My Journey in Dealing with Unlicensed Virginia PDLs.

More Success:

Mr. ****

My name is Jonathan Krauklis, Payment Solution Manager here at MoneyKey. Your email has come across my desk and I wanted to address this issue with you personally

I would like to start by acknowledging your “Revoking of ACH Authorization”. No further transactions will be processed through your account. In addition, it has been documented on your account that all communications will be via email only.

As detailed in the agreement you have signed with MoneyKey, you have acknowledged that you are accepting a loan from an out of state lender. According to Virginia state law, the maximum finance rate and fee is 36% annual interest + $5 verification fee and 20% of the loan. Despite this agreement, we will have your loan closed as “Paid In Full” and we will refunded your account for $70. This amount is the difference between the payments you have made over the $500 principal ($175) and the maximum finance rate permitted in Virginia ($105). Kindly reply to this email granting me authorization to have the credit of $70 deposited into the bank account we have on file and I can have the funds in your account the next day.

Once the refund transaction is completed, we will release you of all liability for the remaining portion of your agreement however, you will no longer be able to re-loan with MoneyKey going forward.

Kindly get back to me and let me know if I am ok to process that credit through your account.


I have not, and do not recommend anyone give them permission to credit your old account or a new account. In this instance I replied and requested that a check be sent to my address.

I dont believe any of these lenders are legal lenders. FOllow the link in my signature line for information on how to deal with them. You owe principal only...no fees, no interest. Rollovers are not permitted in your state.

Dont count on getting a refund. Just work on reclaiming your life.

Virginia Payday Loan Laws
State Legal Status
Lending of payday loan is legal in the State of Virginia.

Loan Specifications

Maximum Loan Amount - $500
Term of Loan - Minimum two pay periods
Maximum Rate of Finance and Fees- 36% annual rate of interest + verification fee of $5 + 20% of the loan
Finance Charge on $100 loan for a 14 day period - $26.38
APR for $100 loan for a 14 day period - 687.76%


Debt Limits

Maximum Number of outstanding loans permitted at a time - 1
Permissible number of Rollovers - None (cannot be renewed, refinanced or extended)
Cooling-off Period - One day after pay, forty-five days after the fifth loan, ninety days after payment plan
Repayment Plan - Yes, once per annum


Limits of Collection

Collection Fees - a) NSF fee of $25; b) Costs of court; c) Fees of a reasonable attorney (should not exceed $250)
Criminal Action - Prohibited


File your Complaint and get Information

Regulator - Virginia Bureau of Financial Institutions
Address - State Corporation Commission, 1300 East Main Street, Suite 800 Post Office Box 640 Richmond VA 23218
Phone - (804) 371-9657
Fax - (804) 371-9416
Regulatory Contact - Susan E. Hancock,, Deputy Commissioner, Consumer Finance

Thanks so much for the prompt reply. Since lending is legal in the state of Virginia, is it safe to assume that none of the lenders I have listed are licensed in Virginia, or that Virginia requires them to be licensed in my state? I can say with certainty that I have paid well over the principal on all of my loans. Probably thousands over. I apologized for my ignorance, but what is considered a "rollover"? Does this mean that they cannot keep charging me just an interest rate without any of my payments actually going towards my balance?

I have decided to move forward in my process of getting myself out of this payday loan payment cycle. According to my research, all online payday loans are illegal in Virginia, as they are not located within the state. I found a great article here for any other VA residents going through the same problems as me:

DELETED PM

I have decided to open a new bank account at a different bank, as I am not overly attached to my current bank. I have begun the process of opening my new account and will be closing my old account as soon as this is complete. I will continue to provide updates on my progress, along with replies from different lenders and any harassment or (hopefully) cooperation and refunds I receive.

sorry,but no personal or solicitory info including links permitted per TOS...PM

Does anyone have an email address for RD STN Financial (RedStone)? I have sent letters to all of the above companies except for them as I can't track down an email.

You may be able to check your loan docs. There may be an email address there (that is if you have them)

Unfortunately these are the only loan docs that I do not have. Their website seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. I am not so concerned with it now that I have shut down my bank account and I know that they are illegal, but I was hoping for at least a shot at a refund, as I have been paying $89 every two weeks for about a year and a half.

So far so good. Just received this email:

Dear *************,

This is in response to your email regarding your account. Please understand that there are indisputable facts with respect to your account with us:



1. You pro-actively sought out a loan with us. With your signed permission, we deposited the funds into your bank account. During this process, you did not raise any objections to the validity of your loan

2. Your current balance is $520.00. Because we do not provide loan to customers in the state of Virginia, we voided your loan, discharged your past due balance and fees in the amount of $520.00

3. Your account is closed and you have no loan balance and no further obligation with our company.

4. Please be advised your application from Virginia State will be automatically denied in our system if you attempt to apply again.

EZ Payday Cash Customer Service

No mention of the refund I requested, but they backed down very quickly. Is it worth fighting for the refund, or should I just let it be?

Another one bites the dust.

Dear ***********:

Thank you for your email. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify Seaside Cash's business practices.

Seaside Cash is located in Belize. As we state clearly in loan agreements, the law of Belize applies to your loan. Courts in the State of Virginia recognize and enforce choice of law provisions such as the one that is included in your loan agreement with us. Thus, your statement concerning "permissibility" of this loan in your state are simply incorrect.

As a courtesy, and with no obligation to do so, we will mark your loan paid in full and as final settlement of your dispute with us. However, you will not be able to access Seaside Cash's services in the future.

Sincerely,

Seaside Cash

Great News on all of the above.. keep us posted on more progress. Remember two things - print these out and keep in a safe place and if you do receive refunds - do not cash or deposit in your bank - take to a check cashing place.

Geez, I am sure you are upset that you can no longer apply with EZ Payday Cash and Seaside Cash! Great progress!!!

Received this email this morning after being told last night that my account was no longer active and that I would be receiving a refund. I'm not sure if this is an automatically generated email or not. Either way it is interesting because my payments were being taken out on the 15th and the 1st, meaning that they attempted to process a payment yesterday or today.

URGENT: Payment Returned



Dear *********,

Your payment was returned on your MoneyKey loan and your account has now been assigned to our Collection department.

Please call us at 1-866-252-5578 to work out the best option so you can return to an active status on your account.

We will work with you to clear up any misunderstanding and look forward to continuing to serve you in the future.

If you contact us within 3 days and set up an arrangement, we will not assess additional fees on your account. Remember you can reach us by email at payments@moneykey.com

Your returned payment with us has been documented with a credit reporting agency. It is extremely important to keep your loan in good standing with us to prevent any additional negative marks from appearing on your record. A negative mark may prohibit you from receiving a new loan from any other lender indefinitely.


Please call us today at 1-866-252-5578 and save the additional fees.

forward the email in regards to the refund to that email.just do that and see how they reply.

PDLnow isn't being as cooperative
Please refer to your copy of the Loan Agreement - the loan was not funded from, nor are we located in, the State of Virginia. Under the terms of the Agreement you agreed to make payments by ACH until the loan balance was satisfied in full, in accordance with that contract. If necessary, we will make all reasonable attempts to make contact with you to organize and obtain payment of all amounts due and payable to enable the loan agreement to be satisfied, as per the original terms. Thanks, Customer Service"

My response to them (it is so hard not to get angry, I am trying to stay calm in my responses.
Again, ALL online payday loan services are illegal in Virginia, because, as you said yourself, you are not located in nor licensed by Virginia. I am certain that you are aware that what you are doing is illegal, I certainly am. If you want, I will provide you with a copy of Virginia law. You will not receive another dime from me, and you have no course of action to do so because your loan isn\'t, and never was legal or valid, we both know that so lets stop playing games.

Online lending is illegal in Virginia, if the lender is not licensed to do so in Virginia.. And since they pretty much said as such - then they are admitting that they are illegal.. So great response to them -- keep us posted..

Their Response
Please refer to our previous reply which fully addresses this matter. The loan has not been repaid and WILL be collected on, and there is most certainly no refund due nor will be forthcoming. You took the loan on the terms offered, you WILL repay the loan per this terms. J Andersen, Manager, Customer Service
My response
I most certainly will not. It doesn\'t matter what terms you did or did not offer me, because the loan is ILLEGAL and thus null and void. I have already paid you the principal balance, I owe you nothing else. My lawyer has already warned me that you would feed me all of the lines that you have thus far. Your scare tactics will not work on me. I have already reported you to my District Attorney as well as the FTC. I will ask again nicely. Please mark my loan as paid in full. Any further correspondence should be sent to my email directly ********

Their response - slowwwwwly starting to budge
"Your request is denied, the loan has not been repaid in full and as such cannot be marked as paid in full. However, as a goodwill gesture in recognition of your status as a previously good customer, we will suspend payments. This means that no further interest will be added and no payments taken until you decide to meet your obligation and repay your Debt to us. There will be no refund, the loan is still owed and will NOT be marked as paid in full until you have cleared the balance. J Andersen, Manager, Customer Service \"
My response
I appreciate the gesture, but again, you will be receiving no payments from me, ever again. Whether you mark my loan as paid in full at this point really makes no difference to me. I would however suggest, for your sake, that you do. If you are (hopefully) investigated for your illegal business practices, this is only going to reflect badly on you. You can no longer deny that you are unaware that what you are doing is illegal. Any further correspondence from me will be through my lawyer. Thank you.

Their Response (looks like they are done talking to me)
We do not deal with, nor are we obliged to deal with, any 3rd parties regarding customer accounts - we will only deal with the customer. Please refer to your copy of the Loan Agreement - we are a non-US company with no US presence, and we meet all Laws and Financial Regulations relevant to Us and the loans we provide. As was clearly explained - and freely accepted by you, the relevant Laws would and do differ to your local Laws. Please cease all contact as it is obvious you have no intent to repay this debt and I will not allow further time to be wasted on this matter. No further replies will be made to you or your Lawyers, nor do we have any requirement to do so. J Andersen, Manager, Customer Service
My Response
The fact that you are not in the United States is the EXACT reason why your services are illegal in Virginia. You don\'t seem to be understanding that. If you truly believe it is legal for you to provide loans to Virginia residents, you need to fire whomever is in charge of your legal department. Have a great day.

***Update*** I have been locked out of their website. I'll take this as a good sign.

Sounds as if you have made them upset. Great job!!!

Yeah I think I let them get under my skin a little too much...

OK I have finally gotten a response from Plain Green Loans. Based on what I have seen from others on this forum I was expecting this type of answer:
Dear *******:

Your correspondence has been directed to me for review.

We are sorry you are not satisfied with your Plain Green Loan. At this time we have closed your account from further activity.

To further clarity your questions regarding the legality of this loan, Plain Green is organized under the laws of the Chippewa-Cree Tribe of the Rocky Boy’s Indian Reservation of Montana (“Chippewa-Cree”). Plain Green is owned by the Chippewa-Cree, and operates exclusively on land owned by the Chippewa-Cree. As such, Plain Green stands as an “Arm of the Tribe,” in the view of the United States state and federal courts. Therefore, loans made by an arm of a sovereign Indian nation are not subject to state law. This is NOT a payday loan.

This letter is written to help you understand that Plain Green and its loan contracts are governed exclusively by the laws of the Chippewa-Cree.

Pursuant to your request, we have removed your contact numbers from our system and we will make no further ACH debits from your account.

Thank you again for your time and consideration.





Plain Green Loans

Way to go! Print email and keep for future reference if needed.

Just a quick update. I have not been able to get CK Marketing to communicate with me through email. They have emailed me twice, the first time a Melanie asked me to call them, saying they had a great payment plan for me to consider (I have already paid 1,200 over the principal, mind you). I replied and said that I would only be communicating through email or some other form of writing, and reminded them of the original letter I sent them revoking ACH and asking for a refund - I heard nothing back. A few days later I got another email from "Melanie" this time telling me that they were still willing to work with me, suggesting that I could pay with a credit/debit/or prepaid debit card and she attached a form for me to fill out the appropriate information. I replied again with the same original letter that I had sent them and heard nothing. Now over the past 2 days I have received 2 phone calls. Both from a Lisa who surprisingly enough sounds super friendly on my voice-mail, saying she is with CK and wants to talk about a "great" payment plan they have in mind for me. As far as I know they have not made any attempts to contact my employer, friends or family. Any thoughts on my next course of action? Should I just keep ignoring the calls or should I answer briefly and tell them that I will not speak over the phone and that they have my email?

Not five minutes after I made my previous post I again received an email from this "Melanie" again asking for credit/debit/prepaid debit information so that my account could be settled. It should be mentioned that this same "person" has emailed me from three different ckmarketing email addresses. I just sent the following to all three and am hoping to get some type of human response this time:

Dear Melanie,

I am starting to come under the assumption that you are either not reading my replies to you, or that you are simply choosing to ignore me. As I have stated several times previously:

I am now aware that payday lenders must be licensed by the state of Virginia in order to offer loans to its residents. Since your company has no license in my state, and I am a Virginia resident, the loan contract I have with you is illegal and thus not valid. To date, I received a total deposit of $500.00 on September 5, 2012 from CK Marketing and have had bi-weekly withdrawals debited from my account for a total of $1,730.00. This results in an overpayment of $1,230.00.

At this time I am requesting a return email acknowledging that my loan has been paid in full. Also, I would like a refund of the $1,230.00 overpayment. A refund check of $1,230.00 should be mailed to me at the following address:

**************************
**************************

As you are clearly aware, I have revoked authorization for ACH withdrawals and any wage assignment I may have signed. I have given a copy of these revocations to both my bank and my employer. Any future attempts to collect funds in this manner will be blocked. Please respond to this email with acknowledgment that my account has been satisfied in full. Details of when I can expect the refund check, as discussed above, should also be included in the email. I will only communicated via email or through some other written form of correspondence. Calls to me will simply be ignored, so I would advise against wasting your time. Additionally, friends, family, my bank and my employer are all aware of the illegality of your loan with me and will document and treat all of your calls as fraudulent. Lastly, I have reported CK Marketing to both my State's Attorney General and the FTC. If you wish to discuss this matter with either please feel free. The reference number for the FTC complaint can be found below:

Complaint Submitted

Thank you for contacting the FTC. Your complaint has been entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide. Your reference number is:45401417

Regards,

*************

why?they just want to argue.calling will open the floodgates and might get them to start calling others.i would just ignore completely now.