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Title Loan

Submitted by johnson7610 on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 13:04
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This site is great and very information, but I didn't seem to find that much info on Title loans, so I hope someone can help me. I have a title loan. The interest payments were supposed to be monthly (i assumed), but actually are every 2 weeks. I live in IL and have filed a complaint with the IL AG Office, and am waiting to hear back. My main concern is not losing my car as it seems these people are snakes. Heres the story I had some payday loans which I paid off. After paying them off, I closed my bank account and opened new one to avoid any unwanted deposits or debits. After I closed it, I informed this company that I had via email and voicemail (I don't have an address for them) and never heard anything back. I sent the email for 3 days (until payday). The email stated that my payment was returned. I again forwarded my original email letting them know that I had to close my account and wanted an address to send a money order while I opened a new account. I received 2 emails back, 1 saying to call to discuss (and when you call, no one picks up and you get disconnected) and the 2nd one stating that I owed $916 and a payment needed to be made Western Union. I have continued to try to contact these people with no luck. I have not sent the payment because I think they have messed up. I am nervous and I don't want to lose my car. Do title loans fall under the same laws as payday loans? Does the lender have to have a liscense in IL to loan in IL? Should I get an attorney? Any help is appreciated!


The company is called Tulip Investments. The loan was for $1900. I have only paid back $459. $459 was suppossed to be my monthly payment, but apparently it is suppossed to be paid twice a month (I can't seem to find that wording anywhere). I do have the money to pay my next payment, but they won't give me an address.

That is the funny thing, I don't have the paperwork right in front of me, but the loan docs, are the exact same as a payday loan, they reference a finance fee and then 1 payment amount.


Submitted by johnson7610 on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 13:36

johnson7610

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Basically they have your title so you are kind of at their mercy. I suspect the outfit is shady at best and maybe even breaking some laws but it is like the old saying "possession is 9/10ths of the law" meaning they have possession so they have already won 9/10ths of the battle. What I would do is try to scrape up the money and settle this thing ASAP. They are not going to take partial settlment either. You will have to scrape up the payoff amount which you will need to contact them to find out what it is. Hopefully you can get one of these bozos on the phone. I think that is the easiest route and would cost you the least amount of money. I suspect you signed a bunch of documents and attached your title which means they pretty much got the best of you.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Fri, 08/15/2008 - 05:35

DOLLARSandSINCE

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Thank you for the responses. I did read through my loan docs, but they really I finally got a hold of someone there, who was extremely rude to me. I have the money to pay this payment, and am going to take the rest out of my 401k account. I just hope no one else gets caught in a trap like this, it is horrible.

Thank you again for your responses, it is just nice to talk to someone about this.


Submitted by johnson7610 on Fri, 08/15/2008 - 07:09

johnson7610

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I am just curious what the payoff amount is that they gave you. It shouldn't be over $1600 in my opinion. Basically you borrowed $1900 and two weeks later you paid $459 which would live you with a balance if $1441 plus some interest. $141 is a huge amount of interest for two weeks of time on $1900. That would be a 200% apr loan.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Fri, 08/15/2008 - 07:46

DOLLARSandSINCE

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Title is a legal concept: when a lender is on title it means they own a security interest in collateral for a loan.

Possession means physically keeping, using or controlling a thing. Not a piece of paper constituting an indicia of ownership, but actual physical use and control.

The saying possession is 9/10ths etc., if it means anything in this context, alludes to the latter physical sense.

Dollars, perhaps even you can see that physical possession of a piece of paper called a title is of less legal and practical use than physical possession of the car itself. For instance, the last time I checked, I wasn't able to drive my car's pink slip to and from work.

Furthermore, as long as the debtor here has physical possession of the car, he has something he can bargain with. Once he loses it he's pretty much screwed.

I'd find a local legal clinic or a lawyer who does free consultations; the debtor needs specific advice on how to retain possession. That is, possession of the car Dollars, not the paper.


Submitted by on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 10:19

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Possesion of the title is still possession. They have the title. I never implied they had possesion of the car. Once they have the title and he signed documents attaching his title to the loan it makes it a heck of a lot easier to get possession of the car if he defaults. Thats why I suggested he make good on the loan. You certainly don't need a lawyer to call up the company you borrowed money from and find it the payoff amount and make good on the loan.

Again your post is pointless cellular or whatever you want to call yourself. You spewed all your garbage just to get to the line suggesting he find some free help and yet you fail to accomplish anything. Cellular even you can see that physical possession of a piece of paper called a title is of more legal and practical use than nothing at all i.e. an unsecured loan. He has his car attached to that loan via the title which they have possession of and the penalties for defaulting are much greater than if it were unsecured. I guess we can argue semantics all day long but it still obvious at least to me that there is a lot more risk for him with a secured loan via the title then it woud have been as an unsecure loan.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 11:52

DOLLARSandSINCE

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No, Dollars.

Reread my last post. Read it slowly. There's only one possible conclusion: the car is of immense importance as long as the debtor possesses it. You're furnishing very poor advice.

Johnson need an IL lawyer familiar with these things, and that ain't you. Time to hang this one up.


Submitted by on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 12:09

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not so fast silly one.i live in IL,and know a couple of people who have had title loans.most are a joke,but until there are reforms made like for pdl's in IL that's the way it is.it is a bad deal,but she should do what she can to make good.make no mistake about it,if she defaults they will take her car.since you and others want to push the get a lawyer down our throats.my
take only in this case is she should try to pay this off asap,if she can afford a lawyer why can't she pay?granted i'm only going to say that where this is concerned,but she should pay it or risk losing her car.now silly nugget,you can go about your stupid day.


Submitted by paulmergel on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 12:33

paulmergel

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You are ignorant at best Cellular. The OP borrowed $1900. He paid $460. He should be able to complete the loan for another $1600 or less. Why would he want to waste his money on a lawyer when one is not needed especially when the dollar amount is so low. I could understand maybe hiring a lawyer if they won't let him pay or if he defaults or other measures but there is no reason to at this point. Why hire a lawyer when the entire dispute can be settled with a simple phone call?

Again your advice is redundant. You remind me of those dime a dozen lawyers you see on TV all the time. Oh wait there goes an ambulance. You best starting running or it will get away. You might as well start your own commercial for your alleged law practice. If you want to advocate a lawyer on every post then just hop on each one and say something like hire a lawyer and be gone. Otherwise your help has been pretty useless.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 15:27

DOLLARSandSINCE

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DollarsandSince,

Your very title is Debt Samaritan and that tells me that you have compassion and tolerance. I find your last comment very scary. I have read your post many times and have enjoyed evey one and respected the same. I am now worried that something is wrong and if you need to talk please pm me or someone here who will be glad to assist you.

love ya
luke


Submitted by Lukeskywalker on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 15:37

Lukeskywalker

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I was addressing the random guest that changes his name. My comments were not address at a regular poster. He changed his name about half a dozen times in another thread and one of his names was Cellular I thought. Actually now that I reviewd that thread he posted above and below Cellular. Sorry about the confusion it was addressed at the guest and not at Cellular. He just keeps changing his name so I didn't know which one to grab and accidently grabbed Cellulars. Anyway he has made some jabbs at a few other posters besides me and I was just ribbing him back.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Sun, 08/17/2008 - 16:24

DOLLARSandSINCE

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Dollars
The payoff amount they gave me was $2242 after my last payment on Friday of $469. This payoff is good through September 2nd and if I pay it off before then, it will be a little lower because of the interest.

It is very frustrating because I am pretty sure they aren't operating legally and there is nothing I can do about it.

Once I have paid this off and have my title back, I plan on filing as many complaints as I can on companies like this one.


Submitted by johnson7610 on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 08:10

johnson7610

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i feel for you.since the state put the new laws into effect a couple of years ago.i have seen more and more of this.places claiming to be installment loans but the int and terms match a pdl's.the only recourse for now is to pay it,themn file AG,FTC complaints.maybe even contact the dept of finacial institutions.alert them to places like this.


Submitted by paulmergel on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 08:16

paulmergel

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Yeah they are screwing you. I kind of doubt the loan is legal but they are holding your title hostage. I only see 3 options here.

1. Pay them the payoff amount and get your title back as you stated and then go after them.

2. Ignore them and risk losing your car.

3. Hire an attorney to review the loan docs to determine if it is legal. Even though I ripped the guest for suggesting a lawyer that was prior to knowing what the loan payoff was. It is obvious now that they are ripping you off and you need to protect your assests. It might be cheaper to just do option 1 though.


Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 08:36

DOLLARSandSINCE

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You can sell yourself and your cause to an attorney. Here's how:

1. Get all of your documents together. Yes, everything you have. Organize it well, preferably in reverse chronological order. Find out what you can about your opponent and include that too.

2. Get a copy of the Ill. statutes governing payday/title loans. (I'm sorry, I can't do this for you but I'm sure you'll find help here.) Learn what you can about how the courts have interpreted the law. You may find little or nothing; that's alright.

3. Locate others in the same situation with the same lender. As objectively and professionally as possible, compare your situations and see how similar they are. You could start in this forum, but I would probably take the effort offline for the most part, as the other side will be able to see your discussions too easily. Always remember that if litigation goes forward the other side may be entitled to know everything you say about the case outside the presence of your attorney. So again, be objective and professional.

4. Research class action attorneys in your area. Find one close by. Check her bar record. Get references. Then set an appointment with one or more of them.

5. Meet with the lawyer and show her the incredible fraud you've discovered. Tell her you have others willing to step forward as named (or "lead") plaintiffs. Explain why she'll be able to retire off her cut of the fees.

Seriously, these things can be very lucrative (they can also be a pain in the ass), depending on the case.

Be sure to find out how many consumer class actions the attorney has handled. (One or more is fine if it's an otherwise experienced litigator.) Later, you'll check the county court records to be sure you're getting the truth.

If you and the lawyer get along, then congratulations: you're now a part of the "litigation explosion." (Just kidding.)

Why do all this? It may get you a lawyer on contingency. The problem will be off your back. You'll be helping others. You may get to keep your car. Also, here in Cal. and in the Federal Courts, lead plaintiffs in class action lawsuits are routinely awarded bounties for coming forward, assuming you win or the case settles favorably. In the one class action I handled here in Cal., we settled for $1.25m, and the five lead plaintiffs each got $2500: many times what rank-and-file class members received. (My own cut was $75k for 3+ years of very hard work. Don't ask, long story.)

Good luck to you.

Signed,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Ambulance Chaser


Submitted by on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 09:22

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here's a suggestion for you oily guest.GET LOST!!!!!!!!!!
i have had enough of you. four points

1)her payment is due on fri,hardly enough time to get her docs in order.
2)all legal actions take time,by fri they could start repo proceedings.
3)there are different stes of laws for pdl's and title loans.
4)class actions benefit no one but the lawyer.

your stupid bluster is enough,post again i will be there.


Submitted by paulmergel on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 10:37

paulmergel

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I wanted to jump in and give you my experience. I too, got a title loan in IL, mine was through Lighthouse Financial. It was the beginning of the mess I am now dealing sorting through with pd loans. Title loan companies are ruthless. The interest is compounded daily, so if you can only pay the interest, at the end of 8 months, (at least that was what my contract was), you either have a big balloon payment, or can refinance, paying 25% down on principal, as well as the insane high interest rate. After paying 600 a month for six months, I went to a car dealer in my area, explained my situation, and added what I owe to Lighthouse as part of a newer car loan. Granted, I really did not need a car payment, but my payments are less than what I was paying Lighthouse, and at least I have a newer car to drive. Understandably, I was one of the lucky people who were able to do this. I think these types of loans should be banned, as well as the pd loan creeps. All of them seem like the only answer at the time, but in fact, they are worse than loan sharks.


Submitted by on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 11:29

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Thank you for sharing your experience. I have gone through with the paperwork to take the money I need out of my 401K account to pay this off. I should have that in a week and half and can get them off my back. I am just lucky that I am able to do that.

Dollars - I agree with you. I am going with #1, that seems like the safest way to go right now and I won't have to drag out the interest any longer.

Thanks everyone for your comments, I will keep you posted.


Submitted by on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 12:10

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So in other words, johnson will lose her car if she does not make good on the loan. Can she check to see if her loan was sold to another title company? Also, can she turn them in to the AG's office and to the BBB because if she does not have a proper address to mail a payment to the title company, how in the H_________ is she going to make a payment?


Submitted by wssu92 on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 16:16

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I'm a little late to the conversation, sorry bout that.

Any loan in Illinois that is secured by a car title specifically does not meet the definition of a payday loan, and therefore does not have to follow the PDL laws.

However the lender should have a CILA license and be regulated as such. If they aren't licensed, then their lien on the car could be avoidable. I would be hard-pressed to say that any storefront is operating without a license, though. These types of installment loans generally are a simple interest method, which means that interest does accrue every day that you have a balance. For the first 1/3 of the loan, almost all payments are going to interest and very little to principal. Delinquency can also play a BIG factor -- make a payment even 10 days late and there the account has earned an extra 10 days interest that comes out of your payment ....... if you ever get to be 30 days or more delinquent, you will basically owe so much interest that your payments will never touch the principal. And in Illinois the simple interest method is completely legal.

Others have given very good advice, and I can't really say much different. Your goal will be to get it paid off, I think, rather than fight the legality of it. If they are licensed, their calculations are probably correct even though you don't like it.

If you do want to go the legal route, here may be a tip ... most title loans don't actually perfect their lien with the secretary of state. Technically they are supposed to send the title to SOS with an corrected title application, to record their lien. That costs $65. The title stores usually just hold onto the title without actually recording the lien information through SOS. Therefore, when their lien is not perfected, they really are not entitled to repossess a vehicle if they have not dotted their i's and crossed their t's.

You could check with the Secretary of State to see if they have actually recorded the lien. If not, and they repo, you may have legal recourse against them.


Submitted by DebtCruncher on Mon, 08/18/2008 - 16:50

DebtCruncher

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My husband got a title loan on my car the first week in June. The owner died in a car wreck and the buisness is temp. closed We have someone wanting to buy my car but don't know if it is legal. We have the title but still owe 1800.00 at the title loan place. Nobody answers the phone if you call it just goes to voicemail and says that there will not a charge for any late payments. So it has been 3mnths. What should I do?


Submitted by on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 14:00

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I had a title loan once, but it was nothing like the sharks this one is dealing with...mine was no different from a regular monthly car payment. I borrowed $2600, my payoff (principal/interest) was $4173, so my payment a month was for $347.75 for 12 months. I made each payment on time each month and the loan got paid off and I got my title back. No added interest each month, no revolving interest either. Just a flat payment each month, even got a 10 day grace period after each payment was due. Now i'm in CA, not sure if IL title loans are different, but for those who are curious I got mine from Loan Mart, they only deal with certain states and are very helpful, courteous and legitimate, they even let you defer a payment if you fall on hard times....


Submitted by on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 14:58

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