcelo, 456 U.S. 305, 312 (1982); Sluhlbarg Intern. Sales Co. Inc. v. John D. Bruch & Co. Inc.. 240 F.3d 832,841 (9th Cir. 2001); Johnson & Johnson Vision Care Inc. v. 1-800 Contacts Inc., 299 F.3d 1242, 1246-47 (11th Cir. 2002).

15 Pacific Gas & Electric Co. v. Bear Stearns & Co., 50 Cal. 3d 1118, 1126 (1990). Accord, Johnson Enterprises of Jacksonville Inc. v. FPL Croup Inc., 162 F.3d 1290, 1321(11th Cir. 1998) (listing similar elements).

16 Reeves, 33 Cal. 4th at 1148.

17 MONY Sec. Corp. v. Bornstein, No. 2:02cv9FTM29DNF, 2002 WL 32153368, at *1 (M.D. Fla. Feb. 8, 2002).

18 Stuhlberg Int'l. Sales Co. v. John D. Brush and Co., 240 F.3d 832, 841 (9th Cir. 2001).

19 Noble v. Tweedy, 90 Cal. App. 2d 738, 745 (1949).

20 Allen v. Gardner, 126 Cal. App. 2d 335, 340 (1954).

21 See, e.g., Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code §17200, Fla. Stats. §501.201.

22 See Committee on Children's Television Inc. v. General Foods Corp., 35 Cal. 3d 197, 210 (1983) (interpreting California's Unfair Competition Law: "The legislature apparently intended to permit courts to enjoin ongoing wrongful business conduct in whatever context such activity might occur"); Mack v. Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., 673 So. 2d 100 (Fla. 1st Dist. Ct. App. 1996) (interpreting Florida Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act: Conduct that "offends established public policy" and is "immoral, unethical, oppressive, unscrupulous or substantially injurious to consumers" violates the law).

Contributing Editor:

Judy D. Thompson

Poyner & Spruill LLP; Charlotte, N.C.

jdthompson @poynerspruill .com

Also Written by:

Stephen J. Newman

Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP; Lay Angeles

snewman@stroock.com

Michael D. Robl

Thomerson, Spears & Robl LLC; Atlanta

mdrobl@tsrlaw.com

S. Andrew Jurs

Poyner & Spruill LLP; Charlotte, N.C.

sajurs@poynerspruill.com




Willy ,I am sorry you don`t believe my last article I posted but yes it was real.
Official Publication of the Minnesota State Bar Association
Vol. 61, No. 3 | March 2004

Here is the website so you can read em and weep.

www2.mnbar.org/benchandbar/2004/march04/internet_scams.htm Very Happy

_________________
Scammed ? File complaints at these links
FBI
FTC
State Attorney Generals
www.bbb.org


Losing doesn't make me want to quit. It makes me want to fight that much harder. - Paul "Bear" Bryant
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