Lawyers As Collectors

exactly right goldenbast.i have said that to a couple of these clowns.let's not forget the rent-a-lawyers either.you know,the CA'S that pay a laywer to use his office to sound like lawyers and not a CA.alot of newbies to the law game are sued out of business because of the CA.

Well on the letter for the attorney who is "representing" LVNV Funding he states the debt,who it is owed to, the amount and so on.THEN on the letter they state I have 30 days to dispute the debt and bla bla and then under that the attorney who is representing LVNV Funding, states " Please be advised that this is an attempt to collect a debt, any information obtained will be used for that purpopse, and this communication is sent to you in our capapcity as a debt collector".

So the attorney is considered a "debt collector" as stated under the fdcpa and the notice" this is a debt collector" is confusing to the fact they are claiming to merely be representing the CA, yet being a debt collector they fall under the FDCPA rules, they are no longer exempt because they are not just "lawyers" representing the CA to collect the debt??The attorney also has his personal signature on the letter.Am I understanding this mess right?
How and to what reference can I use in my answer to my summons to use this as maybe a defense or counter claim? Man wish I could find an attorney in my area I know I have a good case but just getting too complicated for me to handle in court alone!!

The problem is MOST of the attorneys who only collect debt say they are collecting for a client when in fact they are collecting for themselves. Examples:

Massachusetts: Lustig Glaser and Wilson sued me. Kenneth C. Wilson said he is collecting for LVNV Funding. In fact LVNV Funding sold the debt to Kenneth C. Wilson's other business HEMLOCK GORGE HOLDINGS, LTD. who also runs from the same address. He said his law firm has a collection department but it is a different business all together.

Search the massachusetts corporations and you will see what I mean. It even says in his filings " Investments, purchase and collections of accounts" They do this to try and get around the law and it is working.

Most likely when you are contacted by an attorney on a debt, they have a backdoor collection firm you will never hear from or know about. But if you investigate them, you might have a chance of beating them.

To the guest asking about LVNV:

When you got the letter, did you send a DV within that 30 day allotment? I think you could use that letter to show that the lawyer was acting as a CA, if they try to say they do not need to follow collection rules, then ask why they bothered to put the 30 day dispute window on the letter? I bet the judge would even like to hear the answer to that. But if you never DVed them, I am not sure it can help you at this point, you can at least demand validation documentation in discovery.

To the other guest:
Unfortunately so many people still don't understand or know about their rights in collection situations and when they see that a lawyer is handling the case, they get scared and that is exactly what the CA (or even the law office that owns the debt) hopes for. All we can do at this point is keep educating the masses and hope that someday most everyone knows their rights.

goldenbast: I never ever received any letters from LVNV themselves.The first letter I got after northland group could not validate the debt and sold it off, was from this attorney.The letter DID state they were retained by LVNV Funding to collect the debt but also DID state the notice was from a "debt collector".I DID send over night mail with sign/delivery confirmation and have green card, a debt validation request and that I disputed the debt.I sent the validation letter request to the attorney once I got the letter so I have proof, and it was within the 30 days.BUT again, the attorney claims they are NOT under normal fdcpa rules because they are an attorney representing LVNV!!! Therefor they claim they did NOT/DO NOT have to validate anything, and they did not, and instead sued me!! So why then put I had a right to request validation within 30 days if I disputed the debt if they claim they do not have to provide validation??? Why state your a debt collector if you are not?? Everything I find states
???? 58????????70????????15. Definition of collection agency and collection agency business.
(c) "Collection agency" does not mean:
(8) Attorneys????????at????????law handling claims and collections in their own name and not operating a collection agency under the management of a layman

So I am not sure as to can I file a counterclaim against attorney for violating the FDCPA since they DID claim they were a debt collector and did not calidate the debt or not because they DID also state they were rerpresenting LVNV Funding?

Appears to me also that the attorneys are getting away with this and have found a new legal loop to collect on debt and claim they are a debt collector yet NOT have to follow the FDCPA rules.That just is infuritating!

IMO the Debt Attorneys are finding new ways to collect and especially doing it in small claims court. The stupid courts are falling for their bogus claims and will direct you to "work it out" with the "collector". The attorney I am dealing with now state they are a debt collection agency. I am now wondering if they are violating laws by presenting themselves as a legal attorney office but are also debt collectors.

Case law generally finds that collection attornies are within the scope of a "debt collector" by definition, and therefore have to follow the fdcpa.

This is from an article I have by Daniel Edelman - from Edelman, Combs, Latturner & Goodwin, who are pretty famous class-action attornies that go after FDCPA violations:

char62, as said in Debtcruncher's post attorneys who are collecting debt also come under the purview of collection laws of USA, fdcpa. You may go through the fdcpa laws which restricts certain actions of collection agencies. Laws are definitely with you and you can save yourself from unlawful collection agency harassment by knowing the fdcpa laws.

Countersue them for ignoring the DV request and claiming to be above the law. Also demand documentation in discovery and if they still don't produce it, file a motion to compel it....if they don't at the least the case can be dismissed and at most the lawyer found in contempt.

Simply point out to the judge that this lawyer called to collect upon the debt, therefor they are acting as a collector for the client. Use the letter they sent that says *this notice is from a debt collector..blah blah and tell the judge this lawyer is trying to get around the law because no documentation for this supposed debt actually exists.

A key point in this argument is an attorney hired to pursue collection via suit is generally not a collector, that said however they must provide the same level of proof in court as a collector does in validation. Attorneys who buy debt or attempt collection calls are most assuredly acting as debt collects, even if they ultimately file suit. This is opposed to the attorney hired to pursue a lawsuit in an attempt to collect.

If you are sued then you should be prepared to mount a credible case in court. remember in civil court it is the preponderance of the evidence that wins (he/she with the most proof wins)

OK..........so, II,.......IS there a 'BIG' difference if 'they' say they are the collector OR the attorney, themselves? If you ask EITHER one for a validation, they HAVE to give you one,..do they not? How can they LEGALLY sue you if they provide NO validation, on an account that they claim to have?

I never had this particular problem even from LVNV. They did the same thing, sick their lawyer on me, but what I did was send a DV to LVNV and I sent a letter to the lawyer telling them I DVed their client and was awaiting documentation. Not much the lawyer could do at that point since if they sued, they did so acting under LVNV's direction and therefore violated. As a side note on that case, they did continue collection activity and it went all the way to where I filed suit. The lawyer actually called me and asked me if I was insane to be sueing for so much over a debt under 200 bucks. I simply responded for them to go look up federal and Texas law I offered a very low settlement to make them go away...$1000..payable to ME with the account permanently closed and removed from the reports, to not be sold or transferred. The lawyer called me back almsot immediately (like a day or two later) and accepted the settlement..so I am living proof that LVNV and their scummy lawyers don't always win..in point of fact they ended up paying ME.

That is the only way I can see that possibly you lost your case, is that you DVed the lawyer when you should have DV'ed their client....I can see a lawyer snaking around a DV by claiming they are not the owner of the account, but that is still rather iffy if they call to collect upon the debt, they are are subject to the same laws, they only way around it is if they are not attempting to collect, but to inform the debtor they are sueing them..but wht bother? Why not just sue? It is an excuse to attempt to intimidate the debtor and get payment.

sd, there is a difference between filing suit and winning it. Anyone can file a lawsuit all you need is the filing paper work and the fee. If you don;t properly respond and defend, they win without having to show little if any proof. The point of asking for debt valdation is to dtermine whether or not their claim is valid. in a suit you have the right to make them prove the same thing. If they can, then it really does not matter that they didn't do in when you asked with respect to winning or losing the suit. you may be able to get a judge to order terms more favorable to you but that may be it.

Typically law firms that do collections do not bother to be licensed as attorneys in every state they collect.. some even don't bother to be licensed as collectors. Most states require that attorneys filing suit be licensed in the statethe suit is filed. the way you make an attorney who has filed suit validate is to raise those questions in your answer/notice of appearance in the suit.

Goldenblast handled it the right way, the attorney was informed as to the action stated and ultimately when it was put up or shut up time, they realized that they would likely not do well in court and setttled.

I'm a bit confused. If I have a particular cc debt that is correct, should I still ask for a DV? Is this to make sure that the attorney who is trying to collect actually holds the debt?

I have a $6400 cc debt with Citi that has now gone to Lustig and Glaser. They got it on Sept 15. What are my options?

yes a da mangement in georgia called me up yester day sid i had a payday loan out back in 2008 and whats 730.50 dollars in 72 hours here is the deal i didnt take one out
they haveall my information excepet the right bank numbers i called the att general and filed a complaint my question is should i call them and tell them i filed a complanint and can they still take me to court if i dont send them the money i shouldnt be liabile for something i didnt do

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