PDL in Kentucky

Hmmmmmmm, a warrant for her arrest? Well, in the first place, they can't arrest her for not paying a bill, and in the second place, they broke the law when they threatened to have her arrested, however, unless she recorded it, it didn't happen and can't be used against them in a court of law as there is no proof, only her word. :? You shouldn't threaten a creditor with an Attorney unless you REALLY have one. If they do send it to a collection agency (and they probably will), she can send them a letter and ask them to validate the debt, basically all that will do is buy her more time. I guess I would try to work something out with them, a payment arrangement of some type, because if it goes to court, and your friend proves that she is on a limited income, that is what the judge will do anyway, if you ask him, except she will end up owing more because of court costs, etc. So yes, I would definitely try to work out a payment plan.

Thank you for responding so swiftly. :D

Ok I will take the lawyer part out of the letter, but I just wanted to give these people some payback. They pray on so many people, and I think they are just plain scum. We will go into the office Monday and let them know that we can't pay it in full. And try to get them to work out a payment plan. And this time I will be recording the conversation, I hope she is dumb enough to spew that BS again.

Thanks again!

Most definitely protect yourself, luckily Kentucky is a one party state, but that pertains to recorded telephone conversations, so I'm not sure if that applies to fin person conversations or not.

Oh wait, I looked up the "eavesdropping law" for Kentucky and here it is below, looks like it's OK for you to record an in person conversation as long as one party knows about it, and that party would be you! :D

[quote]Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. ???? 526.010: It is a felony to overhear or record, through use of an electronic or mechanical device, a wire or oral communication without the consent of at least one party to that communication. Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. ???? 526.020.[/quote]

Once again thanks for the tips! I was going to check that very thing myself today. But you beat me to the punch. :D

Good luck! I hope it all works out in her favor, take good care. :)

As a resident of Ky. I can attest to the fact that a PDL cannot file felony check charges against your girlfriend. I was informed of this by an attorney when I filed for bankruptcy a couple of years ago. ONe of the payday loans attempted to attatch my wages but when I called the payroll dept where I worked at the time, the lady stated that the only type of debt that they could attatch to anyones' wages were child support. Needless to say, none of the PDL places that I had accounts with were able to collect due to bankruptcy and also due to the fact that even though one of them attempted to attatch my wages, my payroll dept at my job at the time,were not obligated to do it. If I were you I would consult an attorney or a paralegal, and also...keep in touch with this online community for all types of constructive advise and resources. A lot of creditors barks or worse than their bites. They use a lot of scare tactics in order to get people to pay.

do you have to have good credit to get a loan at cash express? what do you have to do?
thanks,
mike

No they don't perform any credit check. But take my advice and do NOT take out a PDL, I know it seems very convenient but you get stuck in a cycle that you can't escape.

She talked to her cousin yesterday who is an attorney and he contacted them. So I didn't have to send the letters. We still don't know if they will set up a payment plan though they want her to come in on the first to discuss it.

I already told her that if they say no to the payment plan that we will just walk right out. And let it go to court.

Sorry about that guys I keep forgetting to log in lol...

To the guest that wrote in about getting a payday loan. "Don't do it!" I took out payday loans several yrs. ago and you can get caught up in a cycle of literally "robbing Peter to pay Paul." You never get caught up and your bank account goes South because they will keep debiting your accounts and you cannot pay your other bills or have money left over for groceries etc..."Don't take out a payday loan!"

These people had the nerve to come over to the electric company and confront her in the parking lot. Again they threatened to have her arrested.

I couldn't get it on tape but I heard the woman say it this time. We went to their office to try and work out a payment plan, and they demanded that she pay half of it up front. Or that they would file a warrant. I wonder why they keep using the word "warrant", even after I informed them that they can not have her arrested, the one girl said it was illegal to write a cold check. Then her boss jumped into the conversation, she said that they could file a warrant and that we would have to go to court, if we didn't pay half of it today.

I told her that they should just work out a payment plan with us, because a judge would do that anyway because she is on a fixed income. The lady was like well he might... LOL These people will try ANYTHING to bully people.

I then told them that we will not take food off our table over this. Then the lady was like well then I'll file the "warrant" So I told her we will see you in court, and exited the building.

She set up an appointment with her cousin tomorrow. What is crazy is that they didn't even attempt to drop the check into the bank, so would that work against them or for them?

I don't know but even though my girlfriend knows they can't have her arrested, these people have got her very upset. So should we send them a C&D letter at this point? If we should can anyone point me to a template for the letter.

Thanks guys.

I was just going over the laws regarding payday loans in Kentucky, and this one caught my eye.

(19)[(18)] Each deferred deposit service business licensee shall conspicuously display in every deferred deposit business location a sign that gives the following notice: "No person who enters into a post-dated check or deferred deposit check transaction with this business establishment will be prosecuted or convicted of writing cold checks or of theft by deception under the provisions of KRS 514.040.

This company that we have a dispute with does not have any sign that says this.

So what should I do here, How would I go about nailing them for this?

Xandorf, First, storefronts do no have to follow CFSA in KY. The KY laws do not allow for the CFSA repayment plan. Companies are members, but state law prevails over the CFSA membership rules. Also, it has been my experience in KY that companies ( including Cash Express) will only break the ammt owed into two payments. When I tried to work out a payment plan with them, they said the same, they would file charges. I ended up paying down to get them off my back. I am really sorry you are having such trouble with them. I would recommend you contact another Cash Express and find out who the district manager is for that area and try talking to them and telling them what is going on with that store.....work your way up to the corporate office if you have to. On one of mine, after I was treated to scare tatics, I went straight to the corporate office and the DM called and apologized...this may not work , but it is worth a shot.

You should buy a $20 tape recorder and record all conversations you have with them. She can't say she is going to file a warrant. She is trying to drop a buzz word to scare you and she is not using the appropriate language. She should be saying she is going to file a small claim but she is switching it to warrant and implying that you will be arrested. If you don't have the money to settle in two payments like they want and they won't budge then I see no other option but to wait until they sue and let the judge set the payments. If you could save up $100 per month you might have $400 by the time they sue anyway and you could offer that as settled in full.

Well, I woke up this morning to the sheriff banging on our door. They have already filed the small claims suit, she has to appear in court on the 16th.

I'm going to have her ask the judge for a continuance for her to obtain council.

These people have just started a war. I am going to smear their tactics all over the web. And I am going to contact every government agency that can deal with these people. They might win their lawsuit. But they will lose in the end.....

Sorry guys I forgot to log in. Again.... :D

Damn!! :shock: Xandorf...I am so sorry to read this. Maybe atleast with a court date, the harrassment will stop? The 16h of this month is awfully quick. I so wish I had some perals of wisdom for you. Please do keep us posted. I have had dealings with this company and they do suck.

LOL I just spoke to the county sheriff, and this lady actually tried to file cold check charges against her!!!!

KRS 368.010 (18)[(17)] No deferred deposit service business licensee who enters into a deferred deposit transaction with an individual shall prosecute or threaten to prosecute an individual under the provisions of KRS 514.040.

The sheriff has already said that he will tell the attorney general everything.

They are going down!

Woohoo!! I have my fingers and toes crossed for you. I really dislike this company!

Yeah I bet that is how they got the case set so quickly. They filed as fraud via a cold check which is against the law for a PDL to do. In might be worth investigating options of a counter claim. You really need to get a recorder and go in their shop to get some really good evidence to go along with their false filing.

No the Sheriff flat out told the lady that she can't file charges against her because it was a postdated check. And the only thing she could do is file a small claims lawsuit. Which she did.

We just talked to her lawyer, and he said because she has no property, and her only income is SS Disability. That even a judgment against her is essentially worthless. They can't garnish SS payments.

He said that setting up a payment plan through the judge would not be a good idea, because the PDL company will just absorb the payments as interest. And the principal will never go down. So we are just going to hold off on them until we can pay it in full. Then be done with it.

All of the property that we have, car ect. is in my name, and we are not married so they can't touch it.

I'm going to their office today to take photos of their signs, to send to the AG. I might even go down to the sheriff's office and ask him to make out an affidavit concerning her attempt to prosecute.

I guess this lady thinks the piece of paper in her hand is going to turn green lol...

I just talked to her about it. And she is going to start contacting civil lawyers to see if she has a case. Her cousin deals only in criminal cases.

Wish us luck!

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Ok I will have her ask the attorney when she starts the calls. Yea I too thought that sounded a bit inaccurate. I hope to god we got a case.

Would we be able to go through the attorney about them not having the sign at their store. (The one I mentioned before.) Or would that be something that goes specifically to the AG?

Sorry about all these questions, I just want to make sure we got everything covered before she contacts the attorney.

As far as the recording goes, I don't think they would be stupid enough to spew that crap a third time.

How could I go about getting them to say it, without it being entrapment?

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Ok I have filed complaints with both the FTC and the BBB. I have to get a bit more evidence before sending my complaint to the AG.
The CSFA's complaint form doesn't seem to work. So I will try that one later.

And we are contacting the attorney tomorrow.
Thank you guys again for all of your help. It feels good knowing that we are not the only ones facing situations like this.

Talked to another attorney, he said that the judge won't break it into payments. It's the plaintiff's decision to accept payments or not.

But he said the only way they can collect, is to file a writ of execution. Which they won't do because they have to pay the sheriff quite a bit in deposits to do that. He said in his 30 years of practicing law here, he has yet to see a WOE filed.

And her SS payments are safe because she gets a written check.

But he said to appear in court, and tell the judge about her threats to have her arrested, and her attempt to file cold check charges. But all the lady will get is scolded by the judge, and told never to do it again.

But I'm willing to bet, that this lady has done this to other people, and if she has. The judge may not be so lenient on her.

Either way, my girlfriend is "Judgment Proof" to use his words. So they can't collect.

So should I take his advice? Or is he full of ****

I just found something in the KRS 24A.240 that might help me.

(3) No person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation engaged, either primarily or secondarily, in the business of lending money at interest, nor any collection agency or collection agent, may bring an action in the division in furtherance of their business.

What I'm wondering is, how did this woman file a small claims lawsuit. According to this law, she shouldn't have been able too. I'm going to check with the clerk of courts Monday. I bet just like DOLLARSandSINCE said, she filed it under fraud via a cold check.

What I'm wondering is, would we be able to get the suit dismissed because of this?
I'm not asking any more lawyers around where I live anything, they obviously don't know their butts from a hole in the ground.

Thanks again guys!

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You can try the NACA website, they specialize in consumer law and you can search for an Attorney in your area.

A PDL company can take you to small claims court and can also collect the money that it cost them to take you to court.
PDL are set up to help you. If you get in a cycle then thats your fault. Dont borrow if you can not pay it back. Boorow it... go back on your due date... and pay it off.. dont blame them for you not being able to pay it

PDL companies are not set up to help people Molly. PDL companies are set up to drain poor people of their money. This particular PDL was using illegal collection practices. If the OP had them on tape then they had a good chance to win money in court for violations by the PDL. Also, a person is in the PDL cycle as soon as they take the first loan. That is the nature of PDLs. Sooner a later the person will inevitably default. It is a given. By your logic nobody should ever take a PDL and I agree because they are junk.

No company should break the state laws . If a person borrowed money from you and couldnt pay it back and you have tried to call them and work it out and they wont return ur calls... My question to you is... Are you going to let them take your money that they owe you? To me that is stealing and that should be against the law

most PDL will work with a person that is having trouble paying.... but... the person that owes should contact that company and set up a payment plan or some sort of a re-payment option . If that company will not work with this customer then they are wrong for not wanting to help a customer that is defaulting on their loan

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Isn't it illegal to attempt to collect a debt by going to the persons house or employment?

I had a guy threaten to do that to me when I lived in WI. I told him that all I had to do was to make sure his body fell into my door way for it to be considered self defense.

He stopped calling.

I don't think it violates any laws until the person tells them not to come by their home or place of employment. I certainly would be aggrivated if a debt collector tried to do it to me and I would throw them off my property.

???????Evil??????? Fast payday loans can actually be a quick, smart way to avoid huge bank fees.

Fast Payday loans can be a quick, smart way to avoid huge bank fees in an emergency.

The Denver Post had a surprising article defending payday loans, that suggested we not be so fast to harshly judge those no credit check, no teletrack, instant payday loans you see advertised everywhere. There????????s been for a few years now a growing mood of outrage towards payday loan lenders- they are considered slimy and evil, unlike good, respectable banks. They are even either illegal or impossible in 13 states (impossible due to laws imposing interest caps, which makes them unprofitable.) But in Terry Kibbe????????s article yesterday (March 13, 2008), Without payday loans, some consumers pay more bank fees, she shows that fast emergency payday loans can help consumers actually AVOID huge and often crippling bank loan fees.

When payday loans disappeared in Georgia, consumers actually paid higher costs in overdraft bank charges and late fees. Economist Donald Morgan (Federal Reserve Bank of New York) noted that when payday lenders were forced to shut down in Georgia, it was the credit unions that reaped big profits. Morgan recently told Forbes Magazine that, ???????interest rates on overdrafts charged by credit unions and banks can exceed 2,000%, dwarfing the high interest rates on payday loans.???????

I actually worked at a major bank for a while, and fielded calls all day from people begging me to reverse bank fees. This bank charged $35 for EACH overdrawn transaction, and each night would process the most expensive transaction first. In other words, if someone made 5 $5 purchases with their bank debit card in the morning, and then that evening bought $200 in groceries, that totals $225. If they only had $204 in their bank account, their largest item would go thru, resulting in a $35 fee for EACH of those 5 $5 purchases in the morning. Plus one overdrawn fee of $30 for going overdrawn. This would result in the consumer having over $200 in fees for being $21 short! This isn????????t just a hypothetical. I saw it every single day. And listened to these consumers begging me to reverse the charges. For many of them, taking the time to research and then choose a fast payday loan lender would have been a wiser choice.
And worse, many bank customers I spoke with had direct deposit into their bank account from their employess, where the moment their $800 Mcpaycheck was transferred to their account, the bank would take out $600 in late fees from the previous 2 weeks, leaving them with $200, practically ensuring the cycle would continue. All major banks have a black list, so that if someone tries to hop to another bank to break out of this downward spiral, they will be declined.
I was actually fired from this bank for being too much of a Robin Hood. Reversing too many late fees from tough cases of people who had very little hope.

In light of that experience, I have to agree. Fast emergency payday loans- the kind so many of us feel angry about for taking advantage of people in financial difficulties- they actually can be the most intelligent alternative compared with the huge fees banks now charge. According to the payday loan article:

A separate report in the Norfolk, Virginia metro area revealed that the majority of payday borrowers are middle income, educated consumers who are using the bridge loans in a responsible way.

This was interesting to me because the people who called me- most of them had Mcjobs and might not have had the foresight to actually choose to get a quick payday loan instead of reap such outlandish banking fees.

So if you reach a point where you are going to have to face those huge bank fees, you might find a fast payday loan company online or in your town. Make sure they are reputable, and find out exactly what ALL the fees are and the exact terms of the loan. Make sure you understand it, and add it up. Then call your bank, or look online and make sure you understand ALL the fees they will charge. Compare and make the smartest decision. Payday loan lenders offer comparatively fast cash advance loans with no credit check, no teletrack and no telecheck. All that means is it????????s quick and easy for you, and just requires them seeing evidence you have a steady job. But paying BACK the loan isn????????t always so quick and easy. So make sure you have a real plan to do that, and a longer term plan to avoid these situations in the future. No matter which way you go, the fees DO add up. There are many sites that have some trustworthy consumer info on payday loans, hard money loans and other consumer loan info, including Smart Money Daily Payday Loans.

What all the experts point to is 1. read the fine print on the cash advance loan, making sure you understand what you are agreeing to, and 2. make sure you have a definite plan to pay back the payday loan, to prevent a spiralling cycle of increased debt.

Page topic: Judging payday loan lenders? Not so fast: Payday loans can be a wiser alternative than terrible bank fees, in spite of the growing outrage and increased laws towards payday cash advance com

Haha what a freaking joke. Mixing the words Payday loan and wise is a flat out oxymoron. There is nothing wise about getting your finances mixed up with PDL loans. They are a huge waste of money. That doesn't mean I am defending banks and their ridiculous fees either. Same goes for credit cards and their ridiculous fees. Really what I would like to see is some hard caps placed on interest rates and fees for all types of loans. Receiving a $35 fee for an overdraft or missed payment is not right. In my opinion rates should be capped at about 5-10% plus prime max and fees shouldn't be over $10 maybe. It is not wise to borrow money over that rate anyway so it might as well be capped there. Anything over that rate is just meant to take advantage of someone that really can't afford the loan to begin with hence the PDL trap.

I had the underprivilege of working for Cash Express for a brief 6 weeks. Their policy is to threaten and bully each and every day. They call the bank each morning to see if funds are available if the money is availalbe then they go get them. Otherwise they call the person 2 x a day and threaten to have them arrested or threaten them with a "warrant" The only recourse they have is to take people to small claims court and that doesn't happen for at least 90 days from the date of the loan. They have to call on the loan every day for 90 days and then it gets sent to corporate and corporate trys for a while and then they take people to small claims court and yes they have won in Kentucky. However, I believe if you live in Frankfort (only) they cannot take you to small claims court even.

That letter you received from Cash Express is like a joke. It is sent out by the clerks as a means and measure to collect. The accounts do not even go to the corporate office unless 90 days have passed! In addition, THEY SIMPLY REFUSE to take payments. They want the money in full or nothing so I believe since they will not negotiate, they should not be allowed to take people to court, however, that is just my opinion.

I have 5 paydayloans at 3 diffrent stores. It finally got to the point where I can't pay them. If I open another account to protect my social security income, what can happen? I live in Kentucky.

my husband and I both have separte pdl They have threten us with warrants . we are filing bamkrupcy

I have a loan with Cash Express, LLC in Tennessee. It is for 400. I actually took it out a couple of months ago, and got stuck in that cycle of renewing it, because I did not have the entire payment. My most recent payment was due on 1/16. They had been calling me about it, but I was unable to call back until 1/23. I told the rep that answered I would be in 1/30 to pay the loan off. I am scheduled to have my tax return deposited that day. The rep was practically screaming at me. Telling me she could not hold it another week. I was already a week late, blah blah. I said I cannot pay a payment today, I do not have it. I will not have any money until 1/30 as I have been laid off from work. She said she would have to turn it over Monday (today) if I did not pay before then. I ask what "turn it over means" , she said she would be turning it over to their lawyer, and would issue a warrant for my arrest with the sheriff. I just told her to have a nice day, and hung up. I will go pay on 1/30; I assume they will take my money then.
I was over a week late before on a payment and they sent me a letter like the original poster received. I also, know that even if they issue a warrant, it is a civil matter. (my loan was a signature loan, and did not involve any checks or bank accounts). If I did have to appear before a judge I am sure they would allow payment arrangements.
I hate this company, and would not recommend them to anyone. I hope it works out of you, and me..

I am a former cash express store manager and I am so sorry that this has happened to you. I did not know anything about payday lending until after I had accepted the job offer. It did not take me long to see that I was working for Satin himself. Some of their collection practices are a disgrace. The entire industry preys on the poor and hard working people in this country. It is nothing but pure GREED. Did you know that there are as many payday lending stores in this country as there are Starbucks and Mcdonalds combined? That should tell us all something. As much money as this company rakes in you would think that they would offer some employee benefits but they do not. Be patient, it will not be long before God comes and cleans them all up and then they will be the ones that will pay the the ultimate price. Good luck to you and God bless.

PDLex

Sorry that you worked for a company that you were not happy with, but you need to make sure that you are giving accurate facts about the industry.

a) You cannot accurately compare an entire industry to one or two companies. That would be called a manipulation of numbers.

b) I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you really have no concept of how much money Cash Express was ACTUALLY making. You would probably be surprised to see what the real profit margin is as it is less than most fast food restaurants and financial institutions among others.

c) If "god comes and cleans them up", you will only be left with the worst of the worst on the internet. Is that what you REALLY want?

In response to your statements PDLowner:

a) I think it is pretty much common knowledge amongst anyone that has any financial sense that PDL stores are nothing more than predatory lending and prey on the poor. The blanket statement two posts above is pretty accurate in that regard in my opinion.

b) My guess is you probably have no clue what the profit margin is for any of those companies either. Frankly, the profit margin doesn???t matter anyway. It is a pretty safe bet that they are making money given the fact that you can find these type places quite easily when you drive through poorer areas of any town. If they were not making money then they wouldn???t be operating all over the place.

c) I don???t think it is God???s responsibility to put these guys out of business. I think some better laws need to be passed to limit the amount of interest that can be collected on any type of loan or credit. Personally I think all APRs including default rates should be capped around prime plus 5-10% on any type of loan. That would rein in all kinds of companies and their poor lending habits including PDLs and banks.

d) Finally, just because there are bad predatory lenders via the internet does not mean attempts to crack down on both entities should be stopped.

Most payday loan offices are set up in neighborhoods and in areas where the residents can least afford them. It is done on purpose because they count on low income people whose credit may not be so good that look to other means when they need money for an emergency.

Payday loans are literally the "worst of the worst". YOu don't see very many payday stores in areas where people have really high income margins. They exploit the poor and the working class. People that cannot afford the trap that they get people bound into. There is something corrosive about the types of industry where thre is quick cash handouts to people with little or no policing being done, but an emphasis on fleecing people for every little dime that these banks that finance these institutions can get hold of. The system is not for the consumer and not designed for him either. The system is set up for the wealthy and well connected. The more they get from the little person on the street, the more that goes into their pockets. The interest rates alone and the default rates are what various institutions count on in order to make their money. The whole idea that the payday loans are around to "help" the people is a crock of crap! They like all financial institutions, are in it to exploit people, and to give them (the people) something that they need at a price that they in many cases cannot afford. If these people could do it, they would take the gold fillings out of your mouth if they could, just to get their hands on something valuable if you fall behind on your payments. Of course, no one holds a gun to anyones' head and makes them walk into these places its true, but if you have less than perfect credit and something happens where you need emergency money for car repairs, medical bills, whatever the case is, and no one else is around that can give you the money, you may find yourself having to fall back on these people, and that is what they count on. "Oh well help you in your time of need." ie...."come into my parlor," says the spider to the fly." "The devil has the ability to take on a pleasing shape". He makes it look pleasing and tempting and than once you are taken in....he has you! Once you take out a pdl, they have you, and they won't let go...that is if you default on the loan. Many lie, cheat, yes and steal, due to the outrageous interest fees that they charge. To defend such ruthlessness is unconscienable. It is literally to defend that which is evil. To prey on anyones' vunerability....whether they knowingly fall into the trap or not, is evil. It is like enabling someone that you know has a drug problem and buying or facilitating their habit when you know it is no good for them. They may want the drug, and you may dispense it to them are help to facilitate their taking of it....that makes you partially accountable for their downfall. Setting up institutions that exploit people that make little more than minimum wage is just as monstrous. These people don't provide services, they create pain and suffering. Threats of jail, lawsuits etc..., are akin to the loanshark on the street corner that threatens to break your legs if you don't pay up. I'd trust a gangster moreso than I would some clean cut three piece suit wearing theif that is cutting my throat while I am signing on the dotted line. At least the gangster on the street is not trying to pretend he's something that he isn't, a legitimate business..where, "the customer, is always right."