PDL's

You're paying over $1100 in interest alone every paycheck with those loans. It isn't your bank account anymore . . . it's THEIRS! The first thing you need to close the account and make other arrangements to pay for daycare. Get the bleeding stop and then you can worry about how to handle the bank loan (ThinkCash loans are made by First Bank of Delaware) the licensed loans (CashNetUSA and Payday One) and the other ones.

Thanks for the advice... My concern is will they start calling me at work and calling my references?
Can I ask my bank to not allow transaction from these people?

You can try and stop the transactions through the bank, but they sometimes get around that by changing their name or the amount of their debit, some companies will put through a paper check as well. Its usually better to close the account completly so they no longer have access to your money.

Do I just call the bank to close the account and open another? Do I call the PDL's to tell them anything?

you should close your account in person.also make sure it won't be re-opened with pending transactions.DO NOT tell the pdl's anything.they will bleed the account dry.leaving you drowining in nsf red ink.

Do I tell the bank any of these things or just close the account? (Sorry to sound so stupid I just don't want to do anything wrong.) If I go in tomorrow is that too late for Friday? Will the PDL's start calling me immediately?

You can tell the bank as much as you like, it is your account and you have a right to close it. If it makes you more comfortable tell them that there has been some fradulent activity and you are trying to prevent them from getting any more of you money. You should also speak with a manager to make sure it is done property. Tomorrow should be OK, depending on your bank. When I closed my account, I was advised that it would take a business day and if anything came through in that time it would be opened again. Luckily for me, it closed without a problem

The calls may start coming in when the pdl's realize that their payments were returned. Some may call right away, others make take a little while. Once the account is closed, make sure you get the letter out advising them not to contact you by phone, only by mail.

Thank you so much for your help! I will close my account tomorrow and send them letter ASAP. Then do I work out arrangements with them? Do any ever just settle since I have paid so much more than what I borrowed? I am not looking ot get refunds I just want to stop paying $1000.00 per paycheck to fees and not the principles!

I just did this, this week. I went to my bank when I found out these loans were illegal in the state of new york. The bank put a stop payment on all 6 of my loans and closed the account for me. They re-opened another one right away but thankfully, 600 of my hard earned money didn't get eaten away :)

Its a great feeling...I felt the same way when I actually saw my first paycheck and was able to use it for bills & stuff, I was paying out about $2400 in fees a month...didn't leave much for everything else

Does anyone kow what to tell the pdl companies about the laws in my state.? If I am reading correctly then I have been significantly overpaying the interest?! How do I get out of the debts still owed?

Hi overwhelmed,

Here are the laws and some info for MN:
Quote:
Minnesota State Information

Legal Status: Legal

Citation:
Minn. Stat. Ann. ???? 47.60

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $350
Loan Term: Max: 30 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: $5.50: $0-$50; 10%+$5: $51-$100; 7% (min. $10) + $5: $101-$250; 6% (min. $17.50) + $5: $251-$350 (After default: 2.75% per month)
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $15
apr for 14-day $100 loan: 390%

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: Not Specified
Rollovers Permitted: None (cannot repay with proceeds of another loan by same lender)
Cooling-off Period:
Repayment Plan:

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: $30 NSF fee
Criminal Action:

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: Minnesota Department of Commerce
Address: Division of Financial Examinations, 85 7th Place East, Suite 500 St. Paul MN 55101
Phone: (651) 296-2135
Fax: (651) 296-8591
Regulatory Contact: Kevin Murphy,, Deputy Commissioner
Emails to and from the MN Banking Dept:

From:
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:44 PM
To: Financial.Commerce(at)state.mn.us
Subject: Payday loan questions

Hello,

I have a question about internet payday loans. Do these need to be licensed in MN to be legal? Also, how do I calculate the legal amount of interest they can charge me according to MN laws? I see the laws state:

Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: $5.50: $0-$50; 10%+$5: $51-$100; 7% (min. $10) + $5: $101-$250; 6% (min. $17.50) + $5: $251-$350 (After default: 2.75% per month)
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $15
APR for 14-day $100 loan: 390%

So for a $300 loan how would I calculate the interest? And since no rollovers are allowed and the companies I have loans with have rolled them over countless times, would I be correct in saying that they are breaking the law? I've been told by several of them that they don't have to follow MN laws, even though they solicited me, because they are licensed in the state that they are located in. Is that correct?

I really appreciate any help or direction you could give me!

Thanks!

Response:

From: Terry Meyer
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:40 AM
To:
Subject: FW: Payday loan questions

First we don????????t license lenders that are domiciled in other states. Minnesota law does not have a long arm statute and allows residents to seek loans wherever they want. Solicitations via the internet or ads do not place the lender in Minnesota, only a physical location would [the exception being residential mortgage lenders].

The way to calculate the APR for a 14 day loan is either using a T-I calculator. A fast check using the example for a $100 14 day loan is;
$15 finance charge divided by the $100 loan [proceeds of the loan, or amount financed] = .15, or 15%
.15 divided by the number of days in the loan, or 14, gives you the daily rate of .0004109589
Multiply that number by 365 [days in the year] = 3.91071428415, or 391.07% APR

Does that help ???????? and in Minnesota rollovers or refinancing is not permitted. Name the MN lender and file a complaint.

Reply:

From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:45 AM
To: Terry Meyer
Subject: FW: Payday loan questions

Terry,

So to make sure I understand this, a payday loan company located in another state doesn't have to be licensed to lend to MN consumers. But do they have to follow MN laws about rollovers and interest? Or can they follow the laws of the state in which they are located in?

Thanks for you help!

Response:

From: Terry Meyer
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:58 AM
To:
Subject: RE: FW: Payday loan questions

It is similar to credit cards ???????? I would bet, assuming you are a MN resident, that none of your credit cards are from banks located in MN. The Supreme Court ruled in both 1978 that rates, and 1996 that fees could be imported for credit cards issued by out of state lenders to other states borrowers. Its agency law. The use of the laws of the state in which the lender is licensed is required.

Please explain your interest and the firm you represent.

Reply:

From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:04 AM
To: Terry Meyer
Subject: RE: FW: Payday loan questions

Terry,

I don't represent any firm. I was just trying to get some more information about the laws governing these kind of loans. The reason I was curious about the specific point of if state law governs out of state pdl's is because where I live, Oregon, they do have a law saying that out of state pdl's much be licensed in OR and follow the laws of OR. I was hoping the same thing applied to MN, because in that case all his pdl's were grossly overcharging him.

Thanks!

Response:

From: Terry Meyer [
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:30 AM
To:
Subject: RE: RE: FW: Payday loan questions

Good luck ???????? we recently received a complaint on a Payday loan from Malta. Since MN doesn????????t have a law like OR each state would have to be contacted for their payday loan law to determine if a violation occurred.

What does this mean?

There are very specific rates they can charge you depending on the amount loaned.

Rollovers are not allowed.

Internet companies can lend legally as long as they are licensed in another state. They must follow the laws of that state.
What we would need to determine is if any of these companies are licensed in another state, if they are, then they are legal and would have to follow those states laws. The legal ones like Thinkcash & Cashnet USA should be dealt with first and then the illegal ones. I will do a search and see if any of the others are licensed anywhere. :D

Hi,
Here is some information I was able to find, hopefully someone will correct me if I've made a mistake:
Think Cash- B- $1250 P- $1756.55 ???????? Legal/Bank of DE
CashNetUsa- B- $600 p- $600 - Legal
UnitedCash- B- $350.00 P- $570.00 ???????? not legal/licensed
Little Loan Shop- B- $300 p- $90.00 ???????? legal/licensed in UT
Zip Cash- B$500.00 p- $950.00 ???????? legal/licensed in NM
500 Fast Cash- B- $500 p- $315.00 ???????? not legal/licensed
UpFrontPayDay- B-$500 P$500+ (Can't really tell online) ???????? I think they are illegal
PayDayOne- $500 p- $769.37+ - legal/licensed
If I am reading the list correctly you have 5 legal and 3 illegal PDL's...unfortunately the legal ones have to follow the laws of their states and they may have lax laws on interest and stuff. I will see if I can post some of those states laws

Hi again,
Here are the laws for some of the states, I'm not sure where Paydayone is licensed though:
[color=Blue]New Mexico Updated Laws
Quote:
New Mexico State Information

Legal Status: Legal

Citation:
N.M. Stat. Ann. ???? 58-15-32 to 38

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $2,500
Loan Term: 14 to 35 days, can be shorter by written agreement
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: $15.50 per $100; $.50 verification fee per $100
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $16
apr for 14-day $100 loan: 417.14%

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: Total capped at 25% gross monthly income
Rollovers Permitted: None
Cooling-off Period: 10 days
Repayment Plan: Yes, equal installments over 130 day period

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: $15 NSF fee one time per loan
Criminal Action: Prohibited

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: New Mexico Financial Institutions Division
Address: 2550 Cerrillos Road, 3rd Floor P. O. Box 25101 Santa Fe NM 87505
Phone: (505)476-4885
Fax: (505) 476-4670
Regulatory Contact: Henry A. Vigil,, Consumer Industry Manager


Code:
Nevada State Information

Legal Status: Legal

Citation:
Nev. Rev. Stat. 604A.010 et seq.

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: 25% of expected gross monthly income
Loan Term: Max: 60 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: Not Specified (After default: interest rate must be equal to or less than the prime rate at the largest bank in the State of Nevada plus 10 %)
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit
APR for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: Not Specified
Rollovers Permitted: Not Specified (Lenders cannot extend payment period beyond 60 days after expiration of initial loan period)
Cooling-off Period:
Repayment Plan: Yes

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: $25 dishonored check fee (max. two fees for insufficient funds; max. one fee for closed account) Court Costs; Reasonable Attorney's Fees; Service of process costs
Criminal Action: Prohibited (Unless customer acted with criminal intent)

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: Nevada Financial Institutions Division
Address: 2785 E. Desert Inn Rd., Suite 180 Las Vegas NV 89121
Phone: (702) 486-4120
Fax: (702) 486-4563
Regulatory Contact: , Supervisory Examiner
Regulator Website
Quote:
UTAH Laws
Legal Status: Legal (Applies to check cashers only)

Citation:
Utah Code Ann. ???? 7-23-101 et seq.

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: No Limit
Loan Term: May not exceed 12 weeks
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: No usury limit
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit
APR for 14-day $100 loan: No Limit

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: No limit
Rollovers Permitted: Not Specified (cannot extend or renew loan more than 12 weeks from original loan date)
Cooling-off Period: None
Repayment Plan:

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: Not Specified
Criminal Action: Not Specified

Where to Complain, Get Information:
Regulator: Utah Department of Financial Institutions
Address: 324 South State Street, Suite 201 Salt Lake City UT 84111
Phone: (801) 538-8830
Fax: (801) 538-8894
Regulatory Contact: , [/color]

As I said, if I am wrong on any of this, hopefully someone will com along to correct me.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help up to this point. I just got back from the bank and my account is closed-solid. I feel a huge sense of freedom. I know that I am in know way done with this process but I wanted to say thanks for your help!

Its a great feeling isn't it...it will slowly get easier as you get rid of the pdl's...the people on this site are great and really know their stuff

Sop my bank account is cloased and I am working this afternoon on the letters to the pdl's. ( i was waiting to guarantee that they could not access my account. ) I was reviewing the sample letters and do not know which one to send first? Also how do I bargain with them? Do I have to pay the legal companies the full amount owed including interest?

yes the legal ones you owe the balance or the portion remaining
plus interest.i would work with them first.the illegal ones are gonna be the hardest to deal with.just know that all of what they say is empty threats.

First of all- sorry about the typos. I must not have been paying very close attention. So for example, I got a loan from CashNetUSA for $600.00. I have paid $600.00 (and maybe more) in just interest. Now I know the $600.00 plus an additional $150.00. I can not pay them $750.00 today. Can I set up a payment plan or do they work with me to have part of the interest go towards the principle?

When the state laws talk about rolloever and loan terms (in relation to days) if I have been paying several installments over months, will this make the aggreement illegal?