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Please Help with DCS said I need $3,000 in 2 days!!

Submitted by anc526 on Tue, 09/16/2008 - 11:18
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I had a citibank student loan that defaulted. I get a call today for the first time from a lady from DCS with a phone number of 209-858-3612. She told me that I had a balance due of $6,900 and how did I plan to pay that today.

I told her I do NOT have an extra 6 grand laying around and could I set up payments. She said sure no problem she would just have to fill out a financial application.

So she starts asking basic questions about my income etc. When I told her I was unemployed she asked if I got unemployment I told her no and that my husband worked.

Then she started asking where my husband worked, a phone number for his employer, his income etc. My husband isn't even ON this student loan I got it before we even knew each other.

So then she goes on to asking about my mortgage balance, the value of my house, my monthly mortgage payment, who my mortgage is with. Then she wanted to know about my car. I don't have a car my husband and I share one and it's in his name. She wanted to know the make and model. When I finally asked her why she needed to know that in reference to a payment plan she told me that it was for asset discovery!

She originally told me that it was for figuring out if they can get me on a payment plan, then after I give her all this info she says its for asset discovery if they need to go to court. I was almost in tears. And THEN she asks for 3 credit references which they will contact if they can't reach me. I told her I don't have anyone I feel comfortable giving out information for.

She swore they would only call them if they can't get ahold of me, but I doubt that. Then she said I had an incomplete application because I refused to give her references but she will see what she can do.

She put me on hold for 10 minutes, came back and said that I can either settle for $4,985 or make a 50% down payment ($3,115) and then $100 a month until the bill is settled. I told her that isn't an option for me that I don't have that kind of money and then I was told that my account is going to review in 2 days (9/18) and that they will recommend to citibank more stringent collection activities begin.

Today is the first day they ever called and they are giving me 2 days to come with up at LEAST $3,000!! I told her there is no way and she told me to just make a payment of whatever I can and they will see I'm trying and maybe give me to the end of the month to come up with 3k. But even that isn't feasible.

And all this after she lied to me!!

She said she was filling out a payment plan app, but then got information for asset discovery. Isn't that illegal can she really lie to me like that just to get info??

I don't even know what to do.


Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGal1
If you didn't default on your student loan, then why is it with a collection agency? I don't find her to be rude. I find her to be direct. I don't think the two are the same - but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it, just as you are to yours.


i said ive never defaulted before meaning prior to this 1 time she was saying i should know the ropes because im a 2 timer defaulter and im not this is a new area of lmoney land for me and u r entitled 2 ur opinion and yes she is knowledgable but i find her rude agree to disagree i said what i wanted to say to her i voiced my opinion and you really didnt need to get involved


Submitted by concerned1980 on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 11:08

concerned1980

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Sorry, it was the poster before you who defaulted twice. Regardless...you did default on a government loan for whatever reason. I am not going to sugar coat my answers...neither with the collection agency.

Please learn how to use capitals and periods.....your posts are difficult to read.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 11:19

SOAPLADY

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When I asked about it before, they said that my loans were already consolidated. I don't understand how, because when I had them from the bank they never were, and I have never filled out any paperwork to consolidate them.


Submitted by on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 16:10

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I have several Federal loans with Sallie Mae and DCS is now contacting my job for which I am working freelance. They are threatening to garnish my wages. I obviously want to try and start rehab before getting to that point, but I saw you mentioned dealing with the lender directly. Will they have the same or better terms of rehab?


Submitted by on Tue, 11/23/2010 - 21:08

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I almost complete their rehab program for my student loans 2 times due to very hard times, once in 2007 and a 2nd time in 2009. At the end of the 2009 rehab, for what ever reason, they stopped the automatic payments, so they last payment was not made on time and the loan went into default again. The only communication I received was that I "failed to complete the program and now entire balance is now due". I called them to ask why the auto payments stopped and nobody could answer me and all they told me was "there is nothing we can do" All i can say is that they are first rate scammers who go out of their way to screw you over. Now they are going thru the entire "we are going to sue you, garnish your wages, take your tax return", etc. crap. I am home on workers comp, let them have at, no taxes, no wages to get. Then I asked them to help me set up a repayment plan to get out of default and they basically said they wanted full amount. I told them to go pound sand, no possible way on earth i could do that. I asked them if they wanted something or nothing right now, and they still insisted I had to pay full amount. I just hung up.


Submitted by on Tue, 01/18/2011 - 06:43

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Your loan has never been out of default....you have to complete the 9 payments to qualify for a rehab....you never hit that point. Do you not balance your account monthly? Watch for the automated debit? Technically was your responsiblity to make sure that the payments were made monthly.

Look at consolidation under direct loans. Since you are in default you will automativcally be assigned to the income contingent repayment plan.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:36

SOAPLADY

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I had student loans through citi and am still enrolled in school. My graduate school forgot to let citi know i was still a full time student and since they had no record of me being a full time student they began sending me out bills in July. I never received any bills from citi at all. The reason i found this out was by getting a lovely letter from DCS 2 weeks ago saying I owed this loan in full. I called citi to let them know that I have been a full time student and should not have been receiving bills at all and also to let them know I never received a bill. They said they could not do anything becuase it was sent to a collection agency. Is there anything I can do before I setup a payment plan with DCS....I am willing to make arrangements with citi to pay my loan through them so it doesnt show up on my credit report as being in default. Any suggestion or advice would be greatly appreciated?


Submitted by on Fri, 01/21/2011 - 04:38

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It was a private student loan through CITI and I was not out of school at all until December 24th of 2010....I took classed straight through to that date but citi says that i stopped in january of 2010...I had the school fax them over a letter on Friday saying that i was enrolled till december of 2010 but citi still says that since it went to default there is nothing they can do....how is that possible....


Submitted by on Mon, 01/24/2011 - 05:40

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I did not receive any letters nor did my cosigner....They have my correct address which is why I am confused. If I would have received a letter I would have called them right away to square this away. The only reason I found this out was because I got a letter through DCS saying I owed 19K in student loans. I did not receive one letter from citi financial about owing my student loans.


Submitted by on Tue, 01/25/2011 - 04:38

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Greetings,

I was contacted by DCS for one of my private student loans. I took out two private student loans under a servicer called Healthxpress. I was contacted a year ago about my loans being in default status (by another collection agency). I was able to send all the pertinent information required for a forbearance for my loan (I'm currently in residency), and thought the issue was resolved. I find out that the servicer, healthxpress only applied forbearance to one of the loans that I took out, and then transferred out the other loan to another servicer (Access Group). DCS now is contacting me on behalf of Deutsche bank (the Guarantor) in regards to the loan that was transferred, and the supposed servicer, Access Group, states that they have no records of my loan. As a matter of fact neither does the Deustsche bank have any record of my loan. I am trying to negotiate with the Guarantor, the Deutsche bank, a payment plan where I can start payments after complete residency in the next 5 months. I was told by DCS that this is not acceptable and that I have to pay $3000 upfront, and monthly payments of $600 a month, otherwise the balance is to be paid in full. They are threatening legal action. I am hoping to negotiate a deal with the Deutsche Bank...I am entitled to a loan forgiveness paid out over a period of three years, that is sufficient to cover the balance of the private student loan...DCS said this is not acceptable. I'm running out of options. I don't have $3000 laying around at this moment, and don't feel comfortable maxing out my cards to make this payment. Yet I won't be able to afford to pay $600 a month at this point. Any ideas as to how to proceed?


Submitted by on Tue, 01/25/2011 - 13:18

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Quote:

I did not receive any letters nor did my cosigner....They have my correct address which is why I am confused. If I would have received a letter I would have called them right away to square this away. The only reason I found this out was because I got a letter through DCS saying I owed 19K in student loans. I did not receive one letter from citi financial about owing my student loans.


I would be on citibanks back about where and when notices where sent out.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 01/25/2011 - 15:18

SOAPLADY

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I have been on there back everyday for the last 2 weeks. I explained that me and my cosigner never received any letters. I even faxed over the letter showing that I was in school till December 24th but they say since the loan went into collections they can not do a thing. I do not know what else to do in this situation. I even told citi I was willing to work with them and pay wahtever I needed right now to bring the loan current but they explained that once I went into default(not my fault it went into default) that I had to settle with DCS.


Submitted by on Fri, 01/28/2011 - 04:36

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Will that really work?? I just need a solution to this issue and everytime I talk to Citi they basically tell me there is nothing they can do. I have not been in contact with DCS lately because no one picks up their phones. I just dont want to get royally screwed because I decided to fight this issue.


Submitted by on Mon, 01/31/2011 - 04:51

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I just received a letter from DCS threatening action if they do not hear from me about my private student loan debt that I had through Citibank. I have been in repayment and never missed a payment or due date-EVER. I filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy (precisely because I couldn't continue to afford to pay my student loan debt along with the other unsecured medical debt I was drowning in!) in December and am still in the midst of this process-I'm not discharged. And of course my student loans aren't being discharged.

I feel sick that I was DEFAULTED and am now dealing with collections? Any advice would be appreciated. All I wanted was to continue things with Citibank as they were--I hadn't had any issues. I had believed the worst thing that would happen due to my bankruptcy was that the loans would be put in a temporary forbearance until the bankruptcy concluded. I still paid Citibank last month........I just never saw this coming?! How did someone get Citibank to take back the debt from DCS?

Help! I'm so upset!


Submitted by on Mon, 01/31/2011 - 21:36

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Contact DCS and tell them you are in Bankruptcy....the account will be closed and returned to citibank. However, once your BK is discharged, you will be placed with an agency again.

When did you default? Often the act of filing bankruptcy will result in default with student loans, regardless of the fact you are making payments.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 02/01/2011 - 03:15

SOAPLADY

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In the meantime what do I do about DCS??? It has been about 30 days since I was first contacted by them, I Did tell them 2 weeks ago I was going to dispute this debt with Citi and have not heard anything back from them. Can they start garnishing my wages?? I am from PA and I read they can not do that for private loans. Please advise me what exactly to do about the collection agency while I fight this loan. Thanks!


Submitted by on Tue, 02/01/2011 - 05:23

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Thanks Soaplady.

This is the first I ever heard about my defaulted status, so I assume the defaulted status began the day the chapter 7 was filed in December.

But it sounds like this will ultimately be my fate if it will still go to collections after discharge? Any advice on what to expect or be aware of? I'm afraid I won't be able to make the payments I was making to Citibank and they will want more money. If I can't come up with it, do they sue and get some type of judgement? Can they garnish my wages for this? I wonder what the worst case scenario might be. Filling for chapter 7 was hard enough, and trying to make ends meet is a paycheck to paycheck thing for us. I really don't have the ability to pay a bunch more than I was.


Submitted by on Tue, 02/01/2011 - 09:09

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Soaplady,

In the meantime what do I do about DCS??? It has been about 30 days since I was first contacted by them, I Did tell them 2 weeks ago I was going to dispute this debt with Citi and have not heard anything back from them. Can they start garnishing my wages?? I am from PA and I read they can not do that for private loans. Please advise me what exactly to do about the collection agency while I fight this loan. Thanks!


Submitted by on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 12:03

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Let me tell you what they did to me. They threatened me to take my whole disability check. I had to agree to 227 a month. I am now finding out that they should have only taken 15 percent.they bullied me into 25. That is 227 out of a thousand dollars a month. Bankruptcy will not matter. The government if this is a student loan will do what they want. Now i live without lifesaving medicine beacause of these people. I had a heart attack and during the placement of stents i had a stroke. Our government does not care what a hard time you are having..my advice keep on it as best you can.


Submitted by on Fri, 03/04/2011 - 12:21

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Soaplady,

In the meantime what do I do about DCS??? It has been about 30 days since I was first contacted by them, I Did tell them 2 weeks ago I was going to dispute this debt with Citi and have not heard anything back from them. Can they start garnishing my wages?? I am from PA and I read they can not do that for private loans. Please advise me what exactly to do about the collection agency while I fight this loan. Thanks!


Submitted by on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 09:18

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I have been sending letters to citi weekly and also calling and leaving voicemails daily(they are very slow to respond if at all). The school did as much as they can but citi is the one that is difficult to work on and get them to work with me on this situation. I have not taken the attorney general route yet but I guess I can do that this week. I just want to know while I am doing all of this and DCS calls me what can I do/say for the time being? I believe I am correct in the wage garnishment thing correct?? Since I am in PA and it was a private loan that my wages are fine??


Submitted by on Mon, 03/21/2011 - 06:36

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This forum has been very helpful to me thus far, but I'm looking for advice on the best available option as these situations seem to vary greatly.

I have roughly 30k in debt from citibank in non-fedral "private" loans which have been co-signed. For a while I was not working, had them in deferrment, and they came out of deferrment. They had an improper address (which I realize I should have updated with them but forgot - also my fault) and then sent notifications to two incorrect addresses while never contacting me via phone. Finally they began contacting me and I made sure they had proper contact/address/phone numbers and tried to get on a repayment plan. Every call I made, I was then transferred to a department and was either hung up on during the transfer, or was forced to leave a voicemail. I would then be followed up with the voicemail either late at night, or while I was working and unable to take the call. I then received a call from DCS saying that they had taken over as the collection agency for my loan and that I could no longer contact citibank. I ended up having the next two days off, so I called citibank again - verified my information was 100% up to date once more, got any account numbers or information I could from them, and then had them transfer me to the delinquent department (I'm not sure of the name). I was hung up on, but I was prepared - I called back with the number of the department I needed since I had been sure to grab that, and placed my voicemail as I had done countless times before. For the next 1.5 days I waited with my phone in hand, and finally received a call. I was told by the initial rep, and the manager after I realized I was getting no where with the rep, that my debt would not and could not be collected through citibank any longer and that I must deal with DCS. DCS has told me that my debt would show up as defaulted and never "current" or "in repayment" status until the full amount was paid - which is the whole reason I wanted to make sure my debt was being paid through citibank still. This entire time, I've just wanted to begin payments, but was unable to because either A) I did not keep my address current with my lender, and B) because I would get hung up on or transferred to voicemail at which time I would be contacted back during ridiculous times.
What is my best bet at this point?
-They're private loans so to my knowledge they cannot be consolidated through Direct Loans.
-I have a co-signer so I don't want them to get close to the SOL as I don't want the lawsuit to affect my Aunt.
-I just wanted to begin payments and be marked as "current" instead of having such a negative impact on my credit while paying off a loan.
-If I pay DCS for 6 months or whatever the term length is for consecutive payments, will my loan ever be marked as current/repayment and not defaulted (like the DCS rep had told me)?
-From what I've read in the forum, and from speaking with Citibank - there's no way for me to get this back to being handled by Citibank correct (just making sure I didn't miss something)?

Thank you all for your help, as these dealings can be very frustrating (though handling my federal loans was quite easy and I'm very happily in repayment with them).


Submitted by on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:27

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What is my best bet at this point?
Quote:

-They're private loans so to my knowledge they cannot be consolidated through Direct Loans.


Correct
Quote:
-I have a co-signer so I don't want them to get close to the SOL as I don't want the lawsuit to affect my Aunt.

It is/will affect her.
Quote:
-I just wanted to begin payments and be marked as "current" instead of having such a negative impact on my credit while paying off a loan.


Wont happen. You are in default.Private loans default quickly and once in default the balance becomes due in full. Creditwise this affect both of you.
Quote:
-If I pay DCS for 6 months or whatever the term length is for consecutive payments, will my loan ever be marked as current/repayment and not defaulted (like the DCS rep had told me)?


Not to my knowledge....there is no rehab type program private loans.
Quote:
-From what I've read in the forum, and from speaking with Citibank - there's no way for me to get this back to being handled by Citibank correct (just making sure I didn't miss something)?


Correct.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:11

SOAPLADY

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Thank you very much for your reply. As a correction, I meant to say "I don't want a lawsuit as I wouldn't want it to affect my aunt - so what is my best bet to get this taken care of?"

I just got off the phone with them again, and she hung up on me. It seriously seems like citibank & dcs both just don't want my money. I own nothing, and have been rapidly paying off all loans/credit cards and am marked as "current" or "repaying" on all of them..this is the only one I'm having issues with.
The agent hung up on me because I told the agent I didn't have any references ready. She gave a fast talk about how she needs references and will forward this to further collections proceedings now and then hung up...

I've called back twice now that I've pulled up as much contact info I have for the two people that I know would act as references and I'm just getting voicemail.

I just want to start making payments on my loan...I've never had a more difficult time trying to give money to some entity in my life.


Submitted by on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:57

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They dont care what other bills you are paying on. The same goes for your aunt...they will expect her to pay too. They might grant you temporary payments but they will keep pushing for balance in full on demand. They expect the entire balance paid quickly. Even making payments, they will probably end up suing you and your aunt....this is just how private loans function,.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:45

SOAPLADY

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Soaplady: Last night I received a call from DCS for another loan from citi that went into default, same story as before but this time when I actually spoke to someone at citi 2 months ago I had them get information from my school faxed over proving I was in school till december 24th and I never heard anything back from citi and never got a bill from citi so I thought everything was ok and I was just in deferrment. Well I was shocked when I got a call from DCS last night telling me i was delinquent. I have the citibank reps name who said things were squared away for now so I guess I can call them but like "ughcitibank" said it is so hard to get in touch with them because you just have to leave a message and hope they call back at a convenient time for you. I want both of my loans to be repurchased by citibank because this was all there fault but am having a tough time even speaking with people there and the DCS rep said I need to get back to them by Thursday at the latest to setup a payment plan. Like I said before I am having a tough time working my way up the corporate ladder and have sent out many letters and have not heard back. I guess I can try the attorney generals office but for now what do I do about this Thursday deadline from DCS...they still have not said anything about the other collection issue from 2 months ago so I am guessing if I do not get back to them by Thursday then I should not worry too much? I mean they did not even try and recontact me about the previous collection issue after making intial contact. Also since I am in PA and this was a private loan can they garnish my wages. Any and all advice would be much appreciated!! Thanks!


Submitted by on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 03:40

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at least they're working with you on a repayment plan....they won't even talked to me. I've begun writing to cities execs and have started a letter to my state's attorney general. I don't even care if my loan is marked as delinquent the entire time I'm paying it off if only I couldbegin a payment plan and ensure that my co-signer isn't bothered.


Submitted by on Thu, 03/24/2011 - 10:50

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If you are defaulted on private student loans can you apply for federal student loans? I am in a similar situation to "first time defaulter". I have been getting mixed signals about when my student loan actually went into default. I actually noticed a problem because I was attempting to make a payment online and the service wasn't available to me. To make a long story short, my loan is 'defaulted' to DCS, and I too have contacted my college about sending over proof of enrollment. The recovery department won't even talk to me (even though they are handling my account), I have to talk with customer service and during our last conversation they stated that my loan wasn't even "behind in payments for 6 months".. I sent in a payment this week. No one has even talked with me about making payments. All I keep saying is that I want to make payments and get this cleared up. I'm kind of confused as to how this happened, but I'm sure the replies will be, you should have seen it coming. Before those responses, I do have federal student loans and another private student loan that I got at the exact same time as this "defaulted" loan --- I am making payments on these because they went into the "repayment" as stated. My original question is, if I don't get this "default" status cleared up by a miracle of them either realizing the mistake they made in an oversight in my academic status or by somehow coming up with all the money to pay it off in one lump sum -- will I be able to get regular federal financial aid in the fall? I only have one year left and need to know how to budget appropriately. Thanks.


Submitted by on Fri, 04/01/2011 - 23:09

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I was contacted by DCS and told that my student loan was going into review to see if my wages were going to be garnished. I got this phone call on a Monday and my review was on Wednesday. This is the first time I ever received any notice of this so-called "review" or a call from DCS. DCS explained my options, but the application to be approved felt like they were going to ask me to take a drug test next. I was approved, but they wanted 280 at that exact moment. Since I refused to give them my bank info over the phone they and I don't own a cc they told me to ask somebody I knew to use their account for direct debit. And that a money order wouldn't be accepted. And was told to go to a bank and open an account just for them.

They also called from another state and wanted me to send my money to their main headquarters. I was told that the option to send payments directly to my loaner wasn't on the list. Soaplady-how come I can't contact my original loaner and set up a payment plan with them?


Submitted by on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 16:53

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If this is a federal loan, you are in default. Your original lender filed a claim with your guarantor...and the guarantor contracted with DCS. So the original lender is out of the picture.

Sounds like they are offering you a rehab for your loan...go open a free checking account and take advantage of it! Otherwise they WILL start the garnishment process and this does not require a court order.

Calling from out of state is irrelevant....they are licenced in all 50 states...they are also contractor for the US Dept of Education. The default should not be coming as a surprise for you.....letters and calls have been made/attempted to you over the last 9 months.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 19:00

SOAPLADY

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I set up payments through DCS in December and was originally told that I would have to pay for 9 consecutive months. I was working with a gentleman at DCS and he was very helpful. I recently called just to see if we were still set for the 9 month plan and I found out that the gentleman I was working with no longer works there. I left several messages with my new credit counselor and they have yet to call me back. I just called my bank and stopped payment on future payments until I can get in touch with someone at DCS. I am also going to write to the Dept of Education to let them know the reason why I stopped payment.


Submitted by on Tue, 06/19/2012 - 15:23

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Quote:

I set up payments through DCS in December and was originally told that I would have to pay for 9 consecutive months. I was working with a gentleman at DCS and he was very helpful. I recently called just to see if we were still set for the 9 month plan and I found out that the gentleman I was working with no longer works there. I left several messages with my new credit counselor and they have yet to call me back.


He is NOT a credit counselor....he is a collector. DCS is a USDOE vendor collection agency. Turn over is high at all agencies...did you ask for a manager? Really there is no need for the call...nothing will happen until after the 9 payments are completed and quite frankly, you would not be seen as a priority call.

Quote:
I just called my bank and stopped payment on future payments until I can get in touch with someone at DCS. I am also going to write to the Dept of Education to let them know the reason why I stopped payment.


Big mistake. They could end up throwing your account immediately into garnishment for the stop pay. Writing the DOE wont do squat.....you really had a non issue to start.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Tue, 06/19/2012 - 15:28

SOAPLADY

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SoapLady - If you feel like your DCS agent is harrassing, threatening, and patronizing you, can you request for a different agent?

Will it cause further repercussion if you ask to speak with a manager?


Submitted by on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 11:26

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SOAP LADY- Is it reasonable to ask for a different collector if you feel like your current one is harrasing, threatening, and patronizing you?

Will it cause futher repercussions to ask to speak with a manager?

When DCS agent states that they they are checking with the manager and puts you on hold for two minutes are they really checking with their manager?


Submitted by on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 11:33

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What do you consider harassment? What are they threatening you with?

You have to understand collectors are not there to customer service you....you are not the customer. Demanding you pay your debt in full, asking for financial information, threatening or recommending garnishment is all part of their job. They should be polite, but yes, demanding. That is there job. Now if they are calling you a looser or swearing at you, that would be out of line. SO please clarify.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 11:35

SOAPLADY

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Thank god i did not take out any student loans; one of my co workers works less hours and of courses gets paid less than i do; i work between 20-25 hrs week for now.

I had picked her up from her home to come here and job search on my computer (to get a better job) she read this and was in tears (the only payments she has is her car insurance and her car payment which all together is 186 and she only makes 132 every paycheck before anything is taken out. We was both wondering this; if they can garnish up to 100% of your wages then how do they expect you to make your car payment/insurance plus gas? She is sending as much as she can in and using my computer to job search; her mom died a few years ago and its just her and her dad and after her mom passed he had to file Chapter 7-she does not pay rent living with him and does not get any help from government assistance (she chooses not to) and i help her out with food and i also help her out with gas money hear and there; but how do they expect her to get back and forth to work or even look for a better job if they take 100%? Doesn't that kinnda defeat their purpose? No income to pay for car payment/insurance/gas...

I am just wondering about all of this...she is in tears over here and im just trying to help her out as much as i can. My parents/stepparents have also helped out with her and her dad.

With this economy and the shape its in...its hard to find a job even with little/no experience. I know she makes 11.00 per hour 6 hours a week. Even i am having trouble finding a better job.


Submitted by on Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:59

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In reply to by Anonymous (not verified)