Debit Validation...was it done properly? (Long post)

Also, are they allowed to charge me interest on this account?

Send Portfolio a DV letter. They are lowlifes; you can read about them on budhibbs.com.

Welcome to the community Guest.
They are trying to pull wool over your eyes on this one. Validation consists of documentation from the original creditor. That affidavit is not validation, perhaps if they would have provided you with previous statements, a breakdown of the bill including any interest (if allowed by your state or the original contract) a copy of the original contract and a bill of sale or assignment contract was included then they would have pretty much validated it. That wasn't validation, they pretty much gave you verification of the debt followed by the affidavit which is worthless as far as validation is concerned.

Perhaps they need a friendly reminder of what real validation is. Check my signature link for a validation letter template and send it to them with the enclosure, certified mail, return receipt requested.

Thank you! So your saying that with all legal dvs, they must send you copies of the original paperwork?
And Guest, if you read my original post, I DID send the a DV request, using the templates on this site.
The DV request states:
??
Please see my above notes and questions in red I want to make sure I fully understand. Thanks so much!

6. Yes, it is four years for this type of debt.
7. To verify you would need to contact either
(as I'm not sure what entity in NY governs his) state tax department or comptrollers office.
9. No, this would be substantiated by either a bill of sale (if they purchased the debt) or an assignment contract (if they are collecting on behalf of the original creditor)

As to things that do not apply then they will not have to provide since they are not applicable since it is in fact a utility account.

dont they still have to show that he even had an account with Con-Ed? There has to be some kind of documentation that he started service with them in his name, doesnt there?
To the OP, this is nowhere near legal validation. They simply dont have the proof, thats what my guess is--look at what they said to you in their response:
??????
Now, dont get this wrong--Portfolio knows darn well exactly what the law requires them to send you in response to a DV letter. Theyve been around long enough to know how this game works. If they really had this documentation, as their "affidavit" claims, then they wouldnt have had to send you the affidavit!!! They would have just sent you copies of those documents "provided by Con-Ed"!! Thats what they must do according to the law, and they know it.
How long ago did you have this account?
Something else I would check into, just to make sure they really arent trying to mess with you--check all three of your credit reports. They even called this a "loan" in their reply to you, so who knows how they listed it on your bureaus? You may find numerous FCRA violations there, and you can sue over those to the tune of $1000 each. Many people look into the fdcpa end of things, but not the FCRA. Check both--cover all the bases.

OK, so as advised I sent a second DV request to Portfolio Recovery, told them they did not properly validate. Here is their response


OK, that whole jumbled paragraph citing case law confused the heck out of me, sounds like another language! But from what I read, Portfolio Recovery is notorious for this. Are the correct though, did they really properly validate ( sample of what I receive is in my posts above), or are PRA bull sh-ting me?
How do I proceed?

Tell them that there is a difference between "VERIFICATION" AND "VALIDATION". They have not validated.

Let me make sure then that I understand this correctly. What they are providing is verification? The case law they have provided is based on verification. What I am asking for is validation, and is completely different. Is this correct?

How do I word my letter back to them? Is there any case law I should provide? I don't know how to respond to them. And giving PRA's history, I want to be extremely careful.

Thanks!

I am not a lawyer but this is my opinion about the fdcpa. The problem with the FDCPA is that it really does not require much for validation to occur as seen in section 809. They probably validated according to that section but you can dispute their weak attempt of validation. Really all they provided was a simple verification which is all section 809 states but it also leaves everything open to futher dispute. They basically satisfied statement 1 and 2 below for initial validation purposes but they would need actual evidence if they were to sue you. They also leave themselves open for dispute because they have to by law according to statements 3-5 below. I think if you continue to dispute the debt as shown below you will either force them to quit bothering you, sell off your debt to another collecor or do all the leg work so they have solid evidence to win if they ever sue you.
Here is FDCPA section 809.


What I would do is send them a follow up letter return receipt requested stating that I am disputing the entirity of this debt according to section 809 subsection 3 of the FDCPA including but not limited to the original creditor, the claimed amount owed, the Date Account Opened, the Date of Last Payment, the Amount of Last Payment and the Original Creditor????????s Charge-off Date, and will do so until the following are provided as requested in the initial debt validation request that I sent to your company on xxx date:
2. Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
3. Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
10. Complete payment history, starting with the original creditor. (I need to have proof of my payment history with original Creditor, what the amount of the debt was when the creditor assigned the debt to your company, and what fees/interest has been tacked on to this debt and how you/they determined these fees.) This requirement was established by the case Fields v. Wilber Law Firm, Donald L. Wilber and Kenneth Wilber, USCA-02-C-0072, 7th Circuit Court, Sept 2004..
11. Copy of the original signed loan agreement or credit card application. (My contract with the original creditor establishing the debt between us.) This is also basic contract law.
At this time I must advise you that you are in violation of FDCPA section 808 subsection 1 until the above is provided which establishes the validity of the amount of the debt.

(Basically what you are saying here is they have to show you the written agreement that sets up and establishes how they calculated what you owe and they most provide all of that to you.)
At this time I must advise you that you are also in violation of FDCPA section 809 subsection 2 because I am not aware of said company or any contract that I had with said company and I will require the original signed contract to establish my business relationship with said company.
(Basically here you would be disputing any relationship you ever had with the company and that they must prove that relationship before you will work with them on the debt. You might have to leave this out if you already admitted somewhere that you had a relationship with the electric company but I would still try to make them provide a written contract knowing full well that no written contract exists or at least I never had a written contract with an electric company.)
This is just my opinion so I don't know what would happen if they actually sued you. I think they would have to at least establish how they calculated the final balance. I am not sure what kind of proof they would need for the original relationship between you and the electric company but I suspect a few statments might be enough.

Dollars, thanks so much for that awesome reply!!!!! :)

You're welcome. I think by using that method you could keep the debt in dispute a long time by firing off a similar letter to each of their poor responses. In the mean time if it is something you do owe then I would try to save up enough cash to settle it. I would not pay an inflated value though. I would try to settle for 50% of what you owed before any penalties or interest were tacked on. It looked like from the first post that the amount you owed was around $800 so I would shoot for $400 since the debt is a couple years old now. Another thing I would do is contact the electric company and try to see if you could settle with them and also if you could get your old statements. With those in hand you will at least know what was really owed and not have to listen to some schlep try to jack the price up on you.