Is this response suitable ??
Date: Mon, 01/19/2009 - 06:53
C/O DEBT COLLECTOR (OR LAW OFFICE)
Subject: FILE NUMBER or ACCOUNT NUMBER ****************
CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT....Article Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
RESPONSE to your Claim, to be submitted to FEDERAL COURT or other courts of competent jurisdiction as may be necessary.
CEASE ALL COLLECTION ACTIVITY AND COMMUNICATION WITH US UNTIL YOU HAVE SATISFIED THE FOLLOWING, AS THIS MATTER IS IN DISPUTE.
THIS ALLEDGED DEBT IS HEREBY DISPUTED, PENDING COMPLETE AND ACCURATE VALIDATION THEREOF, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE "FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICE ACT" as enacted by the US SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, and passed into LAW by the CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
THEREFORE, you and your FIRM are hereby directed to submit the following in accordance with established law:
DEBT COLLECTOR DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
This statement and the answers contained herein may be used by Respondent, if necessary, in any court of competent jurisdiction, including FEDERAL COURT.
Notice: This Debt Collector Disclosure Statement is not a substitute for, nor the equivalent of, the hereinabove-requested verification of the record, i.e. “Confirmation of correctness, truth, or authenticity, by affidavit, oath, or deposition†(Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, 1990), re the alleged debt, and must be completed in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC §1692g, applicable portions of Truth in Lending (Regulation Z), 12 CFR 226, and demands as cited above Disputed Debt. Debt Collector must make all required disclosures clearly and conspicuously in writing re the following:
1. Name of Debt Collector:
...............................................................................................
2. Address of Debt Collector:
................................................................................................
3. Name of alleged Debtor:
................................................................................................
4. Address of alleged Debtor:
................................................................................................
5. Alleged Account Number:
................................................................................................
6. Alleged debt owed:
$...............................................................................................
7. Date alleged debt became payable:
.................................................................................................
8. Re this alleged account, what is the name and address of the alleged Original Creditor, if different from Debt Collector?
................................................................................................
.....................................
9. Re this alleged account, if Debt Collector is different from alleged Original Creditor, does Debt Collector have a bona fide affidavit of assignment to enter into alleged original contract between alleged Original Creditor and alleged Debtor?
YES NO
10. Did Debt Collector purchase this alleged account from the alleged Original Creditor? YES NO N/A (Not Applicable)
11. If applicable, date of purchase of this alleged account from alleged Original Creditor, and purchase amount:
Date:...................... Amount: $.........................................................
12. Did Debt Collector purchase this alleged account from a previous debt collector? YES NO N/A
13. If applicable, date of purchase of this alleged account from previous debt collector, and purchase amount:
Date: ........................... Amount: $.........................................
14. Regarding this alleged account, Debt Collector is currently the:
Owner; (b) Assignee; (c) Other – explain: ..........................................
.................................................................................................
15. What are the terms of the transfer of rights re this alleged account? .................................................................
16. If applicable, transfer of rights re this alleged account was executed by the following method:
(a) Assignment; (b) Negotiation; (c) Novation; (d) Other – explain:........................................................................................
...................................................................................................
17. If the transfer of rights re this alleged account was by assignment, was there consideration? YES NO N/A
18. What is the nature and cause of the consideration cited in # 17 above?..........................................................................................
....................................................................................................
....................................................................................................
19. If the transfer of rights re this alleged account was by negotiation, was the alleged account taken for value?
YES NO N/A
20. What is the nature and cause of any value cited in #19 above? .................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
21. If the transfer of rights re this alleged account was by novation, was consent given by alleged Debtor? YES NO N/A
22. What is the nature and cause of any consent cited in #21 above? ....................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
....................................................................................................
.....................................................................................................
23. Has Debt Collector provided alleged Debtor with the requisite verification of the alleged debt as required by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act? YES NO
24. Date said verification cited above in # 23 was provided alleged Debtor: ......................................................................................
25. Was said verification cited above in # 23 in the form of a sworn or affirmed oath, affidavit, or deposition? YES NO
26. Verification cited above in # 23 was provided alleged Debtor in the form of: OATH AFFIDAVIT DEPOSTION
27. Does Debt Collector have knowledge of any claim(s)/defense(s) re this alleged account? YES NO
28. What is the nature and cause of any claim(s)/defense(s) re this alleged account?...........................................
.................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
29. Was alleged Debtor sold any products/services by Debt Collector? YES NO
30. What is the nature and cause of any products/services cited above in # 29? ........................................................
.....................................................................................................
.....................................................................................................
31. Does there exist a verifiable, bona fide, original commercial instrument between Debt Collector and alleged Debtor containing alleged Debtor’s bona fide signature? YES NO
32. What is the nature and cause of any verifiable commercial instrument cited above in # 31? ......................................................................
...................................................................................................
....................................................................................................
33. Does there exist verifiable evidence of an exchange of a benefit or detriment between Debt Collector and alleged Debtor? YES NO
34. What is the nature and cause of this evidence of an exchange of a benefit or detriment as cited above in # 33? ...................................
.................................................................................................
.................................................................................................
35. Does any evidence exist of verifiable external act(s) giving the objective semblance of agreement between Debt Collector and alleged Debtor? YES NO
36. What is the nature and cause of any external act(s) giving the objective semblance of agreement from #35 above? ..............................
.....................................................................................................
37. Have any charge-offs been made by any creditor or debt collector regarding this alleged account? YES NO
38. Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor or debt collector regarding this alleged account? YES NO
39. Have any tax write-offs been made by any creditor or debt collector regarding this alleged account? YES NO
40. Have any tax deductions been made by any creditor or debt collector regarding this alleged account? YES NO
41. Have any judgments been obtained by any creditor or debt collector regarding this alleged account? YES NO
42. At the time the alleged original contract was executed, were all parties apprised of the meaning of the terms and conditions of said alleged original contract? YES NO
43. At the time the alleged original contract was executed, were all parties advised of the importance of consulting a licensed legal professional before executing the alleged contract? YES NO
44. At the time the alleged original contract was executed, were all parties apprised that said alleged contract was a private credit instrument? YES NO
Debt Collector’s failure, both intentional and otherwise, to complete/answer points “1†through “44†above and return this Debt Collector Disclosure Statement, as well as provide Respondent with the requisite verification validating the hereinabove - referenced alleged debt, constitutes Debt Collector’s tacit agreement that Debt Collector has no verifiable, lawful, bona fide claim re the hereinabove-referenced alleged account, and that Debt Collector tacitly agrees that Debt Collector waives all claims against Respondent and indemnifies and holds Respondent harmless against any and all costs and fees heretofore and hereafter incurred and related re any and all collection attempts involving the hereinabove-referenced alleged account.
Declaration: The Undersigned hereby declares under penalty of perjury of the laws of this State that the statements made in this Debt Collector Disclosure Statement are true and correct in accordance with the Undersigned’s best firsthand knowledge and belief.
____________________________________ ____________________________________
Date Printed name of Signatory
____________________________________ ____________________________________
Official Title of Signatory Authorized Signature for Debt Collector
Debt Collector must timely complete and return this Debt Collector Disclosure Statement, along with all required documents referenced in said Debt Collector Disclosure Statement. Debt Collector’s claim will not be considered if any portion of this Debt Collector Disclosure Statement is not completed and timely returned with all required documents, which specifically includes the requisite verification, made in accordance with law and codified in the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act at 15 USC §1692 et seq., and which states in relevant part: “A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt,†which includes “the false representation of the character, or legal status of any debt,†and “the threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken,†all of which are violations of law. If Debt Collector does not respond as required by law, Debt Collector’s claim will not be considered and Debt Collector may be liable for damages for any continued collection efforts, as well as any other injury sustained by Respondent. Please allow thirty (30) days for processing after Respondent’s receipt of Debt Collector’s response.
TITLE 42 US CODE, SECTION 408 (a)(8), states that:
" WHOEVER DISCLOSES, USES OR COMPELS the disclosure of the SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER of any person in violation of the LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES, shall be guilty of A FELONY, and upon conviction thereof, shall be fined, under TITLE 18 or imprisioned for not more than 5 years or both."
You FIRM has 30 days to reply, or be in default, If you cannot or unwilling to provide us with the above disclosure, you are to IMMEDIATELY WITHDRAW ANY CLAIM YOU MAY PRESUME TO HAVE, and are FOREVER BANNED FROM THIS POINT FORWARD AND FOREVER MORE from contacting us again either by
letter or by phone, pursuant to our filing for legal remedy with the ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE in your state as well as mine. We will also consider filing a complaint with the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION for either INDIVIDUAL or CLASS ACTION remedy.
We may also submit our file to our US Congressman in Washington, DC, and legal staff, for their review and direct intervention with their direct contacts within the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION as well as the US Department of Justice for legal remedy as might be deemed appropriate.
You are hereby on notice, govern yourselves accordingly.
Sincerely,
Your name
Address
Copy: Legal File
As an answer to a dunning letter? You'll get 1-6 and 8. The on
As an answer to a dunning letter? You'll get 1-6 and 8. The only way you'll see anything else on your list is in a courtroom.
fdcpa doesn't require them to answer all those questions, and th
fdcpa doesn't require them to answer all those questions, and they're not going to. All the FDCPA requires is "verification" of the account. We can debate what constitutes verification, because everyone on this site seems to have different opinions. But that doesn't mean they have to answer every question you ask.
I know where that list will be filed. Honestly, most of
I know where that list will be filed.
Honestly, most of this will be ignored and rightly so, particularly you putting conditions on them for not responding.
LOL soaplady I was going to say that too. If I received it, I w
LOL soaplady I was going to say that too. If I received it, I would throw it in the circular file.
OK, now my question is: If they aren't going to answer all these
OK, now my question is: If they aren't going to answer all these questions, or will only answer 1-6 and 8, then how can the CA actually prove this debt is yours?
Granted, i agree there may be just a wee bit too many questions in this sample letter; however, how does the CA establish this was a debt you actually agreed to take on and the proof I should pay the CA and not the OC if the debt is in fact a valid one?
Does it take, as NASCAR_Devil states, a trip to court in order to have the CA forced to produce this proof? If they have the proof all along, then what is so difficult about providing it when requested during validation by the debtor?
I'm sorry something on a company letterhead telling me I owe x.xx dollars and to make it payable to ABC CA, is not good enough for me. If that were all that was needed then I could just sit around the house, all day long, making letters and sending them out to people telling them they owe me money, even if they don't.
Is my question making sense?
I guess I'm trying to get it cleared in my head because there ar
I guess I'm trying to get it cleared in my head because there are so many differing opinions as to what validation is.
Hell, I asked for validation from a CA and got that "validation type" information on a letterhead. The only problem, it was on some completely different CA's letterhead. I mean, couldn't they have done a little "CTRL-C/CTRL-V" and move all the information to their own letterhead at least?
I wrote them back and told them how stupid that looked by them submitted verification with another CA's name on it.
I wonder if their failure to respond to this letter would hold u
I wonder if their failure to respond to this letter would hold up in court. I mean, I would send it to them knowing they probably would not answer it and then use it against them. Make sense?
It would be nice if they would answer the questions but I doubt
It would be nice if they would answer the questions but I doubt they would. It looks more like something you would use in court maybe to cross examine them or in discovery phase?
I would maybe use that letter, or a form of it during discovery.
I would maybe use that letter, or a form of it during discovery...that may make them sweat a little, since they would have to take it seriously in that case.
Throw it in the "circular file " ???
I submit that much of the garbage one might reciev form unscruplous debt collectors should also be thrown in that same file. However, If we send them a letter such as the one posted above, it will certainly place them on notice that the alledged debtor is serious about the matter, and the debtor could use it in his defense in court...
The debt collector is aware that proper validation is a legal requirement...might as well be thorugh in your demands and let them reply as they will !
Quote:However, If we send them a letter such as the one posted a
Quote:
However, If we send them a letter such as the one posted above, it will certainly place them on notice that the alledged debtor is serious about the matter, and the debtor could use it in his defense in court... |
All it tells the collector is that the debtor is copying letters off the internet and has no clue what true validation is. Most collectors would see this type of debtor as a nutcase.
Many letters regarding "TRUE VALIDATION"
are posted here in this forum as well as other legal forums , and I am grateful for this, as it certainly is informative for the debtor on how to structure a VALIDATION LETTER, as well as CEASE AND DESIST LETTERS. No doubt debtors , LAW FIRMS or DEBT COLLECTION AGENCYS are now on a level playing field ....Thanks to valuable sources of information sources, such as this forum, and I'm sure this has caused great consternation among those guys.. In the past, many debtors had no idea of the laws or methods to use, pretty much at their mercy......but the table has now been turned !!!
Well they can think whatever the heck they want; however, if the
Well they can think whatever the heck they want; however, if they receive any type of validation request (even if it is the "War and Peace" sized one the OP posted) they need to take it seriously and not ignore it. I have to wonder how much they would laugh at it if they did go to court and the debtor proved they sent it to the CA and the CA didn't take it seriously and completely ignored it? Then had nothing to validate that alleged debt in the same court.
Can you say "Motion to dismiss with prejudice?"
I think it would be worse for the debtor to just ignore the CA and then be dragged into court and have nothing to show that they even attempted to address the debt. Even if they sent the lengthy one, and the CA just laughed it off, it's better than sending nothing at all.
I'm sure most CA's are banking on the debtor just ignoring them to start with and then not showing up for court. So they can get the all coveted "default judgment."
I'm sorry for jesting that the letter should be thrown in the ga
I'm sorry for jesting that the letter should be thrown in the garbage. A debtor does certainly have the right to request validation, and a CA should be able to prove assignment/ownership of the debt as well as any evidence of indebtedness that creates the debt.
I take for granted that I have never had any CA trying to collect money from me that I never actually owed. Anytime a CA contacted me in the past, I knew that I owed the balance and I knew that they were rightful in trying to collect on it. Therefore I never felt the need to "play games" or send any type of letter disputing that I actually owed it; and when I finally saved up enough money I called them and settled. I am glad to say I paid off all my collections 3 years ago and have been flawless since.
On the contrary, and from a creditor standpoint, I receive letters like these all the time from my own customers. I suppose a CA is different -- but in my case, these are customers who came into my office, smiled in my face and shook my hand, took a check, and then called me a motherf* when I called them about a past-due payment..... then a year down the line I'm receiving letters like this claiming they never took a loan and spewing all sorts of legal jargon to try to get out of repaying it.
Granted I would be considered an OC not a CA, so I could legally throw it in the garbage without responding. BUT in all cases I receive such a letter requesting proof they owe the debt, I nonetheless send them copies of their contract, credit application and account ledger and anything else they ask for. I actually would take my time to answer all those questions just to humor the person. However in my experience, 99% of the time the person still won't pay even after I send them everything they ask for. And so yes, I do consider these types of letters as a "joke."
Personally, if one of my customers wants a copy of their contract or loan documents, all they have to do is ask. They don't need to send me a whole bunch of legal jargon that they copied off the internet, which they probably don't even understand half of it.
And so again, I'm sorry for being flippant. But I honestly don't think people who use this sort of letter really want to see the proof that they owe the debt; rather they're just trying to get out of paying it.
Well, before I came to this website, I didn't even know what a D
Well, before I came to this website, I didn't even know what a DV letter was or what it was for. It has certainly come in handy over the past year or so, though.
At one point, I had 4 different CA's contact me regarding a debt (I do admit I owed the debt) listing 4 different amounts due. All within a few weeks of each other; like weeks, not months. I got the first letter, then a week later the second letter, and the third and fourth letter within days of the second.
I had a pretty good idea of what I owed, and the amounts each CA listed was off from that amount. One of the CA's even gave me a "special" settlement offer which was a few dollars within the amount I figured I owed, while the amount they claimed I really owed was about twice that amount. The catch to their "special" offer was that I had to get my payment to them within a week. That week was within my 30-day right to dispute period. How convenient.
Can you say "overshadowing" boys and girls?
Now I know I owed the debt; however, I didn't owe it to 4 different CA's for 4 totally different amounts. I sent DV letters to each one of those CA's and I have never heard anything back from them. It has been well over a year now since this happened and I sent my letters.
While I agree some people might be misusing the DV letter, or not clearly understanding exactly what it is for; however, in a case like mine, I'm glad I have that ability. To force a CA to prove the amount they are claiming I owe is correct and prove to me they are legally entitled to be collecting on that debt.
I'm not going to pay 4 times for the same debt. Ever.