My first DV - Zwicker thru AMEX

My very first DV letter. Please review and correct. Thx!


This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice dated xxxx sent to me. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested. Debt collectors cease collection of a debt until verification is mailed to consumers.
This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.
As per the FDCPA, I have the right to request a validation of this debt. I request you to prove that I am indeed the party who is by contract obligated to pay off this debt.

Please attach copies of the following documents:

1. Agreement with your client that authorizes you to collect on this alleged debt.
2. Agreement that bears signature of the alleged debtor wherein he promises to pay the creditor.
3. Complete payment history on this account so as to prove that the debt amount you wish to collect is correct.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.
It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

You might wanna read the section you are quoting. Nowhere does it say that they have to product ANY of that information. 1 and 3 they are DEFINATELY not required to supply....#2, most should be able to supply.

Also, you cannot request a "partial" cease and desist....it is all or nothing. They are not required to communicate only via mail. In most cases, especially with AMEX, they wont bother validating but instead close the account with a legal recommendation which means your next communication will probably be with an attorney.

If this is just a case of verifying that the CA is authorized to collect, I would definately suggest calling AMEX directly....what you are doing could send you directly to court.

Are you sure? Are you a lawyer? Are you always right? Does this section apply to California? Thank you for advice though. I m TRYING TO SEND MY FIRST DV LETTER BUT I am scared.

I was an attorney in Canada. When I first moved to the US I spent over 10 years working in student loan collections so I know my FDCPA. My agency also handled AMEX so I know what happened to accounts.

You dont have to be an attorney to read the FDCPA. You are quoting it.....and asking for things based on it. Read it.

Are you disputing the debt?

Is this better?

To whom it may concern:

This is a written request for validation of the debt referred to in your recent letter.
The Federal Trade Commission, in 15 U.SC. 1692g, requires that debt collectors
cease collection of a debt until verification of that debt is mailed to consumers.

Please provide this information in writing via U.S. mail at the address listed above.



Sincerely,

SL-

I did talk to Amex a couple of times a month ago about settling and they keep saying NO. What should I do? I cannot afford to make payments for next few years because things do happen (i.e., car break-downs) and I pay to fix them. I have been trying to save money for settlement or hiring a lawyer.

What is the point of the validation? yes it is your legal right but why do you need it if you know you owe the debt. Have you asked AMEX if the CA is collecting on it? Have you talked to the CA for a settlement? AMEX settles all the time thru their collection agencies.

What would be the purpose of hiring an attorney? AMEX is pretty agressive and you bring an attorney into the mix and they will play hardball, choose not to settle and just decide to sue you.

Me thinks you are just making this too complicated on yourself. Before you start sending out what collectors and agencies view as stall tactics, talk to the CA.

Did you read the thread title? The OP is dealing with Zwicker, not a typical CA...We all know that: AMEX settles all the time thru their collection agencies. But this firm is known for their strongarm tactics and unethical practices. First I'd google their firm to see if they actually have lawyers listed that practice in your state...Quite a few posters here have DV'd them, and been fortunate enough to have them bow out, with the account going to a more favorable CA, most times one that cannot possibly sue...Zwickers gig is to throw out high percentages 70-80%, make threats, and if you make an offer, they will not present it to Amex and they'll just say NO...I would agree there is nothing wrong with talking with them, just make sure you control the conversation, don't be intimidated, and don't provide too much info...They'll try and nail you with your CR, bringing up the bills you pay, ask for employer information, bank info etc.....I'd suggest recording the call as well...Zwicker is known for violating the FDCPA, and even their standard dunning letter has been held to be in violation...With a little luck you can likely settle it yourself, but I disagree with the attorney comment above. Atty's settle cases all the time, do you need one? Well thats up to you but I wouldn't discourage one for fear of playing hardball if you get in a Jam...

Zwicker is no different than any other AMEX attorneys office. They will settle...I didnt say they wouldnt. My point is Zwicker is working 3rd party for AMEX...they can and will validate but at what cost? Zwicker can read AMEX files and is well aware that the OP has been in touch with them trying to settle. Also keep in mind there is no obligation legal or moral to settle on any account period. You want to keep the communications open and uncluttered....DV'ing an account that is not in dispute is not a good start. It delays collections efforts and causes additional work for the agency. My advice is to just call them.....be open and honest and ask for a settlement up from.

Thank you, Maggie! What should I do? Is it ok that I send them a DV the second one I preapred? I want to send something back to them. Should I call Zwicker directly or talk to the Amex first? I would love to do recording - can I do that in Calif?

I send dv letters to everyone even though I know I owe. Who cares if it makes more work for them and delays collections. That's why I do it.

Definitely send Zwicker DV and in letter state you would like to exericise Arbitration clause in Amex cardholder agreement. This will keep it out of the court system.

You may need to research "Arbitration".

Great post Maggie hope you respond with more good information.

does anyone know which collection agency american express usually sends the debt to in new york?

I heart Soaplady.

OP - Are you serious about settling? Can you fund a good offer? What state are you in?

There is a time and place for sending DV, but it is situational. I get that this board and others are all hopped up on it. I get that Ozzie and perhaps Maggie suggest DV indiscriminately. I get that many on this board and other well populated ones see DV as manna.

Here is the deal; It can backfire and complicate things with many creditors. AMEX is certainly one of those. What is your goal and ability to resolve this account?


Mileage may vary

This won't stop Zwicker from suing you. They sued me 5 mths after not paying Amex.
I worked out a deal with them through my attorney but it was hardball as they tried to renege on it a few days later. They are very disorganized like a lot of these collection law firms. You can be dealing with a debt collector while an attorney from the same firm is filing a complaint.

I agree there is time and place for DV. I do not DV original credit card company but beleive it is necessary when it has gone to outside agency. Just to be sure they have authority to collect and also buy time.

Also, Michigan's Fair Credit Act throws twist into DV. DV must include balance - payments to get to collection amount. No one that I have DV'd has provided this to me and so no DV per state law = no settlement.

Ozzie,...what you said makes no sense. You can't DV an OC..they are not bound by the FDCPA. So what you basically stated was that you should DV all collection agencys.

Michigans Fair Credit Act...couldnt see anywhere that requires payments...only balance

Some states do have their own laws that apply to original creditors as well as 3rd party. My attorney here in Florida sues under Florida statutes because it is much faster and easier to go through district court then Fed. The laws here apply to original creditors. I do not know about Michigan but it is possible!