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I hate collecting on payday loans

Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Sun, 01/01/2006 - 19:31
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Hi everyone,

Recently, while still living up in the South Shore area of Boston, I spoke proudly of being a student loan collector. Why? Because I felt a sense of purpose in keeping educational funding circulating.

I have since moved to Pensacola and taken a new collections job in close proximity to my new home. Collecting credit cards, bank crads, medical bills, and worst of all payday loans. I hate it. I feel no passion or purposefulness slapping people on the wrist for overspending, and as far as payday loans go, I just flat out hate it. I know damn well that they are corrupt and a scam. How is getting cash from a pawnbroker in exchange for unlimited access to your bank accounts not loan sharking? They are designed to make people bounce checks which can be construed in a court of law as deliberately passing bad checks. How is that not corrupt? I think we should all write to our congressmen or state reps about this.

I'm looking to leave the collections business altogether and start my marketing career a little early. I have an application in at the nearest Coca-Cola Bottling Company and have high hopes for this. I also know that I've made a lot of headway on this forum helping distraught borrowers and trying to give collections something of a good name. What do you guys think? I'd like some input from other members as to what the wiser decision is.

Don't get me wrong, I like the people I work with now, they're very friendly and the company is great. Yet it is small and can't exactly pick and choose it's clients. So here I am speaking on behalf of these charlatans at the payday loan places, and the only contact I get all day is a single mother whose child is sick in the hospital and she's so broke that she's driving an unsafe car that she's one month behind in paying, and my job is to tell her to put the sick kid and unsafe car behind an pay the loan in full. WHAT??!! That's just disgusting. Every time I'm at work all I want to do is go home.

Advice for the disillusioned collector anyone?


Sounds to me like you have a conscience, and you are in the wrong line of work. I remember when those payday loan places started up. They should be illegal. I got caught in a rut where I was always short of money every payday, so I had to keep going back for more. Thankfully a friend helped me out, and got me back on my feet so to speak, so I never had to deal with a collection attempt on a bad check.

The situation you describe above is not one I would want to deal with. There are penty of people out there that have no conscience that can do this kind of work. Your post screams for an excuse for you to get out. Find something better to do. Use your experience to help people.


Submitted by on Mon, 01/02/2006 - 12:36

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Hi Ari! The new job coming at your way looks more dignified than the previous one. You should definitely grab this opportunity and work on a broader platform.

Collection industry has not been still so bad because of good people like you. But it seems that people like you are in minority in this industry and it is quite tough to change the world.

If you hear someone aspiring towards the collection industry, teach him to be a good collector and not to get lost in the majority. I hope you will still be remembered for your noble deeds and set up a good example in this industry.

My best wishes are with you. Happy New Year to you.

Regards
Roxette


Submitted by roxette on Tue, 01/03/2006 - 16:38

roxette

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hi Shirley and Roxette,

Thanks for all the support, I really appreciate it. I still have my fingers crossed but haven't heard anything. I've applied for a sales/marketing position and a merchandising system. I could get some exercise! As opposed to sitting on my butt 8 hours a day leaving the same old crap message on people's answering machines.


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Wed, 01/04/2006 - 16:19

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Hi guys, just an update on how I'm handling the payday loan accounts. My two collection managers pulled me into thier office for a closed-door training session. I was trained to look at these loans as cut-and-dry. People who can't make it from one paycheck to the next walk into a pawnshop and trade a postdated check for a wad of cash. Usually the check bounces and that's where I come in. As far as working the accounts went, I was using the same tactics i used in student loans, I was finessing these people and trying to convince them to pay back by reminding them of potential credit damage. I was told that the reason it doesn't work is because the general popluation of people who stoop to this level of going to a pawnshop for a loan are uneducated hustlers and I have to get a little rough with them! Now, I didn't believe this to be true, but it is a fact that the postdated checks written by payday loan borrowers that bounce can be considered felonious in a court of law! I did not know this I swear on my life! What I do know is that any business who takes the postdates checks is just as criminally guilty as the person writing that check. What a bunch of charlatans! And my managers were right, but to an extent. Most, but not all payday loan borrowers don't see the error of their ways and they don't give a rat's hat about their credit!


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 18:56

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No offence Ari, but they are trying to brainwash you with wrong info about bad check laws. I wish I was allowed to post the link to the website that is about check fraud. However here is an excerpt:


Postdated Checks:
Section 3-104(2)(b) of the UCC, defines a check as "a draft drawn on a bank and payable on demand." A postdated check, since it is not payable on demand, does not satisfy this demand. Consequently, it has generally been held by most states that the giving of a post-dated check does not constitute a present fraud nor is it within the scope of the bad check laws.

On a personal note: I wish I could find a financially responsible and beautiful wife/girlfriend like you, Roxette, TTFan or the rest of the ladies on this forum. Every woman that I have dated were after my money and when I was laid off from my job and went thru hard times, they all left me. I am 36 and still unmarried. Where can I find ladies like you? LOL!


Submitted by on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 19:24

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Quote:

. Every woman that I have dated were after my money and when I was laid off from my job and went thru hard times, they all left me. I am 36 and still unmarried. Where can I find ladies like you? LOL!


usually in line at the post office mailing out certified return receipt letters to collection agencies....LOL!!! sorry, had to add in a little humor there! Thanks for the compliment though Kam. shirley


Submitted by imkimssister on Wed, 01/18/2006 - 21:46

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It's cool, I can have a sense of humour, especially about my job, you have to or else you lose your marbles. Kam, I met my husband on lavalife.com. I used to think that online dating was something only desperate people do, but that's not true. When you have a chance to sift through all these different profiles you better your chances at finding who you truly want. That pic of me to the left of each post was snapped by my husband on our first date! We met n person on Feb 14, 2004 and we got married May 25,2004. See what I mean?


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 07:25

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Ari,

I think the whole payday loan industry is just shady in general. I am trying to dig myself out of that trap right now with the help of debt consolidation. I don't think most of us plan on this happening in our lives but it happens to honest and hard working individuals. The payday loan companies make it easy on getting into the trap and it's very difficult to get out of once we're in it. There is a lot of shame involved for a lot of us, including myself. A lot of these places operate with out any state licenses. My state does prosecute for bad checks and now ach transactions that act as checks. There are strict laws for both sides. I was a little scared when I read it online but I know that I will be okay. I didn't do it to defraud anybody. I entered into debt consolidation to help with this and to get ouf the cycle of payday loans.


Submitted by Cow & Chicken on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 07:44

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Oh, btw Shirley! 26 years! That's how old I am! And I was assuming you were the same! Mostly based on the first pic you posted, I just thought you had kind of a baby face and you were perhaps a teenager or college student. Please tell me you and Mr. Shirley got married as teenagers, there no way on God's green earth you're in your 50's! Although, these days 40's and 50's don't look the same as they used to.


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 07:53

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Quote:

I was trained to look at these loans as cut-and-dry. People who can't make it from one paycheck to the next walk into a pawnshop and trade a postdated check for a wad of cash. Usually the check bounces and that's where I come in. As far as working the accounts went, I was using the same tactics I used in student loans, I was finessing these people and trying to convince them to pay back by reminding them of potential credit damage. I was told that the reason it doesn't work is because the general population of people who stoop to this level of going to a pawnshop for a loan are uneducated hustlers and I have to get a little rough with them!



Wow Ari. Usually I find your posts informative and level headed. But your most recent post makes it evident that their brainwashing is beginning to work on you.

Just because a person has met with financial challenges and takes a short term loan in a misguided, though well meaning effort to attempt to address that situation, DOES NOT mean they are deadbeats and don't give a "rats ass about their credit". The use of stereotyping by your employer is quite evident in your post, as is the fact they obviously hold little if any regard for the consumers they are contacting.

Maybe it's time to focus on the situation as it is. It sounds as if your employer isn't really the upstanding agency you previously claimed, but is actively instructing you to "get a little rough" (sounds like they are saying "don't violate any laws, but do what ever necessary while giving a suggestive wink). I am not suggesting you are not upstanding, but rather that you got into a situation that is not what it seems on the surface.

It is not the right or responsibility of the Collection Agency (their owners, employees, agents, etc) rto pass judgment or to determine an individuals intention at the time the transaction was executed.

They can only determine if a consumer intends to pay a debt and make arrangements to accomplish that task. In general Collections Agencies have few rights or authority to do anything on their own. They can make recommendations to their client as to the next steps to be taken, but in reality they can't do much more. collection agencies do have the responsibility and legal obligation to carry out their activities in FULL compliance with ALL applicable STATE and FEDERAL laws. Collections Agencies cannot pursue criminal charges against an individual for a postdated check bouncing (they were not the "victim" of the "crime". In this instance there are two separate issues, (1) The actual debt and (2) The "criminal activity (which must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, very difficult). The only issue a collector can address is the money. They have no implied or established legal right to undertake any actions in connection with the act of bouncing a check. US Federal law does not provide for criminal charge sin connection with being in debt.

Only the merchant can pursue that avenue, and that must be addressed with the local District Attorney and police department, not a collection agency. The fact that a short term loaned business refers their account to a collection agency rather than an attorney or the district attorney indicates they have already indicated they prefer not to pursue a remedy via the judicial system.

Furthermore, your previous posts indicated you are not dealing with "pawn shop loans" ( which are usually secured with personal property which can be re-sold if the loan is defaulted on) but in actuality are dealing with a Internet based or store-front payday loan company that has only a signed check or draft authorization to act upon. The fact they made a loan based on this will indicate to a court of law they were aware there was a 50% chance or better the person would not be able to make good on the obligation when payment came due, yet chose to take that risk.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your career search. It appears the collections industry is beginning to turn a well intentioned kind heated and conscientious person in to a bitter hard nosed person who feels they have every right to pass judgment on consumers, when in fact the only thing you can do is collect the debts in full compliance with the laws.

Maybe you won't collect as much, but at least you did it legally. You can look yourself in the mirror in the morning knowing you do your job to the best of your ability, you treat people with dignity and you carry out your duties legally and morally.



To kam, your quotation states it's UCC, (universal commercial code) which would indicate it is a state statute. Can you please provide your reference for the quotation? What state are you located in?


Submitted by LCW on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 08:07

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Quote:

Oh, btw Shirley! 26 years! That's how old I am! And I was assuming you were the same! Mostly based on the first pic you posted, I just thought you had kind of a baby face and you were perhaps a teenager or college student. Please tell me you and Mr. Shirley got married as teenagers, there no way on God's green earth you're in your 50's! Although, these days 40's and 50's don't look the same as they used to.


Oh thank you Ari!! I get that all the time. When my kids friends first meet us or see us somewhere together for the first time, they think I'm their sister. I have a son that is 28, we went somewhere together a few weeks ago and a friend that had never met me, thought I was his girl. everyone that meets me says I don't look old enough to be the mom, they thought I was the sister. My youngest daughter is 20. I turned 45 this past monday. I got married when I was 19.
But thanks again, you made my day! shirley


Submitted by imkimssister on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 08:24

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To followup, alomost every state that regulates payday loans specifically prohibits payday loan checks from being considered criminal. some states don't even allow them to be collected as bad checks under civil codes, while others allow them to be collected under civil laws (suit, judgement and garnishment), with some states limiting damages (eg the State of Washington which sets a maximum penalty of $40, without the ability to recover attorney's fees. Ari, it appears that your managers were trying to dupe you into the standard payday loan threat... resist, be strong.. stay the beautiful caring woman that you are.


Submitted by jj on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 08:36

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To Clay:
I found that on the internet in a site about check fraud. It does not specify which state. However I checked my state's UCC and in the same section, but a different subsection, the same exact definition was given for a check. I think most states share that definition. Therefore, you can apply it to pretty much every state.

With the growing number of lawsuits brought up against payday loan companies by AGs of different states, this payday loan industry is going to suffer a lot in the future. I foresee a bubble burst for them similar to the one that happened to the dotcom industry. They have grown so fast in the last few years just like mushrooms. The same exact thing happened to dotcoms.


Submitted by on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 12:24

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I will you guys! Thank you for caring. I am still searching for a way out. They're not brainwashing me, I have no fricking clue what to say to someone who had their checkbook raided. I know the loans may be cut and dry but the borrowers of them are not. I'm getting all frustrated and petered out and scheduling an interview with American Income Life.


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 19:47

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JJ and Clay,
I have to confess, sometimes I get my foot jammed in my mouth here in the forum, and the truth of it all is, even though I am extremely well-versed in the fdcpa, I'm really not that experienced as a collector. Seven months I have been a collector. Doesn't exactly speak volumes, my manager has 26 years and he can speak volumes of collecting all sorts of accounts from all sorts of people. I loved student loans, and had a good week of preparation for them. I was thrown headlong into paydays and it's tearing me apart! In one ear I have a borrower trying to explain something to me, in the other ear are my managers telling me not to believe them and make a demand already! How do you think I feel?


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Thu, 01/19/2006 - 20:13

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It must be very tough and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Sometimes when faced with a Hobb's choice, it is helpful to be secure in the knowledge of what is right. In other words, understanding the laws (to the extent you can) can make you resolute in the actions you choose to take. Also, I would keep a written journal of what your are told to do and what you know or find out that is illegal and/or unethical by your managers. That way, if the stress continues and you decide to leave or if you follow your conscience adn your managers try to take action against you.. you have evidence to fight back. take care


Submitted by jj on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 07:24

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Follow your inner conscious, Ari. Nothing is better than it. If your manager is having 26 years of experience in collections in comparison to 7 months of experience that you have obtained, he can't change the world of ethics.

When your manager particularly says not to believe anybody for what they say, you can understand how uncompassionate he is towards humans and this is how he has strengthened his experience. If you follow him, assume that you will be in his shoes 26 years from now. Think about that and then make your decision wisely.


Submitted by john on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 11:39

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John,
Believe me I don't want to be in collections for another 26 years! Not that it isn't fruitful, my boss is not a grouchy, antacid-popping curmudgeon, he's alright. He just thinks in absolutes with regard to borrowers. He also owns a very big house and four vehicles including a BMW and a Mazda Miata, looks like collections has been good to him.
My husband and I have alternative plans. I have an ABA and will have a BBA as of July, he is a helicopter pilot, and we want to invest in real estate. I mentioned to him a desire to find a career I can work at from home so I'm not on someone else's time, he thought it would be a good idea if I managed the real estate while he's at the base. It is something I very much look forward to!


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 15:15

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Quote:

helicopter pilot, and we want to invest in real estate. I mentioned to him a desire to find a career I can work at from home so I'm not on someone else's time, he thought it would be a good idea if I managed the real estate while he's at the base


Okay Ari, when you mentioned helicopter pilot, you sparked my interest. I was thinking that your hubby was either in the military or was working in the medical field. Then you said 'base' so I have to ask, what branch of service is hubby in? you may have said before and I'm sorry if you did, cause I didn't catch it. was just wondering. "Mr. Shirley" is a retired marine, he was in the marine corps for 20 years and retired then took on truck driving. He was a marine when I met him. We have been all over the place. youngest daughter was born in Japan, we were there for four years. We've spent three tours in Hawaii. Two In Memphis and one in Beaufort, Sc.
how are you adapting to being a military wife? shirley


Submitted by imkimssister on Fri, 01/20/2006 - 20:16

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Oh! I'm not a military wife! My husband already discharged from the Royal Danish Navy. You see, we live in Pensacola Florida, but he works in Louisiana for Air Logistics, he stays at the pilot's base for one full week so he can fly oil diggers to and from the rigs, and provide various air transportation to other VIP's. I don't mind that in total I only have him 6 months out of the year, he's home for a week and works for a week.


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 12:22

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Over the cold! Yep! Feeling great, just got my haircut to give myself a fresh new look for these upcoming job interviews! As of noon I stil has long hippie hair with dead ends and a unibrow. Now after having a little waxing done and a few layers and bangs cut into my hair. Et voila, I'm presentable!

Don'e even think of replacing your fair face with a snowman! Come one you look younger that me! Strut your stuff and be proud! If possible try uploading all four or five pics at the same time! I'll try to get more pics and do the same! It will be like a portfolio!


Submitted by Jedi Mistress Ari on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 12:52

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Do you have a digital camera? cause I would love to see your new look--I know what you mean about the long hippie look, I've got the same thing going on right now and need to go get some layers put in my hair, since I have THICK hair, its not only long but THICK. hubby likes it long so I'll keep the length just thin it out a bit. 'presentable'? oh please, you're a knockout with or without the haircut! I'm sporting a ponytail, the wind here is crazy today---shirley


Submitted by imkimssister on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 13:55

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Ari, I have one question for you. Will every payday loan company report to the Teletrack?

There are some companies that do not do legitimate business. And, it becomes quite hard to track them. What I want to know is can they be tracked through the Teletrack, if they are reporting there.


Submitted by david on Sat, 01/21/2006 - 14:23

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Cowampchicken: I work at a Payday Loan store and to be honest with you, we do a lot of business. I'm not sure how other stores work, but with ours all you have to do is make your payment on time or even pay it off or make a payment early and you wont go into debts. Payday loans in my opinion are not shady. They help out people in need of money in a short amount of time. It all depends on your payment methods and whether or not you keep up with your payments.


Submitted by on Thu, 09/04/2008 - 14:52

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You have to admit however like most sub prime lending when an individual fails to pay it can become quite lucrative. Borderline predatory with considering most of the fee scales I have seen (never taken one out myself and never intend to) that is why more than a few states either have them heavily regulated or prohibit them altogether


Submitted by JCEMT on Thu, 09/04/2008 - 17:56

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