Advanta Bank is not willing for debt settlement - what to do?

If you are getting calls from NCB, then Advanta has sold off the account to a junk debt buyer. Sent them a debt validation letter. I only got two letters from them. There was no mention of using a PI to investigate assets, etc. NCB has been much less aggressive than Advanta was.

Did you settle with NCB? So basically Advanta has charged off my account and I have no hope in repairing that on my credit report, correct?

I haven't settled with NCB. I have nothing to settle with. They are a junk debt buyer, and they can be defeated in court if they sue you.

If the account has been charged off and sold off, you probably can't fix your credit easily.

You do need to send NCB a debt validation letter (there are samples on this site) to find out if NCB owns the debt.

I just sent them a debt validation letter. My guess is that Advanta did charge off my account. How much do you think these junk debt buyers buy these accounts for? How many pennies on the dollar?

I'm a realtor in Fl. Call me Realtor Bob. Biz is not great! My 7.99% "fixed" rate went to 22%, then 37%-wasn't late until Jan. 09-when I stopped paying all the CCs. Currently 90+ days late on all. talking with Citi and JP/Chase to settle-both polite and professional. My cousin settled about 7 accounts all for between 25-35% of balances. Got the exact same letter from Lisa Fleischer in the legal dept. at Advanta. Called the number on the letter and they said I had to call AIC an outside collection agency-who has been calling and mysteriously they get to speak with my fax machine each time! The Advanta folks hung up on me and said I had to deal with the collections agency. I'm waiting them out. At the end of June the Advanta account will be 180 days late. If they want sue me, I'll might file for Chapter 7, keep my house, car, clothes furniture biz equip, etc. I live in FL-they can't get the house(no equity anyway), I'm self employed-can't garnish wages-even if there were any, have $14 in a BoFA savings-so what would they get my microwave oven??? Good, I'll leave the cheese stains in there for them! I have a relative who can loan me $ for a settlement but the truth is: the older the debt, and the larger the amount, the stronger your position will be when it comes time to settle. How does a company who's class A and B shares have fallen from $30 per share, to .30 cents per share in the last 2 years have the time or money or motivation to sue people for $9,800? And as for those changing rates, there was story just yesterday that JP Morgan/ Chase lost a case in the 9th cir. in NY (Barrer v. Chase Bank USA) where a judge said the bank failed to make "clear and conspicuous disclosure" of the annual percentage rates it could impose, as required under the federal Truth in Lending Act, by burying the reason for an increase in the fine print of a cardholder agreement.
But Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain, an appointee of President Ronald Reagan, wrote that Chase's justification for the rate increase appeared on pages 10 and 11 of the Barrers' card agreement, "five dense pages after the disclosure of the APR."

He said this was "buried too deeply in the fine print" for a reasonable cardholder to realize the bank could raise the APR not just for events of default, but for "any reason at all."

so maybe there's hope. I think Advanta's claim that TIL doesn't apply to biz card holders is just an opinion, and probably would not hold up in court.

Yeah, I have been dealing with them for a while. I haven't received any calls lately from anybody after a sent the debt validation letter. I want to try settling with them, but I am not sure how much to offer them.

All I can say is start low, say 10%. But its probably better if you wait until they call you.

Hey Tamtrav-
how much do you owe them?

It has come out to about $9,000 with interest and fees.

They just offered me $4,250. I can't do it, but I am affraid to put it off any longer. This is through NCB by the way. Advanta charged off my account a while ago. It looks like Advanta closed all their business accounts on March 30. Anybody know how that will affect things?

Have you validated the status of the account? Does Advanta still own it, or has it been sold off to a junk debt buyer? If NCB is a JDB, I wouldn't pay them anything. If a JDB sues you in court, they usually can't prove the case.

Does anybody know if NCB is a Junk Debt Buyer?

I just settled with JP Morgan Chase. I owed almost 15K, and they settled for $4400 or 33%.

Yes, I think NCB is a junk debt buyer. They bought my Advanta account.

Where are you at with NCB? Did you settle with them?

I haven't paid NCB anything. My policy with JDBs is don't pay them anything unless a court orders me to. They usually can't prove the case in court. Plus, I don't have anything to settle with. Bad economy plus becoming disabled = very little money.

How long have they been after you? Have you had to go to court on any of your debts yet. They guy I talked to said they could summon me to a court in Pennsylvania, but I have a feeling that is a scare tactic.

That's a BS scare tactic so don't fall for it. They have to sue you in your state and city. That's where the account was opened, and where the bills go. If Advanta is in Utah, and you live in Boston, for example, then Penn. law doesn't apply.

I only got a couple of letters from NCB, starting last summer. Unfortunately, I am being sued by 2 other creditors, for much smaller amounts than the Advanta account was. When it gets dangerous is when a law firm in your state, and especially near your location, gets an account.

Not necessarily. Chances are, JDB's, attorney's etc are counting on most people not showing up for a court date. Don't blow it off. Chances are they can't validate the debt, don't have any paperwork, ie a signed cardmember agreement from you, etc, and usually can't actually prove you owe them anything. There is info on the web about this, just google Debt Validation. Just like foreclsoures on homes these days. No one really knows who own how much of each property as the mortgages were packaged and sold off to numerous parties. All you have to say in court is: "show me the note." they can't, cuz they don't have the note and foreclsoure stops unless and until they can. Bad debt is packaed and sold the same way. multiple entities own pieces of it, or they own the debt, but can't prove it. Just saying they do doesn't cut it.

Did NCB ever sue you? How much are your balances with the ones that did and what credit card companies were they?

NCB by the way did send me a debt settlement letter.

what % did NCB offer you?

It was around 42.5% to 45% and of course they claim they never even go that low.

NCB has not sued me. The charged-off Advanta balance, after adding junk fees, was about $11K. The other two creditors which are suing me are for balances of about $6K and $2K. (I am obfuscating the details in case the creditors monitor this site.) I have a lot of other accounts, for similar or larger balances, with no lawsuits from them yet.

without giving away anything, who were the other two?

(obfuscated) Cittyskank and Gen Eclectric Mooney Bunk (Wallyworld card). Both represented by the same crooked law firm, which took both cases about the same time. There's something fishy about that, I think.

and are you going to court?

How far behind were you on them?

Yes, I am fighting them in court pro se. The law firm got both accounts when I was about 9 months behind on them.

Good for you! Go get 'em. Good luck.
Here's a useful link to someone who claims to have beaten three conampies, Pro Se, attempting to collect:
howtoanswerasummons.com/howtowinjunkdebtbuyerlawsuit.htm

Hey, does anybody know if I am in a better position to negotiate with a credit card company if they see that I sold my house or will that hurt me because it looks like I should have more funds to pay bills now?

Hard to say. A creditor factors in a lot of things when they consider settling. Like how much you owe them, how delinquent the account is , what state you live in , the other debts you owe that they see on your credit report , and your hardship and budget. These are just a few examples other things they look at before considering accepting a settlement offer.

a lot of home sellers today have little to no equity in their house when the sell, so no profit or cash is left after selling exprnses are paid. what matters is how much you owe and for how long.

I sold the last of my annuities for $7,000.00. I owe in cc debt about $30,000.00 to three cc companies. $9,000.00 of this is to advanta which is charging the largest interest. I am in a nonprofit debt payment program and have been paying religously for the last year. I am out of money except for my small pension once this is spent. I have heard that I cannot get a settlement unless I stop paying. Should I stop paying Advanta? What amount should I offer for a complete settlement? Other advise appreciated. Thanks

I sold the last of my annuities for $7,000.00. I owe in cc debt about $30,000.00 to three cc companies. $9,000.00 of this is to advanta which is charging the largest interest. I am in a nonprofit debt payment program and have been paying religously for the last year. I am out of money except for my small pension once this is spent. I have heard that I cannot get a settlement unless I stop paying. Should I stop paying Advanta? What amount should I offer for a complete settlement? Other advise appreciated. Thanks

I have been on this site since 11/08. I am still getting the calls from ADvanta and have now received a letter with a "model complaint" that they may file against me. Have they sold their accounts or has anyone else received this letter?
Thanks for your replies.

I also received a very official looking model complaint from Advanta back in February, and so far they haven't done anything more to me other than call every day. I've had three outsourced collection agencies on their behalf....Allied International, Advanced Call Center Technologies, and Phillips & Cohen. Phillips & Cohen has been the most recent, and they stated that Advanta still owns the account. So apparently they haven't sold it off yet.

I received a "sample complaint" today - I'm in TX and to make things interesting, I have the Advanta card but I don't have a small business - years ago I accepted the card but never had a business - we had a job loss and the account is over 180 days past due - they wouldn't work with me when I could pay and now I just can't - if I do, we don't eat basically - do they actually pursue judgements?

Is it true that Advanta can only settle for 70%? They told me this is the best they can do.. not a penny less.

They are lying. They told me today that they don't even do settlements because their investors won't let them and if they gave settlements they would have to make up the difference. I had a good chuckle over that one.

They settle for all different amount. the more you owe, the lower percentage settlement they will take. Also, they probably won't sue-they'll sell it to a bad debt buyer who might. but you can usually win cases against them pretty easily as they have anyth

I have been speaking to different Advanta account managers with very little options to lower payments on my closed business account. (I too have had all the same experiences with collection calls, but eventually they went to "Senior Portfolio Managers" who speak more considerately and only call once a week.) My best offers were never as good as my original account rate of 7.99%, and never lowered my payments to something I could actually do. I am now over 90 days behind and today is the first time a real offer was given to settle my account. It was for 50%, but no reduction of accumulated fees. I want to hold off for a better settlement or lower payments. I am hopeful, however, because they had not given me any settlement option before this. They always threaten that this is the final chance to work with them before it goes to legal, but it has happened each time that someone new calls me the next week. I really don't see how I can do anything with this offer for now.

My only regret is I only owe these assholes 3500, I wish I would have maxed out the 30 grand when I had the chance. Lowlife scum.

FDIC has told them to stop taking in deposits ... wouldn't let them settle some of the debts they owe by paying bondholders pennies on the dollar. They just went from 400 employees down to 200. If you check your local court's docket, you'll probably see that they haven't filed any lawsuits against debtors this year, even though their default rate hit over 20% in April and has undoubtedly gone higher since they cut off new charges. As for selling to junk debt buyers ... historically JDBs would pay about 7 cents on the dollar, but that figure has been dropping like a rock as the supply of defaulted debt skyrocketed and the JDBs themselves are having increasing trouble collecting on what they already own in the way of defaulted debt. Meanwhile, if the issuer goes under the JDB knows that in the future it may have trouble buying the "media" (supporting documentation) from the issuer (it usually goes for about $20 a page) that would be needed to approach having adequate proof in court (technically unless the JDB brings in a records custodian of the issuer to testify that the documentation is true and accurate it should not qualify for the business records exemption from the hearsay rule, but courts aren't necessarily always sticklers for that one). So to the extent they're not too broke to buy, JDBs have plenty of other issuers who probably will be around in the future and who have plenty of bad paper to sell. Do you think they want Advanta's stuff where the primary obligor (the small business) is likely out of business and they have to prove up not just the debt but the personal guarantee of the debtor? Advanta quite likely *can't* sell its debt at anything approaching the going rate, and the going rate is probably less than 5 cents on the dollar right now.

Donald Rumsfeld said "Weakness is provocative ... when people see an area of weakness they will take advantage of it." Does Advanta sound strong to anyone?

When Advanta fails, the FDIC will have to sell the debt for a penny on the dollar (or less) to one or more JDBs. That's a ways down the road, however.

Very interesting......

Guest--thanks for your summary...very helpful!

I had to close my business and have $60K in cc debt; I owe Advanta about $13K. My Advanta a/c is with a CA right now. I've offered them 23% ($3K) but they want 50%. Do you think I should contact Advanta directly and offer them the 23%? In light of this recent staff reduction and obvious financial ruins I'm thinking I should LOWER my offer!

I've tried calling Advanta in the past and got transferred to the CA. However, this was before they laid off half of their workforce. Has anyone settled with Advanta within the past week or so? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I owe advanta approx 3.6K, last time I was able to make a partial payment was 90 days ago. Tried in vain to get Advanta to work with me (34.99% APR!!) but they only offered a "settlement" payoff which I did not have. ( and still do not have ability to make a lump sum payment)

My business (sales) went all the way to zero for about 7 months late 08 early 09.


I still have time to send the CA a Request a validation of debt. Should this be my next step?
All my other CC debtors have been more than reasonable in working with me, putting me on financial hardship programs that work with my budget.

Now its with a CA who is also not offering any kind of payment plan that's going to work for me.

Tried yesterday to talk directly to Advanta but get referred back to CA.

I am back now to daily "urgent you return call" phone calls from CA

I still have time to send the CA a Request a validation of debt. Should this be my next step?

Any advice would be appreciated.

PS CA is PBC

Now approaches 57%.

At the end of July the San Francisco News reported that Advanta seems to have embarked on a desperate gambit to sell widows and orphans investment notes by placing ads offering them in major newspapers. The offer has apparently been scrapped since the press got onto it.