Genesee Valley Associates called from 800 392 3100 & threatened to sue

It is difficult for some third party collection agencies to obtain the paperwork you folks request. Simply because it is not always transfered as it gets sold to different collection agencies. Just a downfall of the system we operate in. In most cases I will just advise a consumer to check their CBR, as the agency will (should) be shown as the owner of the debt. Also, in most cases the collection agency calling you is not working on behalf of the creditor, so they do not always even have access to all of the paperwork. They should be able to provide you with a validation of debt-basically paperwork showing they are the rightfull owners of the account. Also, most consumers just use the requesting of this paperwork as a stall tactic. So some collection agencies take it as a sign the consumer will not ever pay anyway. It is easier to just sell it off then actually sue the consumer

Can't they obtain that paperwork through the same liaison that the original contracted CA used?

sometimes it can be 8-10 collection agencies removed. It is just not as easy as it should be.

Well, for me, therin lies the problem.

When the oc charged us off, after paying for 23-25 years on an account and sold it- a junk debt buyer bought it. Originally I told them about the debt, we had overpaid by thousands, etc. They didn't validate that they had they debt-passed it to another, and the cyle got viscious. I cannot count how many CAs have sent letters- wouldn't know who really had the debt-no one can provid me with anything that even resembles they might have the debt.

There are also CAs who try to collect from people that do not ,or never had a debt to begin with- thus the debt validation process..KAren

Happy New Year to Collectorman and our other resident collectors! I appreciate your point of view and thank you for coming here. :D

Bossy, from our point of view..some of the responsibility lies with the consumers. Do you have the paperwork to show that you overpaid? If so any half-way legit collector should take that into account and either credit you the money towards the bill, or close it.
We as collection agencies will never close account without written proof. The same way you as conumers should never pay bills that you do not have the offer in writing!

Cajun---Happy New Year to you too!!!

[quote=brooklyn184]It is difficult for some third party collection agencies to obtain the paperwork you folks request. Simply because it is not always transfered as it gets sold to different collection agencies. Just a downfall of the system we operate in. In most cases I will just advise a consumer to check their CBR, as the agency will (should) be shown as the owner of the debt. Also, in most cases the collection agency calling you is not working on behalf of the creditor, so they do not always even have access to all of the paperwork. They should be able to provide you with a validation of debt-basically paperwork showing they are the rightfull owners of the account. Also, most consumers just use the requesting of this paperwork as a stall tactic. So some collection agencies take it as a sign the consumer will not ever pay anyway. It is easier to just sell it off then actually sue the consumer[/quote]

I understand and appreciate your position. Having said that, I'm certain that you will appreciate my points here.

Without paperwork to properly validate the debt, how am I to know if it's legitimate or not?

Check my CBR? Right. Collecion agencies [in general, not pointing any fingers here] never enter bogus information, do they?

You don't have access to the paperwork? Tough. Why not? You didn't get it from the seller when you bought the debt? Then you bought a defective product. Not my problem, go after the seller.

Legally, validation requires more than just proof of ownership of the account, and we both know it. Quit stalling and deliver the goods as required by law, or admit that you bought a defective debt and close the account.

Requesting validation of a debt is a stalling tactic? Hardly. In today's junk-debt-fueled climate, it's a necessary precaution. If I call you up and say you owe me a few grand from 'way back in the day, are you gonna sennd it to me Western Union before 5:00 PM? Didn't think so.

OK, so you've got a defective debt that's uncollectible because you can't validate. Hmmm.... What to do? Admit you screwed up? Or sell it to the next collector, thus perpetuating the cycle, proving that your agency has the ethical sense of a turnip, and [dare I hope] leaving yourself liable for selling a defective debt.

Again, this is not to point any fingers. Just presenting a differing point of view. Have a great holiday!

[quote=brooklyn184]Bossy, from our point of view..some of the responsibility lies with the consumers. Do you have the paperwork to show that you overpaid?[/quote]

Umm.... Don't look now, but you just proved my point. Thanks! :)


[quote=brooklyn184]If so any half-way legit collector should take that into account and either credit you the money towards the bill, or close it.[/quote]

If you're all that legit, and she has the paperwork to prove a massive overpayment, how about you just refund the nice lady's cash? Yeah, I know. You aren't the ones who overcharged her. But you say you legally own the account now, so in my book, you're responsible. Pay up.

My point was more speaking to the debtors who know very well about the debt but hide behind requesting paperwork to stall the proceedings. Or the debtors who hide behind the statue of limitations as a reason they are not paying back the debt. If the debtor honestly doesnt know about the debt, a responsible collector SHOULD do everything possible to validate the debt. Again, I am more speaking to the "professional" debtors who use the system against itself. And to answer your question, yes I would send you the money--just not western union!
As a collector I cannot afford to take what a debtor tells me at face value. It doesnt sound strange to you if someone said they overpaid by thousands of dollars?
Also I have a huge problem with the term Junk debt. Do you think collectors sit at home making this stuff up? It is not junk, just because it may be a little older does not mean you don't owe it. Put yourself in the shoes of the creditor. They gave you the money, don't you have an ethical responibilty to pay it back? What if these people borrowed money from you, would it matter if it was 2 years past due? Is it junk to you?

Sorry Brooklyn184, I always request validation because I want to know if the person that is saying I owe it actually owns it. I had a collection agency (still not sure if they were real) call me trying to collect on an account that was being handled by another agency that I was paying off. The only info they could give me is what is on my credit report (I think someone did a promotional check) I called the company I was dealing with and they were not aware of it. After that I always want to get solid proof as my check book is stretched tight enough as it is and I want to make sure that everything I spend is going to where it is supposed to go.

But if it's mine and you own it, I'll pay it.

Jcemt- That actually happens because most accounts are not sold indivdualy but as bigger portfolio's. Basically they are just excel spreadsheets,so mistakes can be made when one account is double sold. All you would have had to have done was provide some documentation to the second agency and they HAVE to back off.

The accounts are just excel spreadsheets? Thats not very efficient.

my point is very simple I think

If someone knows they owe a debt but then has a collection agency calling them..they should always request validation..not as a stall tactic or an attempt to hide from the debt..but as proof for themselves that when they do pay..it will be cleared up from legitimate company and will not be resold to someone else..

in this world of identity fraud..junk debt portfolios..etc brooklyn has proven to me that everyone should request validation..

it should not be hard at all to prove that someone actually owes the debt you are trying to collect..that is why the term "debt validation" originated

it's not about payment or overpayment verification ..I don't think..the proof lies with the accuser as it always should and always will..not at all a stall tactic I don't think ..but instead a matter of common sense

also as an afterthought
I think that unless you have the paperwork and the proof
upfront ...and can back that up

you should never be able to contact individuals and attempt to collect anything

perhaps I am being naive

:shock:

SocksRocks...what you are talking about is not debt validation it is called an affidavit of debt. Proving the ownership of the debt by the company in question. That is easy. I agree with you on that point. Requesting Validation of debt includes full itemization and much more paperwork. That is harder.

we always request a debt validation for any old debt. Not just to prove ownership, but we want the debt validated. Proven that it is ours , the correct amount of the debt, and a whole list of other things. It does not matter if it is harder to get, it is our right to have it.

The part I am confused about---How many/much credit cards/debt do you have that you are not sure it is yours? That is the part I never understood about validating. I can understand if you never had it...

brooklyn, use google and read the Federal case of DBA vs Snow. Once you have read it completely,you will have a idea why I advocate validation.

I also would just encourage Brooklyn to search this sight of how many people have had unknown debts that they have already settled or thought they did..show up on credit report years later..for instance during financing or refinancing a home.. ..
how about if they paid it once? then twice? and it still shows up ten years later ? Because proper validation of the debt was never originally requested as far as who actually owned it and what the amount owed to settle debt once and for good was?
Validation is not a stall tactic or an added excuse for someone not to pay...it is instead a needed piece of information that consumer files and can provide years later if debt unexpectedly shows up again with a different name and number.

It is difficult for some third party collection
agencies to obtain the paperwork you folks request. Simply because it is not always transfered as it gets sold to different collection agencies. Just a downfall of the system we operate in. In most cases I will just advise a consumer to check their CBR, as the agency will (should) be shown as the owner of the debt. Also, in most cases the collection agency calling you is not working on behalf of the creditor, so they do not always even have access to all of the paperwork. They should be able to provide you with a validation of debt-basically paperwork showing they are the rightfull owners of the account. Also, most consumers just use the requesting of this paperwork as a stall tactic. So some collection agencies take it as a sign the consumer will not ever pay anyway. It is easier to just sell it off then actually sue the consumer

these are your words Brooklyn..I think it would be much easier if your industry would simply provide facts and proof..people who stall or act like they don't intend to pay probably don't believe company has provided enough validation..perhaps I am wrong ...but can understand why people don't trust your industry..yet I do value your opinion as you have been very respectful in your posts that I have seen...

[quote=brooklyn184]My point was more speaking to the debtors who know very well about the debt but hide behind requesting paperwork to stall the proceedings. Or the debtors who hide behind the statue of limitations as a reason they are not paying back the debt.[/quote]

Proving my point is my job. You should stop doing it for me, huh?

Agreed that there are some percentage of people who are, as you call them, 'professional debtors'. There's good and bad pretty much everywhere. How is it that you, as a collector, know who's a professional debtor and who's trying to play straight but has fallen into a stretch of hard luck? You can't. Credit reports? So what? They only show a maximum seven years, and only a thin summary of that. That's not enough information to prove intent. Are you psychic?

[quote=brooklyn184]If the debtor honestly doesnt know about the debt, a responsible collector SHOULD do everything possible to validate the debt.[/quote]

So... Again, how do you know whether or not they know about the debt? Or have honestly forgotten it, if they did know? Mental telepathy?

[quote=brooklyn184]And to answer your question, yes I would send you the money--just not western union!
As a collector I cannot afford to take what a debtor tells me at face value. It doesnt sound strange to you if someone said they overpaid by thousands of dollars?[/quote]

You oughtta PM me your phone number so I can call you about that $26k. I'd like a new Harley for spring. Seriously, after your statement about taking things at face value, do you expect an alleged debtor to do precisely that? Please don't be disingenuous.

And no, it doesn't sound all that strange to me that somebody could pay thousands more than they owe, over a period of decades. People move, papers get lost, memories fade. In short, we're all human.

[quote=brooklyn184]Also I have a huge problem with the term Junk debt.[/quote]

You will, perhaps, understand if your discomfort fails to move me. The term is accurate. Grow a pair and live with it.

[quote=brooklyn184]Do you think collectors sit at home making this stuff up? It is not junk, just because it may be a little older does not mean you don't owe it.[/quote]

How am I to know how some collectors arrive at their information? Unlike you, I'm not telepathic. If it's old, then yes, it's probably still valid. In which case you or the original creditor should be paid as promptly as possible, after you validate the debt. If you can't validate the debt as required by law, then yes, it's junk. As in legally defective. Lacking in merit.

[quote=brooklyn184]Put yourself in the shoes of the creditor. They gave you the money, don't you have an ethical responibilty to pay it back?[/quote]

Sorry, boy. That sympathy line don't work on me. You want sympathy? It's in the dictionary, 'bout halfway between sh*t and syphillis.

[quote=brooklyn184]What if these people borrowed money from you, would it matter if it was 2 years past due? Is it junk to you?[/quote]

Not at all. Unlike some, I'd simply drag out the papers to respond promptly to their request for validation. If that didn't do it, I'd pursue the matter legally. What I wouldn't do is call umpteen times a day, cause them problems at work, make a bunch of idle threats, lie, and all the other things that make collectionagencies so cute and loveable.

[quote=brooklyn184]Jcemt- That actually happens because most accounts are not sold indivdualy but as bigger portfolio's. Basically they are just excel spreadsheets,so mistakes can be made when one account is double sold.[/quote]

Spreadsheets?

Listen. I'm an IT consultant that deals a lot with data warehousing. It's not a big deal to provide full documentation when you sell a debt portfolio. There are any number of good, reliable document-management solutions on the market that would allow all the papers to be kept track of, long term. Some of the best solutions are even free to use. Spreadsheets are fine, but they are meant to be used as worksheets, not primary documentation.

[quote=brooklyn184]All you would have had to have done was provide some documentation to the second agency and they HAVE to back off.[/quote]

And sell it to another agency, right? Gimme a break......

[quote=socksfullofrocks]my point is very simple I think

If someone knows they owe a debt but then has a collection agency calling them..they should always request validation..not as a stall tactic or an attempt to hide from the debt..but as proof for themselves that when they do pay..it will be cleared up from legitimate company and will not be resold to someone else..

in this world of identity fraud..junk debt portfolios..etc brooklyn has proven to me that everyone should request validation..

it should not be hard at all to prove that someone actually owes the debt you are trying to collect..that is why the term "debt validation" originated

it's not about payment or overpayment verification ..I don't think..the proof lies with the accuser as it always should and always will..not at all a stall tactic I don't think ..but instead a matter of common sense[/quote]

You, my friend, have hit the nail squarely on the head. Kudos.

There are other reasons for demanding validation in full, and you know it. Does your agency actually have the right and authority to collect this debt? [And don't tell me to check my CBR, either. I'm not that big a fool.] How do I know the amount is right? Why should I be asked to pay fees unless I understand why they were added. Come on, brooklyn184. You're straining your credibility here.

hmnnnn.....unc
please don't prove to me that your response questioning credibility drove someone away?????

I really thought collectorman now BrooklynYadayada was here to help..
hope will respond again.....!!!!

Nope...still here. Just not going to go round and round. You guys have your vaild points. I think I do too. Just not going to beat the dead horse.

Brooklyn is smart enough to avoid flames,but he is still lurking. :lol:

brooklyn... I honestly feel your inputs from the other side are a plus here and I am glad you are still lurking!!!!
but about beating the dead horse..I swear to ya this is what happened to me last nite..husband and I have 4 horses on property and one of them laid down last night we got home around 10:30..we couldn't get her up..even used our tractor as last resort..vet couldn't be reached that late.. I swear I thought our beloved "molly mc butter" was a gonner...
vet shot that sick horse full of something this morning and she is friskier right now than she has been in five years!
I too would never beat a dead horse..but I wouldn't give up on one who is simply lying down and needs help!

hmnn person left or is just posting under different name now? whatever! sorry this person left when challenged!

numerology very lucky for some a3t203lxdx! hope it works out 4 you!

I'm not gone...I just could not figure out what to say to a lady on a horse?? But glad to hear Molly is still kicking. That is one pretty bridge though!

hi Brooks..Molly is now no longer kicking as we speak that shot of wonder juice from the vet.. I think just allowed her to bring us more joy and remember her in the majestic glory that she once was before our now"dead horse" has been hauled off and buried..yet beating the dead horse and the brooklyn bridge are still very pretty images so to speak..

what to say to a lady on a horse? or a man on a horse? or no horse in the picture? same thing as anyone would say to anyone? thanks again for your response!

Inuyaha. Nice

:D thanks Jcemt ..every now and then I manage to get it right! :D :D :D :D

Genesee is a scam...they have contacted several of my friends and family about a debt that was a charge-off but paid after dealing with an attorney...much to my suprise, Genesee is claiming that it was not paid. This debt was about 6 years old now and I paid it 2 years prior. Luckily, I kept the receipt of the full payment...so you see...Genesee sought out people with old debts and especially the ones that are soon to be discarded...any debt after 7 years old CANNOT be collected unless otherwise directed by the creditor through a legitimate attorney. You must receive a written letter, a phone call cannot be considered a legitimate debt without proof in documentation. Genesee does not have attorneys. By writing a cease and desist letter to them will stop the phone calls and by law, since you made that request Certified Return Receipt and by fax, they must comply otherwise you have the proof you need to file suit against them and collect monetarly. Genesee is a scam and there are several people who call and have several AKA. My attorney has filed a suit against them for the illegal practices as well as their harrassment.

To the obnoxious guy defending all the dead beats!!! - Listen Buddy, some collectors are rude, and dismissive, but that is mainly because debtors fail to pay their bills, and become responsible adults. Simple fact - pay your bills and don't get harassing calls. Or, if you owe money, make arrangements as soon as possible, and keep your promise!!! fdcpa laws are here to guide consumers, and to mediate prevalent issues...thats it.

i see joe troll is back.listen,the fdcpa is in place to stop people like you from acting criminally.by the way to threaten arrest,garnishment.calling everyone iv'e ever met.calling work constantly is against the law,the FDCPA to be exact.so glad you returned to show everybody what and the FDCPA is meant to stop.YOU JOE TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe Black, we know about you and your momma.

I live in Northern California, I own some money to a credit card that I trying to negotiate, but sudenly my debit card was blocked during this long weekend, I wonder if in califonia debt collectors Agencies can sue debtors and seize bank accounts without going to court?

Are you sure that a judgement hasn't been issued against you? Some of the lowlife collection agencies get judgements quite often becuse people haven't been properly served and don't know they are being sued. Check with the county clerk to see if a judgement has be issued against you.

Well, in Pennsylvania today we got two calls from GV & Associates, and from what I see here, I can pretty much say I know who they are now. It's nice to see a company so diligent they'll try to collect a debt that was paid, oh let's see - six years ago. I'm sure you'll no doubt note the sarcasm in that entire last sentence.

For those looking, numbers are
1-866-508-0646 and 585-568-5912
Kim Andrews and Thomas Christianson were the callers.

I don't think I'm going to pay them a bill that is already been paid. Instead, I think I'll let them listen to our smark aleck answering machine message, until I get bored with them. Then, send them a photocopy of the receipt,...inside one of those cards that laughs at you when you open it. In my opinion, company's such as this one should be laughed at whole heartedly, and of course, frequently.

By the way Unclewulf, nice tunes dude!

I too have heard from this company and after politely requesting information in writing, via US Mail, and they balked and started to get nasty. I also informed that my employer does not approve of my receiving personal calls while at work.

I make it a point to be courteous to people on the phone, debt collector or otherwise. This woman was just plain nasty and argumentative. She threatened everything under the sun, from wage garnishment to "GVA suing" me. I was polite the whole time and kept requesting more information from them. She then hung up and called back to my employer. I'm not sure what my employer said to them but I haven't heard anything about them calling back.

Oh, and this company is NOT on my credit report in any way shape or form. This refusal for information is a bit unsettling.

Wilson Data Services
477 W 38th St
Houston, TX 77018
800-392-3100

From my experience with CA's there just doing there job. You dont pay your bills your going to deal with companies like them. They're just trying to help you pay off your debt. Just when a company like their's contacts you make sure there legit. Yeah they might be threating you, but come on, there trying to help you pay off your debt.
One piece of advice, before you make any settlement do your research and find out the exact amount you owe. Then talk business. These companies will settle for 60% of what you owe or maybe even less. Good luck

nice,real nice.if by researching you find out that you don't owe or this company has no right to collect then what?keep getting threatened?don't think so.personally i will never pay anybody by phone.any collector that demands that is a bottomfeeder.good luck to you too.

I've worked for them before and they are very serious when it comes to legal proceedings for a debt that large. Sorry but they will pursue this for you. The debt is also new enough, legal statute in each state is different but this is less thank a year, that they are more likely to file legal proceedings.

Nice try, shill. Or didn't you notice that the last post in this thread was more than six months old?

The person that called me is Charles Carmichael and wants me to verify a SS# first before giving me any info. AS if I am that dumb. Don't give out any info. They called me at home and on my cell. Refer them to an attorney and they'll usually shut up and hide.

Nobody can sue you over the phone, or even via regular mail. You have to be properly served, and even then, the list goes on and on. Do you actually owe the debt? You have to right to question that. Are they even properly assigned? Were you given notice that your account was assigned? Do you have a contract with this agency? (probably not. you only have a contract with the original party)

sounds like a scare tactic. Most collection agencies are scammers, and you can probably find a law or two they violated and then take them to court yourself.

But if its a collection law firm, thats a different story, but find out..