Bodog, and Joseph Mann and Creed

Is gambling legal in your state? Also with you using your wife's CC yet the debt generated by yourself it's kinda sketchy. Someone with more experience should be along shortly.

The first question is if you read the agreement in full, that could pose some issues. If this is an overseas operation, you could have inadvertantly agreed to giving them the right to open a separate account if the credit card company declines or finds in your favor in a dispute of charges. This is kind of dicey, as the electronic paper you signed could be found to be legitimate in a state court.


Please post more information, this all depends on the jurisdiction the site runs out of.

guest, listen to hockeyman's advice. He is very knowledgable in the field of law.

I dont think this will go to court, I am more worried about the credit report. They are a shady online gambling site who changes thier merchant code to a 3rd party "phhone/cable" to accept visa. Also odd how they started out for my wife, then said they will send both files for collection. Here is the emails below:
Dear Customer (Account: XXx-$1111.00),
If you wish to settle your account, contact us in 24 hours. If not, both of your files will be sent off to the firm and you can consider our correspondence as finished.


Regards,


Magnus
Accounts Department
===================================




--- Original Message ---
From:XXXXX
Received: 12/6/07 1:13:47 PM PST
To: Magnus - Bodog Collections Service
Subject: Re: XXX XXX - Please Call

Chris XXXX is not associated with my account or the charges in question.

Magnus - Bodog Collections Service wrote: Dear Customer (AccountXXXX-$1111.00),We have many descriptors, such as M-TLTD.com, that are used to protect your privacy. Telling your credit card company that the charges were fraudulent does not absolve you of your responsibility. You are still being held accountable for the debt.

We will pursue this issue until it is resolved. Understandably, it would not be difficult to hire a 3rd party collections firm on US soil to perform derogatory credit reporting.

Since it is evident that you have no intention to resolve this issue, you can expect a letter from the firm shortly. Both yourself and Chris XXXX will be referred.Magnus
Accounts Department
===================================



--- Original Message ---
From: XXX
Received: 12/6/07 12:22:20 PM PST
To: Magnus - Bodog Collections Service
Subject: Re: XXXXXXX - Please Call

I was only speculating as to what may have happened, as I said the charges from your "phone company" were fraudulent. Aditionally American law on Internet gambling is extremely strict: You cannot collect on a debt that was caused directly by gambling on a international Internet gambling site. If you go onto my credit report, I will simply and easily dispute and remove it as you have no basis.

Magnus - Bodog Collections Service wrote: Dear Customer (Account: XXXX-$1111.00),Please review our Player Agreement again. Our software and website do not record any of your personal information, that would understandably be a security risk. The CVV2 number has to be entered each time you make a deposit, which is not recorded anywhere except the back of your card. We suggest that you file a police report, and may we remind you that filing a false claim is an indictable offense.

As per Sec. 14 of our Player Agreement: "Player accepts all responsibility for any wager placed from Player's confidential account whether placed by Player or not, provided the correct Account Number and Password are received by Bodog. Specifically, the Player accepts all responsibility for any transactions placed on their Account by anyone else that received the confidential login information from the Player, whether voluntarily or otherwise."

Your account is being held here until December 13, 2007. If this matter is not resolved on or before this date, your file will be referred to 3rd party credit collections. This will affect your credit standing.
Magnus
Accounts Department
===================================


--- Original Message ---
From: XXX
Received: 12/6/07 11:57:56 AM PST
To: Magnus - Bodog Collections Service
Subject: Re: XXXXX - Please Call



Magnus,

Someone logged onto my account and used my card information. I did not authorize the charge or play. I had not played on your site for months, Bodog stored the personal information making it very easy for unauthorized use. If you send to collections I understand. I will dispute that as well with Equifax and Transunion. I have the documentation from my credit card company supporting my claim.

If you would like to discuss settlement arangements please let me know, thanks.

Magnus - Bodog Collections Service wrote:
Dear XXXXX (Account: XXX-$1111.00),Re: Outstanding Balance: $1111.00

After further review of your account with our Security Department, the transactions on the account do not show any activities consistent with fraud. It would be quite unlikely for someone to have set up an account under your name, from which only you would benefit.

Payouts are only made payable to the customer's their name and not through their financial institution.

The transaction history of your E-cash statement shows usage of a credit card, as the CVV2 number was provided, since April 8, 2007.

As per Sec. 14 of our Player Agreement: "Player accepts all responsibility for any wager placed from Player's confidential account whether placed by Player or not, provided the correct Account Number and Password are received by Bodog. Specifically, the Player accepts all responsibility for any transactions placed on their Account by anyone else that received the confidential login information from the Player, whether voluntarily or otherwise."

Your account is being held here until December 13, 2007. If this matter is not resolved on or before this date, your file will be referred to 3rd party credit collections.

Govern yourself accordingly.
Magnus
Accounts Department
===================================



--- Original Message ---
From: XXXX
Received: 12/6/07 11:22:43 AM PST
To: Magnus M
Subject: Re: XXXXX - Please Call

My credit card was charged fraudulently.

Magnus M wrote: Dear Danielle Galati (Account: 1743142-$1111.00),Your file has been transferred to my office for 3rd party credit reporting from our Security Department for rejected credit/debit card transaction(s).

You need to call our office immediately to avoid derogatory credit reporting to Equifax and Trans Union.

jmc will not ruin your wife's credit( PLEASE PROCEED WITH LAWSUIT IF THEY ACTUALLY DO )JMC only makes threats to do so--dispute--dispute--dispute--they can't provide proof! contact ftc with complaint--contact credit reporting agencies with notice of fraud against JMC and company they are representing who processed--tell them names and dollar amount you dispute and let them know you have disputed all charges and that company hasn't provided proper validation--!!!-- someone is trying to collect on charges reported other than what were actually made?--jmc won't provide any validation--they can't--they will most likely make up a name of some third party processor you owe the money to--also report them to the Ohio BBB and contact your state attorney general with a complaint--also JcMET I don't think it matters if gambling is legal in your state--because on-line internet gambling transactions are illegal here in U.S. and anyone who processes those transactions is the one who gets burned if people choose not to honor this debt. Problem is these companies break law processing transactions and don't give a hoot about validating anything--just turn it into companies like JMC when you don't pay--- to do the dirty work for them--9 months ago JMC contacted me with threats on internet gambling debts I did not make and were indeed actual fraud--told me I should just "fess up" and pay--nope I didn't wouldn't and won't-- would have been easy thing to do--just pay money to make them go away--but instead after seeing how they treated me--will spend my spare time trying to get someone in senate or congress to investigate and go after them --these tactic's they use are horrendous and the threats of ruining your credit are means for class action lawsuits if enough people will simply join hands and proceed--don't be afraid of these liars it is a waste of time --dispute with all mentioned suggestions above--move on and by all means stop gambling it is a no win situation because even if you win you will never know when to walk away!

Every time you go to that site and make a transaction, think of it as though you are stepping on their soil and buying something.

There is a firm misconception among most consumers about internet gambling. While these sites are illegal and these debts are uncollectable while the site is OPERATING ON UNITED STATES SOIL, the debts can magically come to life if the debts were incurred while OPERATING ON FOREIGN SOIL where this type of practice is legal. Why do you think that congress did its best to try and stamp out activity of the foreign sites?

Even when internet gambling, you are exposing yourself to potential liability. Don't even get me started on what venues you could be sued in.

They are not going to sue me for $1111, even the owner of Bodog, Calvin Ayres is not allowed to step foot in the US, he will be arrested. They just said they will turn it over to collections, from my early research will be JMC, I also sent them the following email:
One more thing,

Should I hear from a collector regarding this I will be sure to notify Visa and Mastercard of the fraudulent merchant coding that your site is using. As evidenced in prior email from you:

Dear Customer (Account:XXXXXX-$1111.00),We have many descriptors, such as M-TLTD.com, that are used to protect your privacy

I am sure they would welcome evidece that you are using incorrect phone/cable coding to accept illegal gambling charges.

Oh, I had already looked into the Ohio BBB, and guess what..JMC is no longer a member, they are rated unsatisfactory.

Well that's the part i don't get... how can they change the charge code and be legal?? U recieved NO phone or cable services from these people, right? Doesn't seem legit to me, of course, i'm NO atty.
Ang

Correct, I received no phone/cable services. They use a 3rd party to be able to accept credit card payments. For example, you sign up on Bodog to gamble, put in your credit card, get the cash in your Bodog account..then the charges show up as some other company Phone/Cable. They have to change the Merchant coding otherwise the charge would be declined. I do think this is illegal and I threatened to bring this to Visa/MC attention with all documentation. The main thing is I am worried about my Wife's credit report.

Welcome to the United States of America, where anyone can sue anyone; great country isn't it.

At this time, I will issue the letter I send to clients of whom I do not find them or their insureds as satisfactory to handle the cases.

At this time, I am discontinuing any and all relationship that may or may not have been implied over the court of communications. At no time have I provided you with any official legal advice, any and all communications have been investigative. I wish to notify you that with any and all actions involving a foreign entity, you should consult an attorney as soon as possible because, depending upon jurisdiction and treaties in enforcement, it is quite possible for that foreign entity to prevail in a proceeding in a foreign court and seek relief of enforcement in federal court, no matter what the activity initially sought was. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

hockeyman if there is a firm misconception about internet gambling-why was u.s unlawful internet gambling act passed?--why are companies breaking the law if they process--why did companies like Neteller belly-up?--the debts might magically come to life if you travel to the Island of Mann of wherever they are operating from--but from what I have seen--on-line internet gambling debts are illegal and uncollectable here in the U.S.--can you cite cases where people in U.S. actually received judgements and had to pay hockeyman? I have searched and searched and could not find any. All I have been able to find are complaints about this company

Quote:

I know this sight encourages all 2 pay- i think u should not pay

I am a compulsive gambler...I incurred charges on my credit card, bank accounts etc. However I never lied to cover up my the charges...I paid them and my family knew it. Guest...I am not saying you have a habit...just face up to what you did..pay it and don't keep it from your wife. Honesty is the best policy.

If it is a legitimate debt and it is managed/assigned to that CA I try to pay it. But at the same time don't roll over if they break the law, that is when the gauntlet gets thrown and I fight back.

Especially if you love your wife, please don't keep secrets. By keeping secrets or lying it could destroy or severely damage the trust in your relationship, and trust is the most important aspect that supports love.

I have given up on this one, he thinks he knows all.

Well guys it's pretty obvious that there is "more" to this than just owing the money! It's a gambling problem... until that is owned up to and dealt with nothing more will be resolved. Agree??
Ang

It's beginning to look that way..........

He says it only happened this one time due to a death in the family. I know when my husband died I did go on a binge...however when I faced up to my problem..I knew that was just an excuse. However...bottomline..I paid what I owed!

It is not a discussion of a gambling problem or not. My wife is aware of the charges.

I dont want it to get on her credit report..at this point I am waiting to see if I get contacted by a collection agency.

Based on responses I am pretty sure I can fight and dispute, the credit card company records are on my side and it was billed with illegal 3rd party merchant codes.

Thanks to all who replied and Merry Christmas!

pay everything you owe but not if it is something you forgot you owe follow posts of fyi on with Goldenblast page and then decide if u shud pay all like he sez haha hipocrite

where did fyi post disappear to? very strange indeed

Hanky should really chill out with his strange guest posting! :lol:

Guest...I really believe you have a reason to question the practices of gambling sites. They may be illegal...however does you credit card company back
knowing that you created these charges??? Merry Christmas to you too!!!

russell you slay me :P :P :P

I just found criminal implications that arose from this :wink:

Actually several, but the most lenient being theft by deception if they decide to go state. If the FBI shows up, tell them the truth and if you fib to them, don't you dare lie to the Federal Prosecutors.

There's always the Fraud word involved.

The minute you called and had the charges removed, you went from being merely civil to the realm of criminal.

Congratulations guest, you've upgraded the field of law you severely violated.

This isn't just debt, it's fraud, theft by deception, and many more. The third party code is actually very often messed up by even legit companies, but even if the person sustains credit charges in ANY way, shape or form then denies them to the credit card company and has those services removed; it's called THEFT BY DECEPTION on a state level and CREDIT CARD FRAUD on the federal level (by the way, this isn't just me, it's also a good friend of mine who happens to work in the US attorney's office in NJ, the status of this person is actually 2nd in command from Chris Christie, who is the head of the USAG's office in NJ).

Good luck guest.

Why would you put yourself or your wife's name in a situation where derogatory reporting could happen?

Entities offshore are not necessarily regulated in the U.S. along with the credit bureaus (the 3 majors are worldwide) which means reporting could happen offshore then end up on U.S reporting with no recourse by the consumer.

Face the problem by looking in the mirror ;)

hockey man I have gambled a few times in Las Vegas and Indian gambling sites..put real money in and didn't cash out very often !..but as a layperson I have casually followed this subject with some interest because of the unlawful internet gambling act I read about in newspaper and financial publications ...I still couldn't possibly see how that could prevent anyone from gambling if they choose to do so online and have followed the topic since then ..I have also had emails from some senator I had never even heard of about an online card games forum he was defending..of course I sent them to spam..I have to believe what you have stated because you know the law ..but what about all the cases I have read about that determine gambling debts to be unenforceable in a court of law..and can you cite cases where FBI has arrested any online gamblers? Also I am wondering if gambling is legal in NJ and that is the difference? I have only heard of FBI arresting several on line gambling processors who are now out of business..of course my interest in this subject up to this point has been a search and google find..can you give us link to criminal implications you found?..it would be very interesting because I have read about cases of people who admitted to gambling and had the charges reversed because they shouldn't have been processed..people should not gamble with money they do not have..we all know that..when I have gambled at legal locals I took a certain amount that I knew I was going to lose..also I never considered gambling on line because at least here in the US the gambling sites are regulated and have laws to follow..I always thought online wagers were a given loss and a waste of time..how do you know if anyone ever wins anything and what the payouts actually are from whatever country they are operating from? All a waste of money playing in this field of odds I always thought..but I was thinking guest should contact the FBI instead of trying to avoid them ..and waiting to be arrested..and inform them of someone trying to collect on internet gambling debts and name of company who violated US law by processing the transactions..wouldn't this be like a drug dealer trying to take you to court on a debt you didn't pay?..again I am just a layperson..and am offering comments from what I have read..not experienced..but please give link to criminal implications because it would probably change many attitudes and opinions here mine among them!

hockey man I think my basic question is this..if you go to sight #a "win millions of bucks.com"..gamble at this sight with whatever funds they process(even though it it is illegal for them to accept U.S. transactions)..then you get a bill which states you made purchases from unknown sight #b..clothes phone bills whatever..you fill out fraud report that you didn't purchase clothes phone bill whatever you dispute charges of clothes phone bill whatever....a collection company might contact you later saying you owe $ to another unknown company to you #C....you say you have never heard of them and don't owe a dime and ask them to validate...and the FBI will show up on your doorstep? Again can you explain to a layperson who doesn't have your education in law..how this is happening? thanks hockey I am humbly awaiting your response because I am feeling really stupid here to have assumed this shouldn't happen to anyone here in America..

hockey man I am still patiently waiting for your response..you see..you studied law in your education ..I studied psychology..doesn't matter.. however you boldly spoke of fraud regarding internet gambling..yet in my mind when people go to court there are 2 or more opposing lawyers there and one of them always ends up losing..so that tells me that lawyers aren't always right.. one of them always ends up wrong.. even if they aren't.. just the nature of the business you are involved in...they can cite cases but the opposing side will have just as many cases to refer to..doesn't take a college grad to realize this...once again question is this..I live in the United States of America..the country I live in has declared a law that internet gambling transactions are illegal..you state that I may have stepped onto their soil and they can now come after me in my country? No.. I didn't do this and my common sense tells me I never would....but for the people here who did...these companies surely can not collect on illegal transactions after they broke the law by allowing transactions and coding them wrongly in order to allow them..in a United States Court of Law..hockeyman ..please cite at least one case where this has happened..because I am not a lawyer! But I was born with a bit of common sense..and will not change my opinion on this subject until otherwise proved wrong!!!!! Where the heck did you go?

Please give him some time, he is very busy (he is a attorney and probably has a lot of work plus his personal life) when he gets time to come back on the board he'll get around to you. I respect him, he is a knowledgable attorney and always has given sound advice in the past. Also when you step into international commerce laws things get a little weird.

I understand Jcemt
heck the last time I talked to a lawyer I believe it cost me $175 and hour and that was years ago...
I shouldn't expect him to just stop what he is doing and answer anyone who has asked a question here..

from what I have read on his posts I also respect him and would really like some answers from him because what he stated contradicts what I have seen so far..

I will check back in a few weeks and in the meantime thanks Jcemt I have read many of your posts and respect your opinions just as well.

You know, now that I think about it I know what hockeyman was saying. In the USA it is illegal to own/operate a internet gambling website. That's if your on US soil. Now, it's completely legal outside the USA unless that country has laws that says otherwise. So I see where bodog or whatever it's called is legal probably in the country it exists in. Of course that company would be bound by business laws pertaining to the country of origin. I'm still not sure myself if a person visiting their site would be bound by their country's laws for those transactions. But then again I'm no expert on international commerce law.

But I bet the FTC might know.

sorry I'm getting too old..need some ginseng or something very good and herbal that really!!!! works perhaps....

anyhow when I first read this post I looked at guest comment of Joseph Mann and Creed about unsatisfactory rating with Ohio BBB....

from what I have seen.if you file a complaint with any BBB anywhere..the collection company in any city will respond to your complaint that they can't provide any information to BBB on matter because they are protecting you... the person who has reported them!

just another game they play....you will never get a response from this particular co from complaint to the Ohio BBB...but your complaint will be logged...a waste of time as far as you are concerned ...but 100 people from now?..might indeed help that particular victim....

That and BBB memberships are purchased, not earned. If you have a complaint about a collection agency you file it where it matters. The FTC and attorney general's office for your state and theirs.

GUEST: You incur a debt and hide behind the legalities of whether or not you deposited legally, simply put, you are a scammer, you agreed to pay someone and bailed when you didn't win! It's guys like you that ruin the industry in any country whether the country deems it legal or not!

Pay your bills and be a man about it, stop hiding behind whether or not the US deems it legal, better yet, don't pay your debt, let the lawyers get involved and pay a fine or serve time in the US for your so called non legal online gambling also the non legal use of your wife's card without her permission (I believe this is theft in the US) to gamble.. A criminal record is better then a bad credit score I'm certain! GO COLLECTIONS AGENCY!

Pay an illegal debt? I bet your the kind of person who would be like. "don't forget boys and girls to pay your terrorists, extortionists, and zoophiles..." :shock:

Seriously guest, whatever. You come on here and just flame people and we could care less what you have to say cause your just a little drama king/queen thats here to start shit. Go somewhere else troll.

P.S

Here is a site for you guest:
youfail.org
It's a real site, check it out.

Jcemt you said it better than I ever could possibly make an attempt at
but I would also like to challenge
the Guest2 (no debt) ...

provide some actual validation on charges..then we can talk about the man-up situation..

oops..there you go threatening jail time regarding illegal internet gambling transactions..and even on this sight you are violating fdcpa as usual..

I challenge you to stop hiding behind your unregulated industry that lets you treat people like you do..stop the threats because America is waking up here..
follow the law with respect and perhaps..you will be respected... just a thought

Let me ask you right off.. if this guy "GUEST" went to a gaming establishment (C@sino is banned apparently) in Atlantic City, used his wife's card and blow $1111.00, who should incur the charge? Obviously this guy made a debt on the card using his wife's card, had her CV2 number and did a deposit to what you now refer as an illegal site, (did he think it was illegal at the time, and if so why is he doing illegal transactions?) so yah, the guy knew fully well what he was doing, incurring a debt and making a deal with something now he says is illegal (on his wife's card, but didn't think it was illegal when he first used the site). So it's okay to play the chargeback card and make a business (operating legally somewhere) lose funds or cease any opertunity to collect when he made the deal?

If this be the case, it's a wonder the US is in debt.. US Citizens can use their credit cards all over, charge back if they are unsatisfied and have businesses eat the cost.

Good luck to the US in 2008.

And yes, as per the "Unregulated" industry, I hope the US does regulate it, so guys like this can do it all legally and not chargeback for debts they obviously make. If you can't pay your bills, you should be spending money on someone elses credit card, plain and simple!

GO AWAY TROLL & QUIT TRYING TO FLAME OUR BOARD!!!

Drama Queen, there I said it.
It's true to, who else starts this kinda shit whom has no personal interest at stake

People don't respond to them, it trys to flame because he/she is a drama queen. They have to make themselves the center of attention, through negative means usually as this one is a Troll Queen. They post, ignore them. It will get worse but in the long run when they have tried their most inflammatory tactics to no avail (kinda like a infants temper tantrum) they will eventually go away.

Easy, CB. Don't let the troll get to ya, or he wins. He's probably just shillin' for some CA, for a quarter per post.

For my part, if I wanted his opinion, I'd damn well give it to him. I suspect that I'm not the only one on here that feels that way, either.

Oh I wasn't mad yet! :lol: :lol:

okay not trying to keep encouraging the wounded troll
but my last perspective on subject here is a reality check I think

troll talks about $1111.00 that someone owes and needs to pay

what exact service did this other guest who spent that money receive?..a game of chance?..yes a game

I play Pogo every now and then same type of games of chance where the wheels spin and pretty pictures are on screen and it probably costs what ..nothing? for site to let me play when I decide to visit?

So when people decide not to pay these illegal on line gambling debts..it's not like the on line gambling sites actually lost anything...uhm did they provide granite counter tops? or a T.V.? or a labor force? the list goes on and on....

now a troll response would be "If you won..you wouldn't mind cashing out on this illegal transaction"
but the fact is that no one ends up winning here in the long run and that is why the U.S. made these transactions illegal..

if guest doesn't pay the $1111.00 no one is really
out anything..just a few pretty pictures that rolled across the monitor and amounted to nothing..

now if someone on sight can actually show me cases of people in jail or prosecuted for these type of transactions..I will change my tune..but until then
LA LA LA LA LA merrily I sing my song ... talk to the hand that doesn't feed ya troll!!!!!!

The reason that our country (among others) have outlawed internet gambling: If you went to Vegas and you played the slots, you might win a little something (just how the machine works) you play roulet*te, you might get lucky depending on what the wheel does, same with cards and dice. But in a virtual model, if they set it up right, they are using modulus mathematical operation which does not truly produce random results in the first place. Or it can be rigged, so nobody wins. If you win then it's because they let you win and the rest of the time they could make it so they bleed you dry. It's all computer code, really removes the randomness from the game of chance. To my point: There is no way for United States officials or any other government for that matter, to regulate programming code. That is why it's illegal here in the USA.