What's with the attorneys, anyway?

A collection agency needs to be licensed in Michigan to collect from there.

I just got off the phone with the Michigan Practices Board and was told that an out-of-state CA DOES NOT have to be licensed in MI if they are collecting for an out-of-state creditor(in this case, themselves). An attorney can represent them under his License with the Michigan Bar.

An attorney is an attorney, just have different practices, but there are some who dedicate themselves to collection practices. It is unfortunate that your state doesn't force out of state collectors to hold a license, but they still have to follow federal laws and you can still demand validation of the debt. I would DV both the attorney and the CA. Many CAs use lawyers for the sole purpose of intimidating someone into paying. Don't let them scare you...even attorneys still have to follow debt collection laws.

I did just that..sent a DV letter CMRRR to both of them and received what looks to be a legit validation letter from the CA, (although they didn't provide any info on how they got from the original balance to what they are claiming I owe now), as well as the green card back. I'm puzzled however because I have not yet received the green card back from the attorney and he's only three hours away and it was mailed almost three weeks ago! What do you make of that?

It's still me... the above guest. My letter to both of them also contained a C&D request as well as my claim that the debt is past SOL. (I don't know if the CA is buying the SOL, though, otherwise why would the CA have bothered to send me a response?) Is that maybe why the attorney hasn't responded?

It could be. I am curious on the validation they sent you? What exactly was it they sent? It sounds like they simply generated a paper with the information on it such as original creditor and how much the balance is? If this is the case that is in no way shape or form proper validation. It wouldn't hold up in court in the discovery phase either. For one, the validation has to come from the original creditor. All the paper is from the CA is the same information they been telling you.....that doesn't prove a darn thing.

Oh you especially want to pay attention to the amount they are claiming now. The fact that they have tacked on extra money means they are either trying to charge interest, or some other fee. They pretty much can't do that unless it says so in the signed contract. You should send them another DV, explaining that what they sent is not proper validation, that a judge would laugh that out of the courtroom. Demand again for all the proper documentation, including a copy of the signed contract giving them the right to charge anything over the initial balance and a complete accounting of how they got to the sum they say you owe.

[quote=Guest]I'm puzzled however because I have not yet received the green card back from the attorney and he's only three hours away and it was mailed almost three weeks ago! What do you make of that?[/quote]

You can track the progress of certified mail online. Go to usps.com, and click on 'track and confirm.'

Thanks unclewulf...I checked. All it says is that my letter was accepted on (date I mailed it) from (my local post office) and that no other info was available. Kinda makes it sound like they haven't delivered it yet...or found the recipient (the attorney). I know the attorney is legit...I checked that online too. As far as the validation goes...the claim is that this debt is from an old credit card account...they charge interest! So can't the CA continue charging interest as well?

Thanks, too, goldenbast. I guess if I continue to fight this, I'm not sure if I should deal with the CA or the attorney...or both. I don't want to keep paying for cmrrr if the usps can't find the attorney...or maybe it would be to my advantage? At one point I tried to call the attorney on the phone...just to see if the phone no. on his letterhead was legit....'your call cannot be completed as dialed, please check the number and try your call again'...hmmmm?

Monday morning, call your local postmaster. Give him the certified mail number, and inquire as to the status of it, and why it has not been either delivered or returned.

You might also want to inquire about doing your return receipts electronically, it is cheaper and no chance of the little green card getting lost in the mail...they scan the info and send you an email pdf copy of it. You can print out a copy and save a copy to your computer..rather nice.

The CA can only continue to charge interest if there is a provision in the contract that allows for this, under information if the account is defaulted. The key here is that the CA, not you, has to prove this in the form of a copy of the contract signed by you. If they don't have it, they can't prove you were the card holder and they can't collect. What exactly did they send you? Was it from the original creditor, IE the credit card company, on their own letterhead? Or was it printed out on the letterhead of the collection company, or no letterhead at all?

OK, I'll try to make a long story short.....
1. Inititial contact from attorney
a. regular mail, his letterhead
b. you owe Bank X $$$$$.
c. all the legal lingo...'you have 30 days to dispute...this is an attempt to collect a debt...CA name and address, etc.
2. My response, within 30 days, regular mail (paraphrased!)
a. I dispute this
b. No knowledge of cc with Bank X
c. What the h...l are you talking about, must be fraud or a major mistake. Provide proof. I'll provide an affidavit if requested.
3. Letter no. 2, from attorney, regular mail, 30 days later
a. 'here's the info I got from CA'
b. enclosed a copy of a final charge-off statement from OC(Bank Y).
c. letter stated that Bank Y was acquired by Bank X

Note: this statement copy was addressed to both me and my ex at my address after our divorce. Never had a cc with Bank Y, and never got the statement in the mail at the time, but they didn't have my address exactly right. Ignored it, not a legit validation.
4. my response to the attorney, regular mail, 90+ days later
a. you still have not provided legit validation
b. account was fraudulently opened by ex, admitted to in court, Bank Y was notified.
c. show me a contract with my signature
5. Received letter from attorney, regular mail
a. enclosed three copies of consent judgment with case number. ( it's legit, I checked)
b. asked me to sign and return
6. (I'm really pissed now!) Sent letter to CA and attorney, CMRRR

So much for long story, short....sorry.. but that's the basic history of this. You know the rest...dv from CA was basic, didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

Sorry.. to answer your question, The CA response to my CMRRR was on their letterhead. OC listed is Bank X.

Validation has to be gotten from the original creditor. A statement or ledger produced in-house by a CA or law firm proves exactly nothing.

The photo-copy looked like an actual statement from Bank Y, but I had never seen it before. Had Bank Y's letterhead on it. Says on the bottom 'This Statement is a Facsimile-not an original.

let me chime in if you will.that is not validation.re-send your letter punched up with the fact that is not validation.send that CMRRR as well.

To be clear... the CA sent me a verification letter on their letterhead....the attorney sent me the copy of the Bank Y statement. God..who should I deal with here????

send the letter to both.they both can't collect the same debt.make both prove they can collect the debt.

Well, if it goes to court, I'll be dealing with the attorney. The CA is out of state. Seems to me, though that there's not very good coummunication between the two of them. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and vice versa.