Why pay any debt collector ?

that is the same premise that FEDERAL debt relief SYSYEM used to scam countless people.sorry,but i don't think that will work.i don't like what the credit card companies are doing either,but until the gov't does something to change the rules that will never work as a defense,or an excuse not to pay if you owe.

Well, it has already worked one time for me...I cahlleged the credit card company to prove thet used their own money, rather than the money resulting from the sale of my signature. I challenged them on the basis that they never made FULL DISCLOSURE and that they never offered a "bi-lateral contract," SIGNED by their officers providing fair and equal consideration....I also asked them to provide me with a copy of their corporate charter and reference the fedrral laws which allowed them to loan "credit"...they couldn't or wouldn't do it. I alos advised them that if they could offer a validated rebuttal to my claim, that I would pay all LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE obligations. They never did, and that's been months ago...not another word or another Bill from them.
I beleive that if we are going to 'TALK THE TALK" we need to stand tall and "WALK THE WALK"...stand up for our beliefs.

No one scammed me my friend, I never paid anyone one red cent to do this for me...I did it on my own...the only cost was submitting by certified mail about 5 bucks and change.

Regardless of what you believe...it has worked in my one test case. And if in fact the card companies are using application signatures to generate money...then who owes what and to whom ?

oh really?how do you know that they won't sue?they still can and probably will.before you hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.think about that.if your debt isn't out of the SOL it is still fair game.the fact that they haven't responded means nothing.

Sure thery can sue...anyone can sue anyone at any given time.

The point I'm making is that they will need to prove their case in court if they sue...that they did not violate FEDERAL LAW or Contract law in this matter.( which requires FULL DISCLOSURE...and which they never provided)

I'm not going to argue with anyone, mod or otherwise in this regard...too much like arguing with a TV...and what's the point...just sharing my experiences with you that's all.

Take it or leave it as you will...

Anyway, I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuit to become debt free.

good now scram.your point of view will only confuse people.

Hmmm, it's obvious I have hit a nerve ! Maybe I am onto something ! Are you sure you are not affiliated with the debt collectors in some manner ?

This sounds like the same argument that people use to explain why they do not owe and the government cannot force then to pay taxes. Ask Wesley Snipes how well that worked for him.

bottom line is this--when you sign a credit card agreement, there doesnt necessarily need to be a federal law allowing the company to enter into such an agreement. There only needs to be NO law NOT allowing them to do so.

rancher--understand this--the laws in this country were purposely set up to give the federal government specific powers, and to give more powers to the individual states than to the fed. This is why there are so many things that have no federal law pertaining to them--the federal government was restricted by the constitution so that they could only make laws in certain areas. If the topic in question was not in one of those specific areas, then the fed could not make a law about it.

this is basic contract law--you can write up a contract and enter into a written agreement with someone for just about anything. And just because they cannot say "here is the federal law that allows me to do this", that does not in any way void the agreement that you signed in good faith. NOW, if you can produce a federal law that says that they CANNOT do it, then you would have a case. But you got lucky once....count that as a blessing and nothing else. hell, you might not have even gotten lucky, they may have just decided that they didnt want to deal with someone who thinks he knows more than he really does, and so they shut up about it for now. whats to keep them from calling you again in six months? To me, that isnt lucky, it's postponing the inevitable.

I took a little look around your site before....it puzzled me the way you used some of the information you have compiled. For example, you at one point are talking about banks--first-party to the agreement, and in the very next sentence you bring up 15USC 1692g...the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. The fdcpa does NOT apply to that bank you talk about getting a loan from because they are not a third party debt collector, which is the only group that is governed by the FDCPA. your informaton is all over the place, while the FDCPA plays an important role when it comes to debt, that is NOT the place or time for you to be throwing it in like that.

You then mentioned the UCC, Article 3, section 603, and you claim on your website the following:



But you actually left out something from that law....here is the actual statute in question, for comparison....


In other words, if you owe $2000, and you offer to pay off the debt by sending them $150, then the whole debt isnt discharged, which is what you said. the only discharge that can be enforced according to that statute is the exact amount that you offered and that they refused. Additionally, this is the UCC--and while most states follow it, NOT ALL OF THEM DO. Some states use their own laws for such things while others have adopted the UCC as their standard. Youre giving out incomplete advice in some cases, and in other cases, potentially bad advice. I do not doubt your motives, but its time for you to face facts. This is nothing more than an attempt on your part to get out of paying a debt that you legitimately signed your name to in the first place, and thats NOT what this forum is about. If you signed the credit agreement, then pay your bill, its that simple. We do NOT advocate people skipping out on legitimate debts here. you signed an agreement, and then you didnt pay for whatever reason. and then, when they came calling, looking for their money, you tried to find a way within the law to wiggle out of the obligation you AGREED TO when you SIGNED that agreement.

why don't you ask zisky,or better yet ceo/creditwrench about me?i have butted heads with so many trolls,shills,bobo's and people affiliated with FDRS.your stance makes no sense and will only get you taken to the woodshed in court.FDRS using the same premise as you have gotten a whole lot of people sued into bankruptcy.before you post more stupidity rancher.know who your dealing with.

First of all. please understand that I have never looked at the website you refer to FDRS...something like that.

Secondly, I would never endorse evading income tax.

Heck, my only point in even making posts here to begin with is to get different vierwpoints and share my experience.

Finally, Paul...I'm not the kind to engage in sensless debates or arguments especially in chat rooms or forums. On the otherhand if you as an esteemed Mod get your jollys in doing so...knocking heads with trolls or whoever, go for it if it boosts your ego, my friend....yeah man...show 'em your stuff !

Best wishes my friend !

um, ok...."guest".....


I noticed that you had plenty to say to Paul, but nothing to say about the problems I noted with your reasoning and logic as you present it. I wonder why that is? maybe if you had something legitimate to say, you wouldnt have tried to go for what you perceived to be an easier target....

Best wishes my friend! :roll:

this mope keeps it up and they will find out the hard way.i'm no easy target.not by any means. :twisted: :twisted:

yeah, I know....

but it just makes me laugh, if he really wanted to show the integrity he claims to have he would have addressed my points. but thats ok....you can put a pig in a prom dress, but it will still oink....

it isnt worth arguing so you post under a different name just to argue some more? damn buddy ya got it bad....i aint kiddin ya!

dont they have hobbies where you come from? is this yer only entertainment after hours?

going nowhere went somewhere.to troll post heaven.i put your name out ziskster as an example of people who wish to sabotage posts,spread misinformation,and just plain be a troll.i hope my point is clear.