Can the collection agencies follow

Well, if your debt is large enough to sue you for, you might be making it very easy on them to obtain a default judgement. A judgement has a very long life, so unless you are sure you will never live in the states again, I would advise trying to take care of your debts. Also, some states have provisions where the SOL stops if you leave the state.

I do doubt that a CA would follow you out of country, as they would have to abide by debt collection laws of the country of your residence--not many people here are likely to be familiar with those.

They won't literally follow you over there to sue you in that country. But you can bet that if they find your phone #, they will still call and hound you - even if you tell them you are not in the states, they won't care.

When talking to a 3rd party collection agency (attorney office), aren't they suppose to disclose that they are debt collectors? Is it enough for then to just start convo and tell you about amount of money you owe?

Question #2- Can a collector leave message on your machine saying this call is to collect a debt? (it was an automated message)

If I am thinking correctly, they have to identify where they are calling from and the reason for the call. Most collection agencies will leave an automated message that states to call a number and that it is an important matter. I really don't think they can leave a message like that.

No, a debt collector may only leave a message stating to call back for an important matter. Leaving a message on a machine or even voice mail should constitute a 3rd party disclosure violation. Save the message and look for an attorney. naca.net would be a good place to start.

When speaking to a debtor, they are required to give the "This is an attempt to collect a debt..," aka the Mini Miranda. They should also attempt to verify your identity, to make sure they don't violate 3rd party disclosure (again).

I didn't think they could. This happened months ago and I still have the voicemail. I sent a complaint to my attorney general office and they responsed discussing very thing but my two issues. I have to response back to the rep from the state. I will reinterate what my issue was and asked that they address it. I actually trying to get them to send me a paid in full letter. so I don't have to pay the debt. The SOL is out in 2009, but I trying to contact the original creditor for back statements and last payments received because I don't believe it was 2002, more like 2000.

i hate when collection agents call and leave a long message on my answering machine and lie and say that i have 7 days to call back or they will take legal actions against me.

Blinky,save that message because it is a violation of fdcpa if that is a debt collector.

If it is your voicemail, how are they violating 3rd party disclosure? I can see if they leave it in the general info box at your work, anyone can access it. But if your message states "You've reached John Smith, leave me a message," then it is fair to assume John Smith is the only one who should be acessing that voicemail.

I previously wrote some in depth postings in this thread:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/collection-agencies/leaving-message.html

Debtcruncher,The comment I made was in regard to payment in 7 days or legal action will start. That is misleading,deceptive,and probably an action that they won't take unless that is an attorney calling.

Ok cajun, you're off the hook. But Morningstar is still guilty off saying a voicemail should constitute 3rd party disclosure.

Anytime I have ever threated to sue someone on their voicemail, I meant it. And if they don't call back, usually within 2 weeks I pack it up and ship it to my attorney.

OMG, there was just another post earlier about moving to Mexico to get away from debt, are you guys serious? Not being ignort just surprised that someone would think about leaving the country to escape debt, may be prison but not debt, LOL.

I posted that knowing that not every voicemail is private, although in retrospect, "should," should have been "could." Also, I was taught to never assume anything, and err on the side of caution when leaving a message anywhere.

Ok morningstar, you're off the hook too. Just don't let it happen again.

All kidding aside, it is a good policy to err on the side of caution. I only leave really personal messages when I know with 100% certainty it is the right voicemail box. If a customer lives with his parents, and I get "You've reached the smith residence," then I do leave a generic message.

Debtcruncher,I don't beleive you would even have to worry about the statute since you are a original creditor.

When I first started my job, I printed out a copy of the fdcpa and highlighted the part where it defines debt collector and says it excludes the original creditors. I brought it to work with me, thinking I had just found the miracle fine print, showed it to my boss and said "I don't think we have to follow this thing." His response to me: "Probably not. Why, do you plan on having someone killed?"

There is a section of our state law, regarding our loan license, that prescribes what licensees can/can't do. We still can't threaten to have someone arrested, we can't talk about the debt with third parties, and we can't threaten to sue if we really aren't going to.

You are correct.Most states have some type of regulations for creditor to collect on. Usually as you have stated it is buried in banking or finance code.

for clarify..my v/m is a general message that does not give a name..(machine response msg)

In my state a CA must post a bond and be of course licensed. Collection attorneys don't have to be licensed as a CA, but still fall under the fdcpa as third party collectors.

Novice, even though your V/M has a general message, nonetheless it is your voicemail. To make a claim that they disclosed information to a third party, you would need to prove that they did indeed do so. Speculation that they could have disclosed info, because they weren't 100% positive it was your voicemail, isn't by itself an act of wrongdoing.

The key question is, who was the end recipient? Did you retrieve the message or did someone else retrieve the message? If you got the message before anyone else did, then they succesfully reached their target without breaching any laws.

If someone else got the message first, I would still say there's another issue at play - that is, who pays for that phone/voicemail. If it is your phone account and you pay the bill, then it is not the CA's fault if you let someone else check your messages.

I thought about that..but I strongest argument is the "mini-miranda" they never game. They never said they were debt collectors(even though I knew), they just jump to talking about amounts.

In that area I'm not 100% sure. I know the law says their initial communication, whether oral or in writing, must disclose that they are debt collectors. It also says subsequent communication must disclose that fact too.

So for this purpose, does leaving a voicemail constitute a communication having been made? I would think so. But then we have a catch 22 - going back to third party disclosure. If they are required to leave the mini-miranda on a voicemail that says "this is a communication from a debt collector, it is an attempt to collect a debt" -- what happens now if they did leave that message on the general vm box at work and your coworker checks it. In essence, they complied with the disclosure part, but while doing so, gave out the fact that you owe a debt to a third party. Damned if they do, damned if they don't?

I don't know.

My bad, re-reading the post I see you actually had two separate questions. I thought you meant do they have to leave the mini-miranda on the voicemail...

If you are calling them, they usually have a pre-recorded disclosure message that plays before it connects you with a live person. If not, then really the live person should be disclosing that they are a debt collector.

If they are calling you, and you answer the phone, they would generally say "This is John from ABC Collections." You say "okay". They say, "XYZ company placed your account with us for collections..." There's your disclosure.

My question, to get nitpicky, is how do they jump right to the amount due part? Do you answer the phone and they say "This is John, you owe me $400." If so, then they are breaking the law. The problem after that becomes- how do you prove it? You would need proof to substantiate a claim that they did not provide proper disclosures.

What kind of debt is it?

credit card debt.

New question..is the a way to stall a 3rd party collector, while you are trying to get info from the original creditor?

Validating will slow them down as long as it is done within 30 days of receipt of their letter. Your first contact would be the phone call.On that initial call,if no mini-miranda was given,it is a violation. If you do not receieve a written letter from them within 5 days of that call,it will be another violation.Since they have shown a lax attitude in following the fdcpa,read up on it and let them pay your debt for you. :mrgreen: