Dem debates

I am not a big Michael Moore fan, but watch the movie Sicko. Talks about domestic healthcare and universal healthcare, including in the UK, where I have lived.

Some of the stories about the US healthcare will make you cry....including a little girl who died because Kaiser wouldnt cover her emgergency respiratory care at an ER in another hospital because her mother didnt call to have it approved ahead of time.

...but not to go off the original I unfortunately did not see the debates.

What did you think of the health care system in the UK when you lived there?

Excellent....When I lived in Panama, they also have universal and it was great.

Hmm..sounds like I need to do more personal research on all this. :)

When I moved to the US, and acquired medical insurance via my job, major culture shock for me that I couldnt walk into a clinic and get a prescription without red tape.

There are pros and cons to both private and universal.
If you see Sicko, they even go to Cuba on a boat with post 9/11 firefighters and heros that couldnt get all of their ailments covered here in the US. People that ran into the buildings to help.

Not to hijack this thread, but health care is a real hot button issue for me right now! For obvious reasons. I've been without medical insurance for well over a year now.

I really think we all have some tough choices to make this election year, though. I do want to remind everyone that you do need to get out and vote! Not telling you who to vote for, just to get out and vote!

And please, vote the issues. Not for who has the sleaziest campaign add slamming their opponent. Those really gripe my behind! If they presented their stances properly and clearly, they wouldn't need to trash their opponents in order to, hopefully, get more votes.

ron you are on it.get out and vote,sadly i have been keeping up with both parties.it seems that there is a lot of posturing.that is how it goes unfortunatley,i hope no matter who succeeds W,will do right for this great country of ours.

Keep your eyes open and watch the results of the Ohio and Texas primaries today! I live here in Oregon, so I don't think my vote has much worth, but it's interesting to watch everyone else get the treatment from all of the candidates.

Swedish, EVERY vote has worth!! Ask President Gore!! :D
I have voted in every election I could from the time I was 18 and I am waaaay older than that now, lol, and everytime I cast my ballot, I am reminded of the women who died to give me this right. This is part of the rent we pay as Americans, to vote and to be up on the issues.
And I do see Healthcare as one of the big issues of this campaign. As someone who works in the business, I think we have one of the best systems in the world, but our access is among the poorest in the freeworld. That's a tragedy.
What we need is a candidate with a viable plan for health care for all Americans and a plan to END PAYDAY LOANS!!!

And speaking of Payday Loans, remember one thing: Obama is calling for a cap of 36 percent interest on them, while Clinton doesn't have a position. This is one reason while I will be voting for Obama in November.

hopefully, voting for Obama in November won't be an option.

i didn't realize that about Obama. I don't think I have ever heard any of the candidates talk about their position on payday loans. That's good to hear that Obama has a platform on it. Hey...even after the voting last night, he's still ahead in delegates. Maybe Oregon will matter this time!

i like obama as well,this coming from a republican who voted republican the last 4 elections.i just want a candidate who doesn't engage in games.

instead a candidate who talks and talks and says nothing. Hot air and celebrity does not equal a leader, nor does it stop a recession, end a war or create jobs. Obama is charasmatic, but does he have what it takes....

the universal health care program should be on every candidate agenda as far as I am concerned..illegal immigrants and non-working welfare recipients have better health care than many low wage earners here in our country..and something needs to be done about this...
I have voted in several presidential elections....the debate that will forever stick in my mind until they lay me in my grave will be the one where independent super billionaire Ross Perot stated that if the U.S. opened up trade agreement with then Mexico (China was not even in the picture) that there would be a huge sucking sound of jobs leaving the U.S. and Americans would be terribly affected from a free trade agreement...and hello..here we are today!N.A.F.T.A. left our U.S.A. workers in peril!!!!!
I personally think the people who control this country are the lobbyists representing big business and corporations...and until the lobbyists from big business are outlawed (in D.C.)....that there is no credibility in our system..the senate and congress run our country based on what the lobbyists push them into thinking..am I wrong to believe this? because I really hope I am! (For my children and grandchildren's sake)

Socks, that was great. But while it's true that lobbyists do control Congress, I think that we need to ask ourselves why this is so--and I think it's so, because of the money they represent. And while we're talking of lobbyists, let's go into the ones for the PDL companies. Would be interesting to have them exposed.

It would, indeed.

I've done what I can. I vote every time, as do my wife and grown children. I've also identified the issues that are most important to me, and written/spoken to our local/state candidates about them. I also declined the opportunity to be the technical advisor to a state representative's re-election campaign, because she thinks mandatory helmet laws are a good idea.

This is great! I'm so glad to see people having a discussion of our political system. Looks like Obama won Mississippi yesterday. And now Ferraro said stupid stuff about the race issue. If she's supporting Hillary and Hillary doesn't want this to be about gender or race, then she needs to be really concerned about what her high profile supporters say about her opponent. They ultimately are a reflection of her and her views. But, I do agree with how lobbyists are taking over our country's political process. I'm sure it's been longer, but in the 80's, big business was king. now we get that trickle down economics that Regan was always talking about. Some of it also has to do with the Clinton years. And this administration, too, of course. But, it goes back much farther than that. Also, I've been wondering why no news organization has brought up those pardons that Slick Willy did for Hillary's kin when he was about to leave office. Also, no word on the Whitewater scandal when she wouldn't produce docs for congress to review about their property deal in Arkansas with their buddies. Hmm..... :shock:

I just hope this elecion runs smoother than some previous ones did....

I sprayed Dr. Pepper on my keyboard, UncleWulf! That is too funny! Too bad that wasn't the actual ballot used back in 2000. The election would have been a heck of a lot smoother!

I was just complaining to a friend today about how Florida can't seem to get any type of election correct. Now there's a big controversy over the primary election being held too early and the delegate votes not counting at the Democratic National Convention. They want to hold another primary election at the taxpayers expense!

WTF is wrong with the people here?!? Do we have too many retirees? I honestly don't get it.

Having been born, and mostly raised, here in Florida I'm pretty embarrassed at times. The morning radio show I used to listen to, out of Tampa, has referred to Florida as "The FreakShow State", as opposed to "The SunShine State."

Pretty appropriate if you ask me.

That ain't what I heard......

You guys have to stop!!! Now I'm spitting out my Arizona Iced Tea!! Hey, I don't care whether they have a do-over or not, I just don't want to pay for it!

Hey!..... It could've been worse, KS.
























Any questions?

OMG! You're killing me UncleWulf!

As a Star Wars fan, I do appreciate the humor of that picture!

Here's my thing.

I'm a registered Democrat; however, I'm actually thinking of going republican this year. I do like McCain and some of the things he stands for and I do vote the issues and not just the party line. I'm still on the fence, though there's still a little time to make up my mind.

Besides.

Have you seen his wife?!? Man, it would be great to have a really hot first lady for a change!!! Might make up for those Horrific Barbara Bush years.

Just kidding.

She is hot, though.

Quote:

I'm usually registered Republican, too, but I think it's time for a change. I like McCain, but I'm not sure where he stands on a lot of stuff. I need to do more research. We get so bombarded with all of the Democrat coverage...it's like the media has decided for us that the next president will be democrat. Well...it looks like I was right...Hillary has removed Ferraro from her adviser staff. Anyway, as long as the next president has a great group of advisers, things should be fine. How about this for a running mate for McCain....Colin Powell? I know he resign from under Bush, but he's a smart guy and might be just the thing to unite the party...get those more conservative votes. I don't think Rice would be a good running mate. She is way too much a product of Bush. But, the cabinet choices do matter a lot to me. If the president may not be too strong in one area, like foreign relations, if he/she has a good adviser in that area, they will hopefully be bright enough to listen and learn from them.

I guess i am alittle confused on the FL delegate issue. Why can't they just count them and be done with the whole thing. Because they move the FL primary date disqualifies the delegates for the convention? Not making sense to me but am not that involved with the technical side of all of this. Can the florida residents explain the ins and outs of this issue?

thanks,

love the darth hillary wulf :lol: :lol: ,but seriously,if she somehow wins the dem nod i will vote mcain in a heartbeat.if obama wins,i will have a tough decision to make.

Whiterock73,

Here's how I understand it. The primaries in Florida occurred too early, at least according to the Democratic National Committee. The date the primary was supposed to occur, according to the DNC, was after Feb. 5th. Florida had it's primary election on Jan. 29th. Because they didn't follow the DNC rules, Florida is being stripped of all it's delegates at the national convention. Meaning Florida will have no say in who our next Democratic Presidential nominee will be.

In a nutshell, Florida screwed up by holding the primaries too early. Because of this, the Florida primaries pretty much don't count at all in the nomination of a Democrat Presidential candidate.

What's griping my behind about all this, is now there is a push to hold another primary here in Florida, at the tax-payers expense. The DNC says they will not pay for this re-do of the primary, so if we want to have one then we have to pay for it.

I'm also steamed because it doesn't seem fair to the candidates that were on the ballot back in January, but have since dropped out of the race.

My mother told me this morning they said on the news that this re-do is now supposed to happen; however, it's going to be done by mail-in ballot. Please! If we can't get a "walk in" election right, can you imagine what a disaster a mail-in election would be? I haven't watched the news yet today, so I don't know if that's correct or not.

As far as I'm concerned we screwed up and we should just face the consequences and quit whining and moaning about it. Maybe if more Florida residents kept tabs of what's going on with our government, and hold our elected officials accountable for their screw ups, the we might finally get an election right!

thanks for filling me in Ron..I agree with you about the screw up and that FL will just have to live with what they did. My question is this.. They are having all this discussion about a re-do (don't think mail in will work) i live in oregon and we have had mail in for a # of years and it works here, but since FL has never done it before i would venture to say that a mail in would be a total disaster. Getting back to what i wanted to ask is this.. instead of going thru all the hassal of re-do why not just give them the delegates and be done with it all? Why did they change the date in the first place?

Quote:

Not hearing much from Ralph Nadar...Yet.

Whiterock73

I did a lot of searching on the internet and was unable to find a logical reason why the dates for the primaries were changed by the DNC. I even asked my brother, who works for the supervisor of elections, and he didn't know of any reason why the dates were changed either. Managed to get into an argument with him over McCain going into office, though. He's a VERY liberal Democrat, while I'm a VERY conservative Democrat, so we but heads on the issues from time to time.

I generally try to avoid political discussions with him all around. It usually gets messy.

The only thing I could find was this quote on the internet:

"Party rules say states cannot hold their primary contests before Feb. 5, except for Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29. Florida ignored that calendar and passed a law setting its date for Jan. 29"

It also said that Florida was informed as far back as August of 2007 that the delegate votes would not count for this reason. So it's not as if they did not have plenty of time to change the election dates. If they can rush legislation through to keep a brain dead woman alive (Terry Schiavo's case a few years back), they could have rushed something through to change the primary dates.

I do find it interesting to note, however, the Republicans were the ones that forced the change of the primary dates here in Florida. Pretty crafty move on their part, if you ask me.

And Morningstar, you are oh so right! You have to take the good with the bad when it comes to voting. It really does just boil down, to me at least, to a case of the lesser of two evils. Might be eisier to just go into the voting booth, close your eyes, and go "eenie, meenie, minie, moe!" while making your choices.

Oops, maybe not. I think that is some of what happened back in the 2000 elections.

I say just split the delegates down the middle (if there is an even amount..if not cut the odd guy in half) divide them up and be done with it. Will save big $$$ and alot of headache in the end...

- on another note..have you guys been reading about the subprime mess..interesting article in Newsweek about a guy that was a subprime lender, back before everything got out of control.

[quote=UnemployedRon]As far as I'm concerned we screwed up and we should just face the consequences and quit whining and moaning about it.[/quote]

There's a novel idea! We're gonna make a Libertarian outta you yet.



[quote=UnemployedRon]Maybe if more Florida residents kept tabs of what's going on with our government, and hold our elected officials accountable for their screw ups, the we might finally get an election right![/quote]



Don't hold yer breath, Ron. Blue ain't your color.

My take on it is that it's fine for a do-over, but I think the Florida Democratic Committee should pick up all of the costs. As Ron said, they knew last August that this was going to happen and chose to do it anyway, so I think that's fair.

whiterock..speaking of Ralph Nadar..he has been such a total consumer advocate..for years fighting the wrong doings of business..and protecting the average consumer...he could have never received the financial backing and support to win anything...
I myself was swinging for Huckabee because I didn't care about any of his other issues except for his willing to buck the system in place ...plan to abolish the I.R.S....
even though I normally vote Dem..I tend to swing towards McCain...because he is the strongest package..however..am very concerned that McCain would simply be a repeat of the Bush years...
I don't trust Hillary...not sure where I stand on Obama as being the person who can step up to the plate and am still undecided...
yet will make up my mind election day and hope the leader we choose indeed has the position to lead instead of follow advisers

Here in Oregon, we've been doing the mail in ballot for as long as I can remember. But, my first election was back in NC, where I grew up and went to college. It was the senate vote of Jesse Helms vs Harvey Ghant. Jesse Helms, as you all know, is that ultra conservative republican that used to be head of the national endowments for the arts. He's dead now, but at the time, he was a real lightning rod for issues. Ghant was a black democrat. In NC, in the bigger cities, everything is pretty good when it comes to race relations, but in the small backwoods towns and in the mountains, it's still an issue. I was going to school in the mountains at Appalachian State, so lets just say Ghant was not a front runner with the locals. Well, I voted for Ghant, who lost, but it sparked my political interest in the whole system. My brother and I keep up with all of this stuff...he's very into the constitution and how it's been beaten up so much with the Bush administration. I think...from past experience and watching the news...that Florida should buck up and pay to have another election. Especially since they KNEW they would be breaking the rules and had been warned by the DNC. Michigan would have to have another complete election since Obama's name was not even ON the ballot when they had theirs. Hillary was the only Dem candidate that chose to put her name on the ballot, since the candidates knew that primary was not going to count. I'm just glad that Oregon may matter in this primary. We usually are an afterthought for the candidates. "where's Oregon? Oh...it's that state between CA and WA." BTW Wulf...LOVE the Zappa quote.

I agree swedish girl..Oregon is usually a non event by the time we have our primary...Will be interesting this year.

Ron - looks like Fl is going to have a "re-do" "mostly by mail" wonder how that will work...and who is going to pay? Updates?

Yeah, that's what I hear too; mail in re-do. Makes my blood pressure go up thinking about it.

I would like to think it would all go fine; however, I really don't think it will. Will probably be an even bigger mess than the original problem of holding our primaries too early and our delegates not counting. I'm thinking our delegates are still not going to count.

I'm optimistically, pessimistic about this (is that possible?) and I'm just going to have to take a "wait and see" attitude.

We here in oregon have had mail in voting for a number of years... and pretty much have it down to a science...Hopefully FL will make a call to Oregon to see what to do to make it run smoothly...But another question is Who is going to pay for it? Won't be cheap anyway you look at it..