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How to get started getting out of paydayloan problems

Submitted by on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:10
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Have so many loans - don't even know how and am embarrassed but need help. Its taking so much of pay can't barely pay other bills.

I don't want to close my bank account unless it is a complete last resort - my spouse doesnt know about these loans and it would be a huge marital problem if found out.

I Live in NJ and am confused about whether or not PDLs are legal and how to approach each company to find out how to get them marked paid? Have rolled over multiple loans many many times with these companies- don't have the amounts paid in total yet but will start to look up - I didn't want to wait another minute - payday is next thurs was hoping to start some fast:

Fee Principal
mycashnow 57 230 new - no rollover
greenlight 100 250 new - no rollover
money & more 45 255 new - no rollover
discount 105 260 rolled over many times
onestep cash 90 300 rolled over many times
star 35 350 rolled over many times
ameriloan 105 350 rolled over many times
paycheck today 120 400 rolled over many times
geneva roth (new one) 120 400 rolled over many times
oneclick 120 400 rolled over many times
loan shop 120 400 rolled over many times
fast and rel 100 500 rolled over many times
delaware fast funds 165 550 rolled over many times
paydaymax 240 700 rolled over many times
magnumcashadvance 1500 rolled over many times

Have been reading through the threads and just don't know how to start to figure out what these letters are you are sending and where to start to get this moving along without risking more coming out of the account (and really trying not to close it)


Boy needhelpfast, that was quick! First off, let me say Welcome! Secondly, I can well understand the predicament you are in with your spouse. However, closing your account is really the only way to stop the debits. You could speak with your bank about placing a hard block on the account or put it as a deposit only, but please do not try and put stop payments on as the PDLs will change names for the ACH's or put through a paper check. Since Thursday is fast approaching I would speak with your bank immediately. I am not sure but if it is a joint account will you be able to do anything with the account without your spouse being involved? Just a thought but perhaps someone else on the board will know if that could be possible. Also, I guess it would depend on the bank itself. I think that PDLs are illegal/prohibited in NJ but someone will be along who can post and interpret those laws for you. If you could breakdown those PDLs as to amount borrowed and how much you have paid on each one that would be helpful and whether they are internet or storefront. I can see from my own experience that several are illegal but others will be able to help you with that as well. You will need to send out C and D letters and they will cover all the aspects of the contracts that you signed as far as debits, telephone calls, etc. You will need to send out complaints to the State AG's Office, the BBB, the FTC and possibly your State's Banking Department. Sounds overwhelming but honestly, the good people on this board will help sort it out for you and provide templates for letters that you can adapt to your situation. Also, once you get on a roll things will go along smoothly. I know that it seems easy for me to say, but believe me, when I came here in February I felt the same way and now look at me. . . .giving advice! So, if you can get that info to us, we can start you on your way to get free from this situation.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:25

llw1995

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All of them are internet loans. I will go to the bank tomorrow and find out if I have any other options such as the hard block or what they recommend for protecting myself without closing or if I should open a new account and then just close this one. I will put together what I've paid on each in the morning and post - I am fairly certain I've paid more than double the principal on most of them except the top few that are pretty recent.

If the account is closed - what happens to all of the legitimate things that are set up to be paid through it? I read the thread about what happens if an account gets closed and they force payments so I am concerned about that as well. I definitely don't want to change banks.


Submitted by on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:31

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One more question (for now) - what do I say to the bank person and am I better off going into a branch or calling the 800 customer service number to find this info out?

I am obviously embarrased about this and am sure I am not alone but don't know how to approach it or what the C and D letters are?

Clearly I just found this thread and am overwhelmed and happy at the same time that I may have an out.


Submitted by on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:33

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Once you close the account, your legitimate ACH debits will need to be directed to a new account. You will have to notify them that the account has been closed. I reread your post and I may have misunderstood. I thought your paid day was this Thursday, the 31st. If it is next Thursday the 7th you have some lead time, but you will have to make some calls pretty quickly to your legitimate debts. You will have to speak with your bank about closing the account, opening another and making sure it will not be forced open if any debits hit the account. If you have a direct deposit you will need to have that changed as well. the banking thing was the hardest for me as I really hated going through all the nonsense and coming clean with the bank. You will need to go to the bank in person and speak with someone in charge, not just a teller. I bank with a small town bank so I was beside myself trying to deal with it. I just told them that I had some unauthorized activity on my accounts and I needed them closed to protect my funds. Most will advise opening an account at a different bank, but I felt that opening another account with the bank I had would keep the questions down and I also felt that they would help protect my money more as well. They did. The C and D letter is simply a cease and desist document. It will revoke authorization of the ACH debits, revoke any wage assignments you may have signed, requesting that they do not call you at home, work or any of your references. Basically all the bases. We can help you with that letter but it will not be sent out until you have secured your account cuz if you do, the PDLs will go into that account and clean you out of whatever they can get their greedy little hands on. Once you have control over your money again you will feel a whole lot better about the situation. You can gather the info requested and post when you have it. Try and get some sleep. All will be well.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:49

llw1995

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Any legitimate ACH items (I assume you are referring to utilities and such) will allow you to change or to send them paper checks.

As for the bank question, it depends on your bank. For Wamu and other midsize banks, you need to not only go into the bank, but also speak to the manager. Explain the situation, and be honest. It may be a little embarrassing, but if they know what's going on and that you are taking steps to fix it, they will be more willing to help you. Wamu forgave $400+ in OD/NSF fees, reversed a payment that snuck through after I had placed the block, opened a new account, and never reported me to Chex Systems because I talked to the manager and was very upfront about it. Most local banks will be the same. If you are with a larger bank (Chase, BoA, etc), they might get snarky but it is in their best interest to retain your business without having to worry about sending to collections and such.

Last thing, tell your spouse, just sit them down and open up. I had to tdo the same with my girlfriend (at the time), and I was scared to death she would break the whole thing off. She didn't, she actually understood, and helped me to figure out how to live on what I have and get out of the cycle.

You'll be fine, just remember that everyone goes through something rough, and that everyone on this forum (excepting the spammers and slimebag trolls) have gone through a very similar situation with the PDL trap. We are all here to help you and support you


Submitted by drburr on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 18:53

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Thanks for the info - will go to bank tomorrow and start there. Bank is Wachovia - anyone have any experience with them on this issue? Do I just say unauthorized activity or do I fess up to it being PDLs? They can clearly see that this is some of the activity. What about debit cards? Do they issue new ones or transfer them over? What else do I need to know if I am closing the account?

Telling spouse is not an option - had issues years ago with money and such and this is not something that I can come clean on. Spouse had no handle on cost or spending to begin with but we have been working on that part of it. It just isn't an option. I have to work it out on my own somehow and get through it. I appreciate all of your help.


Submitted by on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:01

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drburr. . .good advice. You are right. Coming clean with someone close to you is important but I too resisted. When I came here in February, the people on this board were the ONLY ones who knew of my situation. Actually, my grown kids still don't know but my good friend and confidant does. It was tough telling him but not having to carry around that burden alone sure did help me with my situation. All this has taught me a valuable lesson and I look at my finances in an entirely different light as a result. I guess one might say that the silver lining in an otherwise dark cloud was the dawning of a new "me". This too shall pass. Sleep well.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:03

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Wachovia is a smaller midsize, so you will definitely need to go in and speak to a local branch (preferably the one that you opened the account at). Speak to the manager, and come clean. They can tell from the line items that this is PDL related, and I guarantee they have seen this type of issue before, at the very least in the info and alerts (general, not specifically on you) they get from corporate.

As for debit cards, banks usually issue a new one in a case like this. They just mark the old account as having an identity theft risk and remove everything that links the two. At least, they will if you request that they do, which you should (if they don't offer)


Submitted by drburr on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:07

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Well, I would talk with the bank first as that is where you will have to start. You can come clean with them if you choose to do, and as you said, they have the info so they will probably be able to figure out what has happened. If the bank account is in your name only, there shouldn't be a problem. If it isn't you'll work through it. You have to handle the situation whatever way is best for you, on a personal level. We can help with the other aspects of the situation. We'll look for the additional info in the morning.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:12

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So I know the right calculations - what is the law in NJ for what these people are allowed to charge? I read 30% somewhere but is that annual rate or is that total over the principal? I will put together something thorough when I get to work tomorrow. I cannot get to the branch where I opened the loan so easily so I'm not sure how to handle that - I can get to another branch where there is a corporate office as well - is that an acceptable start? It is a joint account.


Submitted by on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:23

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Do you mean where you opened the account? You said the loan but I think you meant the account. I didn't go to the branch I opened my original account in either. Just make sure you talk with the branch manager. I am not sure of the NJ laws so I don't know about the 30% but I wouldn't worry about the calculations just yet until you have all the info. Someone will post them for you. Keep us posted on your progress with the bank. As for the joint account, your bank will advise you on that as well. As for your spouse becoming privy to this information I don't have an answer for you. You will come to some resoultion. Chin up.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:36

llw1995

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Here's some info. . . .

New Jersey State Information

Legal Status: Prohibited

Citation:
Consumer loan act applies but rates as agreed to by contract. N.J. Stat. Ann. tit. 17,???? 1 et seq. However, criminal law sets the usury cap at 30%. N.J. Stat. Ann. ???? 2C: 21-19. A check cashing licensee cannot cash or advance money on a postdated check. N.J. Stat. Ann. ???? 17:15A-47.

Small Loan Rate Cap
30% per year

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance
Address: 20 West State St. Trenton NJ 08625
Phone: (609) 292-5360
Fax: (609) 292-5461
Regulatory Contact: Ludi Hughes Assistant Commissioner
Regulator????????s Website
Complaint Form
Complaint Instructions
Online Resources:
Personal Finance Information

PDLs are prohibited in NJ. You are only obligated to repay what the PDL deposited into your account. I am in New York and they are pretty similiar in content. I only repaid what I borrowed on all of my PDLs and in two cases I repaid less than because the PDLs "forgave" the remainder of the loan. Hope this helps. As drburr said make sure they do not link the old and new account. Keep us posted.


Submitted by llw1995 on Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:57

llw1995

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Here is the list of what I was able to figure out I've paid and when the loans currently active were taken out. Bank opens in an hour so I'll go then and see where I can start. If I open a new account so I have a week to start to move the good stuff over is it feasible that they can put a deposit only status on this account without closing? I have a NJ rebate coming direct deposit in the next month or so. If I have to close I will close.

For some of these I paid off loans then ended up taking new ones but can't find all the info on the websites for them - some I did and some not.

I am unable to find or figure out a few of them.

Fee Balance Date taken out Paid to date
MCN 57 230 7/200
greenlight 100 250 17-Jul 100
money & more 45 255 17-Jul 45
discount 105 260 20-May 255.75
onestep cash 90 300 480
star 35 350 420
ameri 105 350 20-May 525
paycheck today 120 400 18-Jun 360
geneva roth (new one) 120 400 18-Jun 360
oneclick 120 400 30-May 620
loan shop 120 400 11-Jul 120
fast and rel 100 500 30-Jun 135
delaware fast funds 165 550 9-May 825
paydaymax 240 700 5-May 1061.34

magnum 1500


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:16

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hit the send key too fast

magnum is a current 1500 - paid it off then took another one - the one I paid off I paid several times over if that matters. Also mycashnow I paid off two loans in 2008 - one was 1245 on 700 original and one was 2270 on 900 original.

These numbers are just sick and I have to stop it. No wonder I am in such financial difficulty.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:18

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hit the send key too fast

magnum is a current 1500 - paid it off then took another one - the one I paid off I paid several times over if that matters. Also mycashnow I paid off two loans in 2008 - one was 1245 on 700 original and one was 2270 on 900 original.

These numbers are just sick and I have to stop it. No wonder I am in such financial difficulty.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:18

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Good morning! You can ask for a deposit only but that would mean that nothing will go throug in the way of a debit. If that will work for you, talk with the bank. You would have to open another account as a "working" account, but these are all things that you will need to discuss with your bank. Just make sure you get all your questions answered so your money will be secure and there will be no surprises. Closing the account is really the best way to protect your money. Decision is yours. As for the PDLs themselves. . . .correct me if I am wrong in any of this.

Fee Balance Date taken out Paid to date

MCN 57 230 7/200

You borrowed $230 - paid nothing to date


greenlight 100 250 17-Jul 100

Borrowed $250 - paid $100

money & more 45 255 17-Jul 45

Borrowed $255 - paid $45

discount 105 260 20-May 255.75

Borrowed $260 - paid $255.75

onestep cash 90 300 480

Borrowed $300 - paid $480

star 35 350 420

Borrowed $350 - paid $420

ameri 105 350 20-May 525

Borrowed $320 - paid $525

paycheck today 120 400 18-Jun 360

Borrowed $400 - paid $360

geneva roth (new one) 120 400 18-Jun 360

Borrowed $400 - paid $360

oneclick 120 400 30-May 620

Borrowed $400 - paid $620

loan shop 120 400 11-Jul 120

Borrowed $400 - paid $120

fast and rel 100 500 30-Jun 135

Borrowed $500 - paid $135

delaware fast funds 165 550 9-May 825

Borrowed $550 - paid $825




paydaymax 240 700 5-May 1061.34

Borrowed $700 - paid $1061.34

Does this look like it is broken down properly?


Submitted by llw1995 on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:40

llw1995

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I neglected to include the Magnum amount. That apparently has no payments on it, so it is still owing in full. Quick calculations should be as follows.

Going on the basis that these PDLs are all illegal/prohibited you will take what you borrowed, take what you paid, and the difference would be what you "morally" owe to the PDLs. That is as long as they are PDLs and not some other different type of loan. Someone will be able to correct me if I am wrong in assumptions. If this is the case the following would apply.

$230 to MyCashNow
$150 to Greenlight
$210 to Money and More
$4.25 to Discount
overpaid One Step
overpaid Star
overpaid ameriloan
$40 to PayCheckToday
$40 to Geneva Roth
overpaid One Click
$280 Loanshop
$365 Fast and Rel
overpaid Delaware Fast Funds
overpaid PayDayMax

my cash now and Pay Day Max are strong armed by Credit Protection Depot. One Click Cash and Ameriloan are part of MNE. I have the Amin contact for Star if you choose to seek a refund. Keep us posted.


Submitted by llw1995 on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 05:58

llw1995

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Your calculations look right to me. So I think what you are saying is if I close the account (I'm going soon to find out how to best handle it) then due to the NJ laws I would not have to pay them back but if I want to have a clear head about it those are the numbers I would pay back. I definitely overpaid Mycashnow a bunch of times and definitely also magnum cash advance over a few loans.

What do you mean by they are strong armed by Credit Protection depot? Also the MNE? I'm confused on those.

If there is somewhere I am able to seek a refund once I protect my money I will be doing that too.

Thank you all again for your continued help and support.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 06:26

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The board members always advise repaying what was deposited into your account, legal or no. But, again, that is your decision. They gave you the money, you used it. Overpaying by way of previous loans really doesn't impact the current loan situation. Credit Protection Depot collects for MyCashNow and PayDayMax. That is who I went to when I settled both of my accounts that they handle. MNE is a Native American Tribe out of Oklahoma that deals with PDLs. There are several affiliated with them. You will also read about MTE and SNE. Other tribes on the same reservation. You will have to communicate with the PDLs directly indicating that not only have you repaid what you borrowed, but you have overpaid and would like a refund of that dollar amount. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I had no overpayments so I didn't have to deal with that aspect of the PDL world. Many on here are happy just to receive a PIF and be done with it. Again, your choice. Get the bank sqaure, draft the C and D letter, get them out and wait for the PDLs to respond. Good luck and keep us posted.


Submitted by llw1995 on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 06:33

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Ok - Went to the bank earlier and opened a new account. They were great about it and they just opened it without issue. Will close 'old' account on Friday or Monday after a few things have a chance to clear. PDL will not try to hit until Thursday so bank manager said that is enough time.

I will pay back what I took out if the previous loans have no bearing. Now what is next? I know I can't send them anything until that account is closed but I want to get all of my information together and ready. I need to get a C&D letter? And then when do I send that and what will it accomplish? Also what do I need to send to my payroll department and what kind of letter do I need to withdraw the ACH authorization related to the soon to be closed account?

Thanks for all of your help - I see a light at the end of the tunnel now - I will have paycheck next week!!!

The bank assured me that the new account will not be linked to the old one and that once the account is closed it is closed and no forcing open will happen. I have dealt with this manager before and trust he is telling the truth and will fix any problems that may arise.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 11:51

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i, too, live in NJ.. from my understanding, they are probhibited and telling companies that as well as showing the law usually works out for the best. I filed reports with the BBB, FTC and NJ attorney general. I sent C & D letters and most companies worked with me so I could settle.. Geneva Roth is giving me an awful time. If possible, perhaps you could find the ACH processor for your loans, as that has helped others on this board. My original letters that I sent (and reports I have filed) have usually worked for me.


Submitted by bea2ls on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 12:01

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bea2ls is correct. I live in NY and that worked to my advantage. The C and D letter will cover all aspects of your PDLs. It will revoke ACH authorizations, wage assignments, calls to your home, friends, etc. Give a copy of that to your HR department so they know that you have revoked several things relating to the PDLs. You are correct. Do not send it until your account is closed. I would try emailing it first, for quickness, and then you can hard copy it after. bea2ls talked about finding their processors. That is another whole different avenue, which you could try as well. Actually the processor is the one who helped me out with UsFastCash and Star Advance. You can find a template for the C and D letter on this website in the do it yourself section at the top of the page. You will just have to plug in your own info as you go along. Sounds more difficult than it is. If I were home, I would post a copy of what I used. Unfortunately I will not be there until this evening. Someone, I am sure, will come along and help with that, if you need it. I am glad that things went smoothly at your bank. Knowing your money is "untouchable" makes a big difference in your mindset. Work on that C and D letter so it will be ready to go as soon as your account clears/closes. Keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 12:30

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Ok I signed up for an account and although I thought I kept the same name it assigned me one based on my email address. So now I'm not 'needshelpfast' (although I do) I'm whoever it posts me as on this post!

I figure I have a lot to learn on here about this and more so no need to be a guest.


Submitted by lovestix on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 18:17

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Well, lovestix, aka needhelpfast, welcome! I will post a copy of my C and D letter below. Hope it helps. You can give a copy of that C and D letter to your HR department as it will explain it all. I just told my HR department that there was fraudulent activity on my account and if anything came through regarding my paycheck they were not to honor it and call me immediately. Thank God it never came to that. You will have to plug in your state's name where it is applicable and you could add anything to this letter regarding each particular PDL, if you wish. That is what I did on each individual letter. I stated what I had paid, what I was willing to pay to clear the debt and how I would get it to them. Keep us posted.

To Whom it May Concern:


After doing research on internet payday loan laws in the state of New York, I have found that your internet payday loans are actually illegal. I have also found the following laws to be true applying to payday loans in the state of New York in general:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New York State Information

Legal Status: Prohibited

Citation:
Licensed lender law applies but interest rate is that agreed to by contract. N.Y. Banking Law ???? 340 et seq. A check casher licensee cannot make loans nor cash or advance any moneys on a post dated check unless it is a payroll check. N.Y. Banking Law ???? 373. Criminal law sets the usury cap at 25%. N.Y. Penal Code ???? 190.40.

Small Loan Rate Cap
25% per year

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: New York State Banking Department
Address: One State Street New York NY 10004
Phone: 1-877-BANK-NYS
Fax:
Regulatory Contact: Regina A. Stone Deputy Superintendent
Regulator????????s Website
Complaint Form
Complaint Instructions


I have contacted the New York State Banking Department and the New York State Attorney General????????s Office regarding your internet payday loans and was informed they are indeed illegal in New York and have been advised to pay what is due according to principal amount only of the loan.


A physical address is necessary, as you are no longer authorized to debit my bank account. I will not Money Gram or Western Union any payment. If no physical address is provided for me to mail payment to, no payment will be made.

Any contact must be made through the US Postal Service or email only. I need everything in writing to keep accurate records of all communication as per instruction from the state Attorney General's Office.



I prohibit you or your affiliates from contacting me via telephone at my place of employment or my home telephone number. I also prohibit you from calling my references listed on my loan. Once I inform you of this, you must stop the telephone contact immediately or you will be once again breaking the laws of the state of New York.

You are also hereby notified that I am revoking any voluntary wage assignment I may or may not have signed. I no longer authorize you, your company, or your affiliates to attach any part of my wages or contact my employer for your collection purposes.

I am revoking your right to debit my checking account any longer. You, your company, or your affiliates are not authorized to debit my checking account from this point on. Please be aware that I have informed my financial institution of this situation and they will also be receiving a copy of this correspondence. Any further attempts at debiting my account will be rejected by my financial institution as my account has been flagged as having fraudulent activity.

I must also inform you that I have filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission, my state Attorney General's Office, the New York State Banking Department. In regards to this matter, I expect a response from your company no later than 10 days from the date of this communication. This response may only come via US Postal Service or email. No telephone contact is permitted.


Submitted by on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 18:37

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I have the old account now closed and am working on the letters. I cannot find email addresses or fax numbers for the following and was hoping someone could help:

mycashnow
greenlight
money & more
geneva roth

Thanks!


Submitted by on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 07:57

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fax #800-351-8830

phone #800-351-8820


Submitted by on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 05:55

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Ok - have sent out the C&D letters and got two emails back saying they don't have to follow the laws of NJ if they are in XYZ state.

My instinct is to respond that since I live in NJ they are required to follow the laws of NJ and for one of them I have paid 235 (oneclickcash) more than the principal so I don't owe them any more. The other is fast & reliable who is only asking for the principal balance (after what I paid in fees already) so I am working that one out fine myself.

Any advice for how to handle the responses would be greatly appreciated.


Submitted by on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:41

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