Am I being lied to? Help!
Date: Wed, 03/26/2008 - 16:23
As a note, I'm in Missouri.
I got sued in January by Calvary Investments for an old Discover debt. They're saying I made a payment in February of 2003 - which would mean they filed right before the SOL would have been up.
However, I never made that payment. I brought copies of my bank statement from Feb 2003 (and Jan and March) to the first hearing (a month ago) and told the lawyer (who was very nice, considering he was suing me) that I never made the payment and the SOL was up.
He said he'd contact the collection agency and that I should call a few days before the next court date and find out if they'd heard anything.
The court date should be tomorrow and so I called Monday - they were closed. I called Tuesday and left a message with the woman he'd told me to call. She didn't call me back so I called again today.
I was at home, about 5:30pm, when my ground line rang. I never use it, so I didn't pick it up. I was making dinner, though, and figured I'd check who it was. What do you know? It was the law firm.
I called her right back on my cell (which was the number I'd left for her - not sure why she called the ground line).
She seemed to have no idea what I was talking about, but told me that the SOL was not expired till 2013 - that it was 10 years in Missouri.
Now my understanding is that all Credit Cards are "open accounts" - and the SOL for those in Missouri is 5 years, not 10.
When I finally explained to her that the issue was a payment I hadn't made but they said I did, she said she'd try to get a debt payment verification (which they were supposed to get a month ago!) and that it would be continued till next month.
So now I've taken a vacation day from work tomorrow to go to court when I don't have to go (my boss probably won't care if I go in anyway), but I'm pretty sure they're lying to me about the SOL. If they are, doesn't that nullify the attempt to collect the debt, even if it *was* valid?
Plus, I'm worried that if I don't go, they'll call for default even if they said they'll continue it. If they're lying once, they might lie again.
What should I do from here?
As long as you have a vacation day, be on the safe side and go.
As long as you have a vacation day, be on the safe side and go. Don't give them a chance to get a default judgement.
I did some research and here's what I found: http://www.moga.
I did some research and here's what I found:
http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/C500-599/5160000120.HTM
That says that open-ended accounts are 5 years.
According to the US Code covering Truth in Lending, all CC debt is open-ended:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00001602----000-.html
Sooo they lied to me.
I am going to go tomorrow. I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them. Grrrrr.
Off hand, I'd say that you are indeed being lied to. Wonder if y
Off hand, I'd say that you are indeed being lied to. Wonder if you could get a judgement against them, this time around. They were asked to validate a month ago. (sarcasm) Wonder why they didn't?... (/sarcasm)
The woman from the law firm was very snarky on the phone. I was
The woman from the law firm was very snarky on the phone. I was nice, but as professional as I could be as I explained in my "nice" voice that there was no way the payment was made.
She said something like "bank statements don't mean anything, because people can pay by cashier's check or money order."
I said I realized that, but that I knew I hadn't. She got sort of huffy about it, so I finally said sweetly, "Well, the burden of proof isn't really on me. I know people can pay by money order and the like, but I also know I didn't."
But before this all happened, she mentioned how the debt didn't expire till 2013 - which is a total lie.
I am tempted to make a legal fuss about this. I don't even really want the money - I just want them to not lie to people who don't have the resources to look up this information.
If you had been paying by check for any length of time, that mig
If you had been paying by check for any length of time, that might could be considered a pattern of behavior, and add weight to your argument. Wonder if there's any way to prove how a payment was made?...
AS to the SOL lie, that just chaps my ass. Raise a fuss about it for me if not for yourself, OK? And if you don't want the money, you can send that to me.
Question, are you recording calls? You should be. Here's a cite to your law on that: rcfp.org/taping/states/missouri.html
I was probably paying over the phone by check, yes. I don't hav
I was probably paying over the phone by check, yes. I don't have any idea how I could get record of that. I guess I could get my bank statements?
I haven't been recording, no - I wouldn't even know how.
If I did end up with money, I'd probably donate it to one of the legal help places around here, that help people get their social security and stuff when the government fights them on it.
Sorry if I came off as flippant. I've been a bit distracted, but
Sorry if I came off as flippant. I've been a bit distracted, but was trying to help out. Lemme try again...
On how you'd been paying this thing, historically: Try your old statements and/or check registers. Failing that, your bank can very likely find documentation on those payments for you. Most banks keep a minimum of seven years of old records.
On wondering if there's a way to prove how a payment was made: Sorry, I was more thinking with my fingers there, hoping that some of the other community members might have some input. We have several members here who work in the financial industry.
On recording calls: It's not strictly necessary, but it'd be a great piece of evidence if you can catch them in a violation. As to the how of it... Radio Shack sells a number of solutions for recording telephone calls, ranging in price from about five bucks to $100+. Failing that, you can use a regular tape or digital recorder with no special attachments if you have a speakerphone. Just put the mic of your recorder near the speaker, and take the call on the speaker so the mic picks up both sides. Absent a tape recorder, you could use a mic or telephone pickup coil plugged into the 'Line In' jack of your computer's sound card. Windows Sound Recorder does an adequate job for the purpose. If you'd rather not mess with it, no biggie, I don't think. Just be certain to keep detailed notes.
On the money: I was trying for humor, but I suspect that I failed miserably. Sorry about that. 
If you are unable to record the calls, please at the very least
If you are unable to record the calls, please at the very least keep a written log of times, Dates, who you are speaking too and what was said.
I would say when you go to court to represent yourself take the
I would say when you go to court to represent yourself take the bank statements with you so you can have proof that you didn't send a payment and use the state code stating that it is indeed a open ended account and the SOL has expired.
Quote:I would say when you go to court to represent yourself tak
Quote:
I would say when you go to court to represent yourself take the bank statements with you so you can have proof that you didn't send a payment |
I did this last time, only I never got to talk to the judge. I just talked to the lawyer for Calvary.
He told me that it was too late for me to do a DV for myself, that he'd have to do it, but then they didn't do it!
I don't have enough vacation days to keep going once a month forever while they sit on this. Blah!
I'll go this morning, but I think before next month I'll write a little letter to the judge explaining that the SOL is expired, they're not doing what they're supposed to in order to prove that it isn't expired, and I've about had enough.
Maybe they're hoping that I won't show up one of these days, so that they can call for default on me.
I don????????t have any experience with this type of t
I don????????t have any experience with this type of thing, but I would avoid talking to their lawyer. Won????????t you be able to talk to the judge today and show/tell him your side of this?
You don't even have to worry about validation in order to get th
You don't even have to worry about validation in order to get the court case taken care of, just use the state code to show that SOL is up, they will have to prove otherwise. See if you can find out when the last time you made a payment on this debt is and use that as your defense.
Well, I went. They had put in the continuance but I asked to ta
Well, I went. They had put in the continuance but I asked to talk to the lady anyway. She was much nicer than she was last night, but I asked her flat out what code or statute she was looking at that said this was a 10 year SOL. She said that the credit collection place said it was 10 years.
Right, I believe that.
Anyway, it got moved out two months (instead of one) and I'm not sure what I'm going to do. She said she would send the debt/payment verification thing to them and let me know.
What I'm tempted to do, though, is get a copy of my bank statements or *something* to show to the judge and ask him to dismiss with prejudice (so they can't try this again later). I'm not going to let this keep going on forever if I can help it.
?? Yeah. Right. Sure they'll send it. Get your statements t
??
Yeah. Right. Sure they'll send it.
Get your statements together, along with anything else you can think of that you might need. You likely won't need the statements, since [IIRC] you're planning on the SOL as a defense. Still, better to have them and not need them, than the other way around.
being sued
You are approaching this the wrong way and setting yourself up to lose. Do not worry about what information you have, you need to request discovery and ask them to produce documents showing that this account is within the sol. Do you answer the complaint? If you did, did you put forth any defenses, any counter claims?
