What proof should I get from Portfolio Recovery for proper validation?

???? 809. Validation of debts
(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a
consumer in connection with the collection of any debt,
a debt collector shall, unless the following information is
contained in the initial communication or the consumer has
paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing????????
(1) the amount of the debt;
(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days
after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the
debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed
to be valid by the debt collector;
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector
in writing within the thirty-day period that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector
will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of
a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such
verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer
by the debt collector; and
(5) a statement that, upon the consumer????????s written request
within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will
provide the consumer with the name and address of the
original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within
the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original credior any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector
obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt
collector. Collection activities and communications that
do not otherwise violate this title may continue during
the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the
consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the
debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original creditor.
Any collection activities and communication during the
30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with
the disclosure of the consumer????????s right to dispute the debt or
request the name and address of the original creditor.
(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt
under this section may not be construed by any court as an
admission of liability by the consumer.
(d) A communication in the form of a formal pleading in a
civil action shall not be treated as an initial communication
for purposes of subsection (a).
(e) The sending or delivery of any form or notice which
does not relate to the collection of a debt and is expressly
required by the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, title V of
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or any provision of Federal or
State law relating to notice of data security breach or privacy,
or any regulation prescribed under any such provision
of law, shall not be treated as an initial communication in
connection with debt collection for purposes of this section


That is straight from the Federal Trade Commission

also here is a letter from Division of Credit Practices Attorney John F. Lefevre

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm

They lied to you, big time.

That case was heard in Florida, in 1995. The basic idea, so you know, is that the case involved a dispute over condo fees. The court found that condominium fees are not consumer debt, and therefore have to be treated differently. Also, if memory serves right, that case involved the original creditor, whereas you are being told this crap by a third party debt collector. The entire fdcpa doesnt apply to original creditors in any way--it is for third party collectors only.

Further, you requested VALIDATION. They are referring to VERIFICATION. These are two completely different things. Verification is what a CA does when the credit bureau tells them that you disputed the debt entry on your credit report, all they need to do is verify your name and address with the CB--that is "verification". But you asked for "validation", which under the FDCPA is quite different.

They sent you this horrible attempt at an excuse in writing??? Twice?? WOW, you have all you need to sue them right now if they did.

Here's what I would do, seriously. I would get a copy of the validation letter you sent them, to show the court exactly what you asked for. I would then take the letters that they sent you both times, and I would go on naca.net and look for a lawyer in your area. Many of those lawyers offer a free initial consultation to see if you have a legit case or not. I feel that you have a very good case. Might I ask, how much is the debt they are claiming you owe?

I am guessing here that this is how things happened--

1--they contacted you trying to collect the debt
2--you sent a DV request
3--they sent the first "verification" BS letter in reply
4--they kept trying to collect the debt
5--you asked a second time for DV
6--they responded the second time with the same nonsense
7--they still contact you trying to collect the debt

Is this accurate? If so, you have them on a couple things...

1--refusal to provide validation of the debt as required by section 809 of the FDCPA
2--continued collection effort despite refusal to provide the requested DV, section 809(b) of the FDCPA

If they reported this debt to your credit reports, you will most likely find more violations. We can help you put all of that together as well, just let me know if I can help with anything at all

Jon

I am aware of that section, but if they will not adhere to it what am I left to do. Another letter. What type?

Possibly a intent of civil action letter if they want to conduct business like that.

do as skydiver advises,go to naca.net.find a
lawyer,you sent dv letters twice.what good
will a third one do?go after them.

Paul's got it right-sending a third letter will most likely be pointless because they are trying to claim they are in the right. The funny thing is that they know they arent, but this is how they have chosen to play this one out.

So, thats why I suggested the attorney. Now, if you know the law well enough yourself, thats one thing, but most people do not, and so an attorney would be worth your while. Especially since you get to add lawyers fees and court costs to the amount youre suing for. Me personally, in a case like this, I am not afraid to represent myself, but I went to school for criminal justice and I know my way through the legalese fairly well. I wouldnt recommend that the average person represent themselves like that unless they have no choice.

skydiver,
It has played out exactly as you outlined. I was hoping there was some other way to do this than hiring a lawyer. But I guess I have explored every other option.

Jordan--if you would like help in putting everything together, I would be glad to help out. Just let me know

This is interesting to know, I may be facing this same dilemma. :?

talk to me shazzers, what have ya got?

I have zero as of date, I sent out my second validation letter to the the same CA and still no response. My gut feeling is I will most likely receive the same response as I did with the first validation letter, another bill demanding payment.

That's great, how many CA's do you know of that put their fdcpa violations in writing for you?

Folks, what we need to do is step it up with CA's like these. There is only one reason why they continue to put people in the position of having to request multiple DV's all without success--its because we let them get away with it!

Please dont take this as rude, but what we need to do is hold them to the law, each and every time. The industry got the way it is because there never were any consequences for the CAs that pulled this kind of crap. Now, the fdcpa allows us to hand them consequences, and most people who have a good case dont go through with the effort to take them to task over it.

Here's my deal....I request DV once. If you dont send it, I will sometimes request it a second time. If you still dont send it, then you need to be dragged in front of a judge and have complaints filed against you with the AG's office, the FTC, or whoever else would be appropriate for the offenses youve committed. We need to stop letting them off the hook!

Shazzers, I gather that you have all the documentation you need for this, am I right? You have the copy of the DV requests, the receipt cards from the certified letters, and their letters demanding payment, right? How about we put some money in your pocket, what do ya say? I see $2000 right now, before getting any other details from you about this deal.

Right here and now, I am putting this out there. I will help ANYONE who has a legit case like this, if you wish to sue them and cannot get a lawyer. Now, I am not a lawyer, and in many cases I will strongly recommend getting one, but if someone wishes to pursue a case and cannot get an attorney, I will help you look up all the case law you will need, all the statutes you need, and I will help you put it all together. Naturally, I will not be taking money for this. All that I ask are a couple of basic things---

1--that you stay the course--follow through to the end.

2--that you be completely honest with me about the info you provide....and keep this in mind--suing on an FDCPA violation has no connection at all to whether or not the debt is yours, or whether or not you claim its yours.

3--that you have some patience along the way. I am offering this to help people and I wont take a penny in the process, but you will need to understand that I am a husband and father of three. I will not spend every waking moment of my life on a case, but then again if you have a case that huge, you wont have any problem getting a lawyer, trust me!

To show that this isnt just a bunch of well-wishing, not too long back someone posted in here about a CA that had falsely stated they got a judgment against him on an old debt. Then they were trying to collect on a second debt from him as well. He was prepared to offer a settlement to pay off the second debt. Then he posted in here.....and a couple of us got involved with helping him out. Rather than have to pay off a debt, in the end both debts were wiped clean and then they paid him $2500 plus court costs for their violations. This IS real, people. And its time we use the law to protect ourselves the way it was intended. Why do you think there are still so many FDCPA violations every day? Because most of those CAs know they wont ever have to pay any penalties because the consumer either doesnt know the law or doesnt bother to act on it. Lets change that. And we can keep a running total of how much in penalties we force them to cough up as they continue to break the law.

Who's game? This starts right now. And I will kick it off, because we are filing a complaint against a CA for no less than 9 independent violations of the FDCPA in a week. Members, feel free to PM me if you wish to keep your case quiet, I will respect the provacy of all that ask for it. Guests, if you are in this position, feel free to post a thread here to me(skydivr7673) or join the forums(its free) and contact me that way.

whadaya say?

That is one hell of a decent thing to offer. I commend you.

skydiver,
I received another letter fron portfolio recovery associates yesterday. This one states "I am writing in response to your recent dispute. However, since you have submitted a dispute that is substantially the same as a dispute previously submitted by you and we have already responded to this dispute, then as per the FCRA, 15 uscs SS1681s-2(a)(8)(f)(ii), we are notifying you that such dispute is frivolous or irrelevant.
If we continue to receive subsequent correspondence from you regarding a dispute that has already been resolved, we will consider your inquiry answered. No further replies will be forthcoming unless you provide the information we need to assist you. Our office considers this matter closed:

Then at the bottom of the letter they write this is a letter from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.

All I did was ask for a DV. They are saying that is frivolous and irrelevant. WHAT!!!!
This is turning into a nightmare.

They are pretty much ignoring the fdcpa, I'd say it's time to explore the possibility of civil action.

hi guest--

here's what they did. They cited the FCRA, which is all about disputing whats on your credit report. You requested debt validation, not verification of whats on your credit report, am I right? They are trying to weasel their way out of the need to validate the debt.

I would possibly send them one more letter, certified mail. In that letter, I would thank them for their responses, and then I would tell them that they just violated the fdcpa by refusing to validate the debt. I would then quote section 809 of the FDCPA in the letter, word for word, and explain to them that they are not even talking about the same thing you are. I would say that they cited the FCRA wrongly because what they cited deals 100% with disputing an entry on a credit report, and doesnt have anything at all to do with debt validation pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

I would then tell them that, due to their repeated refusal to provide validation which is required under FDCPA, you will have no choice but to file suit for their violations of federal law. They cited the wrong law for your request, and I would tell them that.

Or, you could just file a suit, and honestly, at this point, I dont feel that you will get validation of the debt. The letter would only serve to inform these idiots that you arent falling for their illegal tactics and refusal to follow the actual law that applies. If you like, you can look on naca.net and search for an attorney in your area, but I am also willing to help you put everything together that you will need if you want to do this yourself. Have they even provided a dollar amount of this supposed debt??

I got the same quote about validation from a ca legal servicing llp. However, they used a different case as their point -- but also I believe a real estate debt. Mine is a credit card debt and I asked a second time for validaiton and they sent me the same thing and now they have sued me.

I would serve them with validation request during discovery. Then if they fail to provide proper validation request it to be dismissed. I would suggest that you seek legal council (you can start with naca.net for attorney shopping) if you want to go it pro se (which I don't recommend) you should consult your local legal library for rules of civil procedure.

What constitutions a response to my validation request?

I sent in my letter, they got it and the calls stopped for about 20 days or so, now they are calling again (and more than once a day), using a random number generator for caller ID, using a recording saying that they have an urgent matter and that I need to stop ignoring them. They do not say whom they are, other than a first name, and that I need to call them within 48 hours or they will make a recommendation to their client. Of course, this is in a very demanding tone.

I did receive another letter from them but it was the same as the first with an added statement that a payment plan as been approved as long as I give them access to my checking account or send them 6 pre-dated checks. Now, this letter as did the first, says that their client is Capital One, had an account number (not my card number), and an amount due.

I believe this to be my debt, and I am willing to make payments, 1 money order or cashiers check at a time, I just want to make sure they are the ones I need to be sending the payment to.

Not sure if they replied or not?