FDCPA reform

JCMENT!

I'm with you 100% on the fdcpa needing to be overhauled. As I understand it, the current version was passed in 1996? Am I correct? If so, it definitely is a little dated and certainly has not kept up with technology. I also think the penalty for violating the FDCPA should not have a cap on it; as you stated $1,000.00 is hardly a deterrent to keep CA's from violating the FDCPA. And I know I raised this subject before; however, I think the FDCPA should be applicable to the OC as well. Some of them can be just as nasy as the worse CA's.

Heck the price of speeding tickets keeps going up; why not the price of violating the FDCPA?

The accounts that junk debt buyers purchase and successfully collect on are seeing profit margins between 50%-95%. It's way too profitable for $1k to hurt any of them unless everyone started doing it.

I would hope that as more people find this site, and sites like it, they become more educated in the ways of the Dark Side (Errrr I mean CA's) and start holding them more accountable. If more people start hitting them for $1,000.00 a pop, not to mention lodging complaints with the FTC, their stats AG's office, and the BBB, the negative publicity will force them to change their ways.

Another thing I think should be included in the fdcpa is if a debt collection agency cannot provide validation of a debt then they should not be able to just sell it to another CA.

Actually the law is on the books about selling a account that is disputed.People just don't enforce it enough,but it is a 1. I do agree the laws need one heck of a lot more teeth.

Could you tell me what statute I might be able to find that in? I can't seem to find it anywhere under the fdcpa.

Yes, I've said it before. The fdcpa needs to raise the fines for violations to at least $10,000 or $20,000. $1000 is a joke, and the reason why it is difficult for many consumers to find an attorney to take their case.

$20,000 is s good round number. I was thinking, though, maybe the fine should be 5 times whatever the alleged debt is. That way the debtor can use the proceeds to pay off the debt, take care of any additional expenses (since the CA has to pay the attorney's fees) like the attorney's cut, and still have a little left over for their own use.

Just a thought, still, I wouldn't say "Heck No!" to $10,000.00 or $20,000.00. I still think CA's would violate the fdcpa, not matter what the fine. I think the really bad violators think the FDCPA just doesn't apply to them.

It is a joke, and Ron pretty much hit the nail on the head. The bad ones don't think it applies to them, or as someone else once stated, they treat it as merely a cost of doing business.

Yea and when a co is making "billions" of dollars yearly, what's $1,000 to them?? It's a joke! I guess in this case it is the cost of doing business in their minds but most importantly in thier pocket books!
:roll:
Ang

Jcemt the law I am referring to is in the fdcpa. By selling a debt in dispute it is a clear misrepresentation of the account and the buyer may also have a cause of action under statutes of fraud.

You're right cajun. I also think the fdcpa should be expanded to mention debt purchasing. This is all largely unregulated now.

Do any of u think that the junk debt buyers are the ones who violate the most?? I've had to deal with a medical CA once before and they were actually MORE helpful and knowledgable than the OC (hospital) They were very kind and understanding as i had already paid the amt due to the hospital... now when i called the hospital they really weren't helpful at all or didn't seem to know what i was saying to them! :roll:
Anyway, so my question is, do u all think it's the junk debt buyers that are the bottom feeders here??
:?
Ang

Yes Ang, that's what I believe. Junk debt buyers have billions of dollars on paper. Recently, they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, with many sending out dunning letters which all but admit the debt if out of the SOL (for example, "date of last activity - April 12, 1992").

I think Ang helped proved my point, somewhat, about the fdcpa needing to be expanded to include the OC.

She called a hospital, that was saying she owed them money, yet they were not helpful? They must not have really needed the money, then. The really annoying thing is they sent the debt out to a CA, even though they had already been paid? Tell me that's not screwed up?

Oh Ron if u only knew the half of it with this hospital! And it's a hospital that my hubby goes to at least once a month! We're always having trouble with their billing system!!! I found out after the CA ordeal, that each time he goes in they give him a new acct number!! So we had over $300 in payments sent to them that were just sitting there for over 6 months! What a bookkeepers night mare they have! What gets me is if u recieve payments for exact amts, example one was for $17.49, but we had the wrong acct number on it as we pay all our bills electronically and since it was for the wrong acct it just sat in there instead of being credited to an invoice they had for the exact amt of $17.49... Now does that make ANY sense to anyone???
:shock:
Ahh well it's hard enough to explain this craziness in real life much less on here! And this is his heart hospital which is one of the best in the nation except for their accounting dept! :roll:
Ang

Ang..They should have a patient number on him and use it for billing also. My insurance goes by patient number and if the hospital, doctor's office etc. doesn't have a patient number they don't get their money...simple as that..and we do not have to pay anything until the insurance states what we are obligated to pay. We also have an insurance ID number that is used. Most insurance plans are good about handling complaints in billing.

Well Laura this has been a huge fight with this hospital for years now! We also thought he should have "ONE" patient number but NOPE, each time he goes in they give him a new number! :shock: We also, try to pay after the insurance part but being he's in there so often we always owe them something! :shock:
This has been a thorn in my side.
:(
Ang

Hmmm... :roll: I am sure you have contacted the person in charge of that department and probably anyone else that has to do with accounting. Have you spoke with the public relations director? This person usually is in constant contact with the hospital administrator and interested in the hospital's image. I would gather up all my bills..canceled checks etc and try to get an appointment with him...let him know how bad this system really is...maybe it could change something for the better?? :D Maybe threaten to take your story to the local newspaper or the TV station..they are always looking for a good story :!: Good Luck with this...hope you do better in the future.

There should be legislation introduced to hold some liability to the OC. If they (say for instance) sell a debt to a collection agency that has already been paid in order to increase their bottom line. There should be more accountability.

Well Laura i have thought about it but it would take SO much time and effort and i'm not sure i up for this task! As i said this is an ongoing thing as he's in the hospital at least once a month, sometimes more, for testing and such... But as i told teh accting dept, how in the world do they close their books each month???? If they had over $300 just for me can u imagine how many other peopel's money they have just sitting here?? Then it took them over 6 weeks to refund my money!
:roll:
Ang

There are defenses and causes of action in place for selling a debt already paid in most states.The absolute main problem consumers face is a severe lack of knowledge and the cost associated with dragging them to court.

Hey Cajun, you had mentioned previously about a statute regarding selling disputed debt. Could you research what statute contains that?

Thanks in advance.

1st page of this topic relates to collectors selling disputed debt.In my opinion it is a misrepresentation of the character of the debt and the seller is actionable under fdcpa laws.

Ang! Have you ever thought about using a different hospital? Or, since your husband needs to go regularly, would this be too difficult? I can certainly understand if he is receiving good medical care, and it's just the patient accounting that's screwed up, that you might not want to. Many times a screwed up accounting department doesn't indicate that a patient isn't receiving great care; it just means it's broke and needs fixing.

One thing to note, having worked in hospitals in the past, it's not uncommon to be assigned a new patient number each time you go to the hospital. It does get troublesome, though, when you have to go multiple times; it gives the cash applications department more chances to post the payment to the incorrect account. If they would just take a minute to research a troublesome payment the problem would be averted before it even gets started. Many times, though, they are just in a hurry to post the payments they don't take the time to look at the bigger picture and just post it somewhere to "take care of it."

Not excusing the mistake, just explaining one way the problem might have occured.

Also, if it's just a case of the payments being posted to the wrong patient numbers, it's not going to throw them out of balance when they are at month-end closing. They should, however, have someone reconciling the patient accounts every month and finding out why some accounts have credit balances and some are still showing outstanding balances. If the reconciler sees two accounts and one is overpaid by $17.49 while the other has an outstanding balance of $17.49 (and both accounts have your husband's name and information on it), then common sense should tell them to match up the balances. Or, unpost the overpayment and post it to the outstanding account. Or, they could always contact the payer (either your or insurance company) to validate what the $17.49 is for, and then match it up.

I'm sure that hospital has auditors come in once a year and I find it incomprehensible that they haven't seen how screwed up their A/R is and haven't questioned this. Unless they're only looking for large amounts and small balances don't really concern them. Like you said, though, if they're doing it to you they are doing it to others. So lots of little balances still add up to 1 larger balance.

I would definitely try talking to the hospital administrator about this; start straight at the top. Since talking to the accounting department is probably about as helpful as beating your head against a wall (it probably feels like that's what you're doing), then talk to the head honcho there. Tell him/her what a difficult and annoying time you're having with this.

Thanks Ron! Well his doctor which is one of the best in the state uses this hospital and the hospital itself is one of the best in the nation! So although their A/R dept is totally messed up their patient care is awesome!!!
I, like u, agree that how hard would it be to match a payment to a bill?? I mean his name is on the payment and if the acct # is wrong but he has another bill for the EXACT same amt wouldn't common sense tell u to post the payment to that bill?? When i called the hospital she pulled up his name and immediately saw 3 or 4 unpaid balances that his acct had the EXACT same payment made just sitting there in an unknown acct #, one that had already been paid long ago...
Ahh well now we just make sure to put the correct acct # each time! Just gets to be a hassle since it's all set up thru our bill pay electronically!
Thanks for all the helpful info Ron, it's truly appreciated,
Ang

On the subject of fdcpa reform, I found these comments to the Federal Trade Commission interesting.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/debtcollectionworkshop/index.shtm

Especially the comments from the National Consumer Law Center.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/debtcollectionworkshop/529233-00018.htm

fdcpa(THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTIONS PRACTICES ACT) REFORM IS A GREAT POST AND I THINK YOU ALWAYS IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING JCEMT.
FDCPA NEED A BIG REFORM AND THIS ACT NEED TO BE MORE PUNITIVE AGAINST COLLECTIONS AGENCIES THAT BUY DEBITS FOR PENNIES,CHARGE CONSUMERS FOR THE DEBIT AND SELL THE SAME DEBIT AGAIN TO OTHER COLLECTIONS AGENCIES.
THE WORST THING IS ABOUT THE LAW SUITS SO LITTLE TO CONSUMERS (1000,00.)
I THINK GOVERNMENT DID NOT WANT TO CHANGE ANY ARTICLE OF THIS LAW BECAUSE THEY NEED TO PROTECT THE BIG SHARKS.

Even if the big sharks are bleeding the America dry from the middle class down? What happens when you take out the middle of the pyramid?

Nice point JCEMT. Probably the same scenario as the subprie lenders, only it's taken a much longer period of time. Many years ago, the huge financial industries turned the country from being a manufacturing, industry based economy, to being a strictly consumer driven economy. Sure, this was out of the insanity of greed. Very soon, it will come crashing down around them. Look at the items kept out of the news: the British pound higher over the dollar than I can remember in about 25 years, the Euro at an alltime high, the Canadian dollar even of equal value to the American, and will inch above it...

That about sums it up. I wouldn't be surprised if we see another depression.

I don't think it'll get as far as another depression. Hope not, anyway. One thing that's certain, though, is that there are some hard times comin'.

I don't think we'll see another Depression, because for one thing, we have laws in place that weren't there in the 1930's--the FDIC to whit, which ensures that banks won't close like they did back then. We also have Social Security, which came into being with Roosevelt and for the present time IS solvent...but the biggest problem we are facing is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.