Do CA's have to send dunning letter if no inital contact
Date: Fri, 03/06/2009 - 18:11
In other words can a CA just keep calling and calling and leave messages or not but never send a written notice if they have never talked to you directly?
According to my dfi yes. But that's just how they read the act.
According to my dfi yes. But that's just how they read the act. Someone else might read it differently.
When I complained that a collection agency had never sent me a dunning letter, but continued to call, they told them they were in violation of the fair debit collection act.
No they do not have to send a dunning letter if they have never
No they do not have to send a dunning letter if they have never contacted you by phone. In fact, depending who the debt collector is, they will sue you for being evasive and for ignoring their calls. If it is a reputable company or law firm they will send something in writing and will most likely never contact you by phone. If you do not respond in 30 days and it is a law firm they will sue you.
To your other question, yes they can keep calling and calling as long as it is within the FDCPA guidelines and states such as Massachusetts only allows 2 phone calls a week but you must answer the phone I believe. For the FDCPA it states calls must be after 8 am and not after 9 pm. Excessive calls are also illegal but I believe you need to talk to them on the phone and explain your situation to them in order for the laws to take effect.
Thanks. Just curious. I'm at the point where I don't mind call
Thanks. Just curious. I'm at the point where I don't mind calling them back and telling them I'm going to wait for the dunning letter. This way there is the initial contact and they have to send it.
Since I just found out initial contact doesn't occur until they actually talk to you it was just a question that occurred to me. I had thought the initial phone call, even if you didn't answer, was initial contact.
Many people advise to NOT call a CA. Personally, I have found i
Many people advise to NOT call a CA. Personally, I have found it extremely useful to call them either when they have left a message or they show up on your credit report. Check your state laws about recording the call..because that is a true goldmine...all bottom feeders will break the law left and right over the phone....it is priceless to play it back for them at a later time when they tel you that you can't prove they said such things. :)
But seriously, when talking to a CA just remember that YOU are in control. Not them. They will try to make you fess up. Don't..they will ask stupid questions such as, "You never had a credit card, ever?" Don't fall for it. Just get he info you need from them, feel them out a bit. It is much better when you send your DV you reference the phone call, it makes the letter look more custom since CAs are now starting to get many more DVs, many just laugh at those that are strictly form letter since they make it look like the sender doesn't really know the laws, but is just copying something they found.
I'm with GoldenBast, I always call every CA. Even if the number
I'm with GoldenBast, I always call every CA. Even if the number is just showing up in my CID and they have never left a message. I also record those initial calls; however, since I'm in FL I have to let them know I'm recording the call so I sometimes don't get the initial CA entertainment value off those calls. They're usually a lot more careful when they know they're being recorded.
After the initial phone call, I always send a DV letter, regardless of whether I have received the initial dunning letter from the CA. I might wait a week or two just to see if I do get one; however, there have been many instances where I have never received one. I always want to make sure I get that DV letter to them within that 30-day period.
I have taken the sample DV letter from this website and have modified it to my own use. Just so it doesn't look like I've just copied and pasted a form letter. I also make sure I mention anything relevant that occurred during the initial phone conversation. Like any violations of the FDCPA, for instance.
I do think I'm going to start following some advice I read here the other day; I think it was NASCAR_devil that posted it. All that really needs to be in the DV letter, as opposed to that shopping list of things asked for in the sample letter, is the fact I dispute the debt and the fact I'm requesting validation. Really, 9 out of 10 times I request all those items, I only get some lame "statement" typed up on the CA's letter head any way. My attorney has already told me that is not proper validation; they have to send me something from the OC in order to validate a debt.
I'm currently suing two CA's because a memo on their letter head was what they provided in response to my request for validation and they have continued collection attempts knowing I told them that wasn't good enough. They also have the debts on my CBR's and they they are not showing the items as being disputed.
Quote:No they do not have to send a dunning letter if they have
Quote:
No they do not have to send a dunning letter if they have never contacted you by phone. In fact, depending who the debt collector is, they will sue you for being evasive and for ignoring their calls. If it is a reputable company or law firm they will send something in writing and will most likely never contact you by phone. If you do not respond in 30 days and it is a law firm they will sue you. To your other question, yes they can keep calling and calling as long as it is within the FDCPA guidelines and states such as Massachusetts only allows 2 phone calls a week but you must answer the phone I believe. For the FDCPA it states calls must be after 8 am and not after 9 pm. Excessive calls are also illegal but I believe you need to talk to them on the phone and explain your situation to them in order for the laws to take effect. |
There is incorrect information in the above-quoted post.
First things first--the dunning letter. The FDCPA says, word for word:
Now, lets look at how the FDCPA defines 'communication', from section 803--
This means that ANY method of contact, including printed words or electronically transmitted information, is communication. Going strictly by the letter of the law, one can easily argue that when a debt collector reports a debt on your credit report it is indeed a communication. And according to the law itself they would be right in that argument. The law as written does NOT require an initial phone conversation. It does NOT require you to answer the phone either--if they leave a message on your answering machine or voicemail, that is every bit an initial communication as if you spoke to them for an hour. Remember this--the law makes no requirement as to how much information they have to tell you for it to qualify as "initial communication", so if they leave a voicemail that says "Mr. Brown, please return this call to ABC collection agency at 1-800-123-4567 in regards to an important business matter....", that is communication. It informed you that they are attempting to speak to you regarding a debt. When a debt collector reports to your credit bureau, as many of them do nowadays without trying to contact you first, that is indeed a communication according to this law. "whether directly or indirectly", remember that.
In short, this means that if they so much as leave a voicemail, or if they report a debt on your credit file, they are then required to send you the dunning letter within five days. This will of course be a matter of opinion for many of you but my attorney is where I got this information. He has argued that exact same point in court and won on many occasions because of the law's "least sophisticated consumer" outlook on things. He has successfully argued that when a debt collector reports to your credit file without contacting you, it is a trick they use to try to get around the five day requirement for the dunning letter. Hasnt failed him yet, and I wouldnt think it would fail you if you argued that in your own case.
Now, onto the second point in that post, about the phone calls. There is no requirement anywhere in the FDCPA that you must answer the calls for excessive calls to be illegal. This is word for word what the FDCPA says about harassment in section 806:
Whether you answer or not, causing the phone to ring excessively is enough to violate the law. The problem here is that the FDCPA does not place any concrete number on this as to exactly what "excessively" means. It could be five calls a day, forty in a week, two hundred in a month.....this means that the law's interpretation boils down to two things:
1--how well you detail the calls and how well you make a case for harassment
2--whether or not the judge agrees that the actions have been above what's reasonable
Because there is no set limit, what is called excessive in one case may not be in another. But no matter the judge's opinion there, you are not required to ever even speak one word to them on the phone for the law to apply. I once threatened a lawsuit against a debt collector because, among many other things, they would call my house no less than 8 times an hour. When I hammered the point home to one of their managers about how ridiculous and unnecessary that was, it was enough for them to drop the whole matter entirely. If you get calls like that, you must document them. If you cannot get a statement from the phone company showing all the incoming calls, then photograph each entry on your caller ID showing the different dates and times of every call incoming from them. A problem there is that many of them block the numbers, so these photos may not prove the identity of the caller after all. I did that with the CA I mentioned, and the phone number that showed up was definitely theirs so they had no way out of it.
Learn something new every day. If someone was going to correct m
Learn something new every day. If someone was going to correct me, I knew it was going to be you skydivr.
Thanks for the correction,
P-okertramp.
Thank you Skydivr. I have never talked to the CC in the 2 years
Thank you Skydivr. I have never talked to the CC in the 2 years I have sent them DV letter and letter telling them what I can do .. so I talked with them on paper .there is a paper trail. I don't think talking on the phone with my bottom feeder collection agencies will serve any purpose except to get you mad at some point and that is not good for anyones health .. If I had been turned over to a good collection agenies .. I might have talked to them . I check them out first on Bud Hibbs and go from there on how to deal with them as I said I have bottom feeders .. so That has made it easy for me to decide how to deal with them..
WHEN LEAVING A MESSAGE CAN YOU LEAVE YOUR COMPANY NAME AND STATE
WHEN LEAVING A MESSAGE CAN YOU LEAVE YOUR COMPANY NAME AND STATE IT IS AN IMPORTANT BUSINESS MATTER..KEY WORK IMPORTANT" example... Mr Brown, please return this call to ABC collection agency at 1-800-123-4567 in regards to an important business matter....
Quote:Originally Posted by AnonymousWHEN LEAVING A MESSAGE CAN Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous WHEN LEAVING A MESSAGE CAN YOU LEAVE YOUR COMPANY NAME AND STATE IT IS AN IMPORTANT BUSINESS MATTER..KEY WORK IMPORTANT" example... Mr Brown, please return this call to ABC collection agency at 1-800-123-4567 in regards to an important business matter.... |
What is the point of your post? You're replying to a thread that is over 1 year old and simply repeating something that was already said in an earlier post.