Is copy of a bill a validation of debt?

There has always been a huge question mark as to what is actually validation. I guess it depends on how one interprets the law. We've had several discussions about this subject so I am going to give you a couple of links to read. Personally, I do not feel a copy of a bill is proper validation. Hang tight while I get those links for you.

Thanks. I hate the fact that my sons account went to these people. Talked to Discover and they stated that they did not sale off the acct, but that Mann Bracken is collecting on the account for them. If this company picked these bottom feeders to work with, I reccommend that no one take out an acct with Discover, not even a prepaid acct.

http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/collection-agencies/debt-validation.html

I'm still searching for more threads, it has been some time ago that we all engaged in a conversation regarding proper debt validation, please be patient with me as I search.

Well, I am not able to locate that particular thread but maybe someone else will be along to enlighten you on this subject. You might also try reading through the FDCPA guidelines, all I can find in the guidelines are definitions of the initial dunning letter and information a debt collector must provide the debtor with. These laws regarding validation is unclear, though some people have used case law successfully.

The link that you gave me was helpful, and in light of a lot of the crap that is going on now as far as people loosing jobs and people not being able to pay their bills, these companies (Credit Card companies...ie banks, finance companies etc....) don't have the public support behind them, never did really, but in times such as these, these types of institutions continue to make a negative name for themselves. I will be grateful when the laws begin to swing back in the consumers' favor. The last time this happened was in the 70s. Back then, it was the consumer, the "customer", was always right". Somewhere along the way, the corporations began to get the upper hand. I believe that many of these debt collectors are running scared because they know that or feel as if the laws will change, and not in their favor, and they are trying to go after as many people as they possibly can. They say that collection companies make money even during economic slumps,but according to what I have seen...a lot of them are actually closing down. Check out Budd Hibbs' website. I'd say that some of the bigger ones like Mann Bracken are probably not doing as well as they usually would be doing. How can they be with so many people out of work?

There are so many small businesses and alike 'going out of business', jobs are scarce, I know that in the county I live in the unemployment rate is higher than it's ever been, I've lived here for almost 6 mos. now and can NOT find a job, because there aren't any jobs to be gotten! I have finally resigned myself to that fact. The credit card companies are raising their rates, because they can, doesn't matter if your a good paying customer and always have been, they are simply doing it because they know most of the customers negotiating power is gone. I'm not sure what is going to happen but I have a feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better, and I half believe I'm not going to see it get any better in my life time, unfortunately. :?

What constitutes proper debt validation is a hot topic. Simple fact is the law is too vague....only that documentation needs to come from the OC, which a bill would. Where it really matters is in court, where you can force the production of more documents. But if it is a legitimate bill, that could backfire on you when they provide said documentation.

What you need to do is look at the bill they sent you. Is it the final bill? If it is just a random bill that only begins to validate the account, as it won't show the final balance owed. Now, if what they are trying to collect doesn't jive with what the bill says, then further proof is needed as to why they are charging you extra, what it is for and if it is legally allowed (in this case a signed contract and/or agreement will be needed.)

You should double check with the OC, see if the account has been charged off and sold, or if it is being collected upon by an outside collection agency. If they have it listed with a CA and it is the CA that is trying to collect from you, asking for proof from the CA is honestly just a stall tactic and one they could prove anyway if it went to court.

NOW, if they sold it (or even if they assigned it) but the CA is different from the one that is trying to collect, then you have a real concern for the CA proving their claim and it would not be unreasonable to ask for further proof.

The bill appears to be the final bill I believe, and it has the same amt on it that the CA is asking for. There are no payments listed however. It's almost as if no payments were made on the acct when there were. The OC when spoken to claimed that MB was collecting for them but yet when I first called them, the girl switched me to the "charge off" department. On my son's credit report, it states that the account was closed and states "potentially negative" on it. If the acct was closed by Discover that means I suppose that the acct was charged off. An expert stated that fighting MB and other collection agencies is all moreso by way of contract law. If they try to send you thru arbitration, you can write them and let them know that you protest arbitration and would prefer a jury trial. They won't go for that and they will usually work to negotiate a lower amt, or will dismiss altogether.

Well, if it is the final bill, that is a start of validation, especially since the amounts match. Now, do you have an idea of when you made a last payment? Or, does the final bill not reflect any payments you made? In other words, does the amount match what you remember was last owed? Unless the issue of SOL is in contention, that can really only be the reason you would need to see your payment history 9unless you think those payment were not credited as I mentioned earlier).

It sounds like they at least have minimum validation and you should likely start to negotiate with them so you can get it paid off and done with.

The amt last owed I believe was less than what the actual bill shows. There are no payments listed at all. The original credit amt was $1,0000 credit limit I believe, but interest I cannot see on the bill. No payments however are listed even though payments were made on the bill.

Did not write in amt appropriately. It is One thousand dollar credit limit.

It is also not clear whether or not Acct was charged off.

i received a civil summons for a account from over 9 years ago,saying i owe them 834.89, they say i owed since 12-15-2003, they say they have personal knowlege i owe this, they prepared this document on nov. 4,2008 and issued to court on feb. 19,2009 and this is the first time, i heard i owe this. this account went from spiegel to midland credit management and then midland funding LLC and the attorney is Mann Bracken LLP, can i write and ask for validation for this account?

Not once the suit is filed. Have you checked with your county to make sure there really is in fact a case filed? These places are not above saying there is when there is not....if that is the case and no case has yet to be filed, send them a DV asap before they can file suit.

If the case is already filed, make sure you answer the summons...do not agree to anything...deny deny deny! Make sure that you force them to provide validating documentation during the discovery part of court....and look to what they send, see if it proves your account is past SOL..if it is, then you could motion to dismiss being a time barred debt.

However they will likely not be able to prove anything..what they say is 'personal knowledge' is likely an affadavit of someone saying they have personal knowledge of this account. Object to it! Demand that the person who signed it be brought into court for you to question (as is your right) you would like to know how they could possibly have personal knowledge of this account...were they there with you when you allegedly made purchases? I don't think so. Oh, if they try to say you made a payment in 12-15-2003 then deny that as well and make them produce the payment method, such as a copy of a check or a credit card reciept...make them prove you paid it.