TASC Fights the BBB

this has been a pretty big discussion around here about the bbb unfair ratings. If searching for a settlement company on the bbb we have concluded that you can still use it only disregaurd the rating and check complaints to see if they are resolved.

keep in mind settlement companies usually have a good bit of complaints due to the nature of the business, but if all complaints are resolved then they did as promised

Oops, I misread the TOS. Here is the inactive link I refered to above:
"www.credit.com/news/experts/2009-03-12/settlement-companies-protest-better-business-bureau-rating-system.html"

Edit: I have no idea how to make the link inactive. I have disabled HTML and removed the url tag and it still shows as an active link. If this is still bad, could a moderator please PM me how to properly post external links.

I think you should disregard if the complaints were resolved or not. You should pay close attention to HOW many and WHAT kinds of complaints. And the TASC is no better than the BBB. People have to KNOW about the TASC to complain. And I tell you....NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT THEM. That's why there are NEVER any complaints. I've never heard of them until fiddling around on this site. But EVERYONE knows about the BBB. The TASC right now is a useless entity. Freedom Debt Relief is still an accredited member of the TASC even though they have Government AG actions against them. As well as deceptive names to fool you that all lead to one company. Just read all I had to say about them on this site as well as the TASC.

Reason is all you need. I know it upsets people sometimes with my straight forward and blunt delivery but I always look at things in a logical way. When I don't I get in trouble.

And last. You can't look at something in a logical way unless you UNDERSTAND what it is you are looking at. When you don't UNDERSTAND something EVERYTHING makes sense. Example...(The rule of thought way back when was that the Earth was round) Made sense didn't it? Or (The sun revolved around the Earth) again made sense didn't it?

If you want to use this industry you better LEARN about it first. There are no regulations as of now. It's a scammers paradise.

You cant disregard if they have been settled. Love_my is right when she says you have to understand the nature of business they are in. Everyone is going to file a complaint... Just like every prisoner in jail is complaining about everything.

See......people want to pick an choose what they want to except from the BBB and what they will not. They say the BBB is bias. Ok.....if you believe that disregard the whole BBB completely. You can't say "Oh they are full of it in reporting the truth (Liars to the core) but they got the resolve complaints right."..LOL. That's absurd thinking. You can't have it both ways. But as a consumer that stuff should be pie in the sky who cares mumbo jumbo. You don't have time for that. Let someone else play politician. If there are complaints about someone, something or some place (and I mean a lot of them) you have to become skeptical PERIOD. I don't care what the complaint was about. Who cares if it was resolved or not? Obviously something is WRONG. This isn't going to a store and paying for your product and you leave. This is paying the store and hoping you get a product in the mail. And the way things are going YOU ARE NOT GETTING YOUR PRODUCT 9 OUT OF 10 TIMES IN THIS INDUSTRY. Then they tell you that you will not get a refund either.

If someone continues to be accused of being a criminal over and over again would you want to do business with that person? Now you all know you wouldn't. What makes a company any different? You have a lot to lose here.

5 THINGS YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BBB

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Like I said Mobile "Let someone else play politician" We don't have time for that. How MANY complaints is KEY. Grade??? TASC???? BBB???? Who cares? Now to the question: Where should I spend my money? ALWAYS LOCAL CONSUMER LAWYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for the record when I joined Hess Kennedy they had a very good record at the BBB. Campos too. We all know the outcome of that.

ALWAYS LOCAL CONSUMER LAWYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALWAYS LOCAL CONSUMER LAWYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or do it yourself. These are the two safe options given to you right now.

Or where ever Mobile is at. That way if I get screwed Mobile it's yo @$$.....LOL. Just kidding but that would be funny.

just my 2 cents, but from spending the last few months on this forum i have noticed alot of people who got into a panic joined a settlement company and now complain that they are getting sued, or (yes this was in a post)that the settlement company did not pay his bill every month and they ruined his credit. people get into a panic and dont know what they signed up for and then complain is all im sayin. i would have never believed that people would sign up with companies that they did not research or check out fully by googling and such but it happens everyday. people postin new threads about companies that we have discussed over and over that are scammy. just spending enough time on this forum you can get the feel of a good or bad company almost enough that i feel you could make a good decision. so i completely understand why now alot of these settlement companies get alot of complaints. people dont know the facts about settlement let alone the information on the company itself.

You shouldn't have to go to such great lengths to find a reputable company. But since there are no regulations in the industry you have to. Who's looking out for the folks?

This industry has the inmates running the asylum. At this stage of the game don't trust them. Refrom is coming though. People are taking notice.

Tom321,
Thank you for your brilliant insight, glad you have been sleeping for the last few years. Let me guess... you work for a credit counselor during the day and visit these boards at night to let out your frustration because you hate competing against the settlement industry. Good job - hope you are proud of your efforts. I'm sure your cube buddies think you are cool. What a "life" you have created for yourself.

Brilliant banter as usual. Now go use another name. You people will never learn. It's just fun and games for me. Nothing more. Always will be. I am proud of my efforts....LOL. Thank you for noticing.

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Chrys,
Great post! I could nit-pick a few points, and probably should, But I wont. You hit a few things that I rarely ever see discussed. The sales process by many DS firms is the biggest reason the industry is where it is right now. The industry is consolidating as we post (this is a good thing).

Loved it...

My opinion... Mileage may vary

Again Chrys You are 100% correct. I agree with EVERYTHING you said. I would have said it myself but man that's WAY too much writing for me....LOL. Chrys you are quickly becoming my favorite on this site and someone I can completely trust in what you say. Very reasonable guy. Actually thinks things through and comes out with a rational conclusion. People like this are hard to find.

Also Nascardevil and Pualmergel. Very reasonable and they try to stay neutral. Plus these guys like to have a little fun on the site. Oh and unclewulf also. Straight shooter that guy is.

Is that Debt CC's official position vis-a-vis debt settlement, Chrys? I was contacted by a debt company after I filled in the free counseling button on this site a few weeks ago. Are you saying they're no good?

Hi Guest,

Question #1: no.
Question #2: not exactly.

Quote:

And just to add one more thing: the main point I have, and why I am so vehement in expediting the ratification of consumer protection laws for the DN industry and the strengthening of the FDCPA, is because the DN market and the Debt Collection industry will be absolutely saturated very soon and it is going to balloon enormously and all these problems will increase exponentially, so the house needs to be swept out, and FAST.

Facts: According to Reuters, the month of April 2009, the fewest jobs were lost in 1 month since Oct 2008. It is a total of 539,000! And that was only because of the new hiring for the next Census! We're talking about 3 to 4 million lost jobs (just in the last 7 months!) with a massive pool of potential debt settlers that may need/wish to flock to DN firms in droves within the next year or 2 (or more), an even more massive pool of defaulting debtors, and a vast number of bankruptcy filers (we've got BK covered, in fact, it is probably *too* regulated these days). I can hear the slavering quivering jaws already! Cha-ching! (Think "Money" form Dark Side of the Moon.)

So Change and Regulation needs to happen NOW! The government moves painfully slow as it is, but is now bogged down in trying to keep the ship of greed afloat! (Yes, I said it.) So, We the People need to make our voices heard NOW! They seem to be free to gouge you now but WE need to step up and take back our right to not have our Trust taken advantage of for filthy lucre! How is capitalism going to survive if not on trust? Are we going to just sit back while social-ism makes a comeback? And while Consumer Debt issues may possibly be construed as a minor problem in the phalanx of greed known as the Financial Industry, it is a positive and worthy step forward!

Thank you for listening and I hope you think upon my words, if only for a little while.

Again Chrys, Good stuff. I like your style. We appear to have harmony at the chorus and just go our own way on a verse or 2.
It would be good to speak with you. I am trying to figure out how to pm you without a log in. I cannot seem to do it. I had a log in (tipbilly) but lost the password. Then, I just got in the habit of drive-by posting as someone else.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:13 am Subject:

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5 THINGS YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BBB

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1) The Better Business Bureau is NOT a government agency. Instead the BBB is a private 501(c)(6) organization with $143 Million in annual revenues derived from membership dues it receives from the very businesses it reports on.

2) Attorney General questions new BBB Grading System. The Connecticut Attorney General is looking into the practices of the Better Business Bureau after they gave their annual Torch Award for Best Business to Custom Basement, a firm under investigation for violation of consumer protection laws.

3) U.S. Representative says BBB negatively classify businesses they don't like. Addressing Congress, US Representative Corrine Brown said some BBB's libel and slander small businesses they don't like while rating other companies with terrible records as being satisfactory.

4) Membership in the BBB guarantees a better grade. By their own admission, membership in the Better Business Bureau improves a business' grade. Calling this a membership service is a misnomer, it more closely resembles an advertising service where "members" pay to play.

5) Even the Better Business Bureau is NOT a member of the BBB. Not only does this exhibit a lack of confidence in their own product, it makes it impossible for anyone to complain about the Better Business Bureau to the organization.


It is time that this bbb business who promotes bad businesses because they are bbb members..and can post neg things about non-members who refuse to pay membership to be a part of their group..needs a big reform..for years anyone who told me "check with the bbb or report to the bbb"" I knew it was a big fat joke!

Hi Someone else,

You can email me at chrys @ this website....

You are hereby put on Notice that you had better stop your dishonest business model NOW and reform or die!

YES!! YES!! FILE THOSE COMPLAINTS PROPERLY!!

[url=http://www.oag.state.ny.us/media_center/2009/may/may7a_09.html][New York] Attorney General Cuomo announces Nationwide Investigation into Debt Settlement Industry![/url]

Well what do you know. I know those companies. They are companies of the TASC board members....LOL. And NEW company of that clown Edward Cherry AKA Edward Kennedy (Hess Kennedy/Allegro Law). We all know that guy.

Want to know something REALLY funny. Awhile back I went to the TASC site and it said President of the TASC, Christopher Kesterson was president and CEO of Debt Settlement America. Now that Debt Settlement America has a big fat F with the BBB and Cuomo is after them (ALL OF A SUDDEN) it says Christopher Kesterson is President and CEO of American Debt Exchange. LOL....no mention of Debt Settlement America. American Debt Exchange is not even on the BBB's radar. New company anyone?...LOL. Why the change?

NO ONE can defend this outfit. This is shameful.

Cuomo article also mentions this:

The following are some helpful information tips for consumers faced with significant credit card debt:



Be wary of debt settlement companies which falsely promise to obtain substantial lump sum debt reduction settlements. Many advertise ???reduce debt now,??? and claim as much as 50% to 75% off credit card debt, but rarely obtain advertised reductions.

Never agree to sign a contract with a debt settlement company that requires payment in advance prior to obtaining the promised debt reduction.

Enrollment in debt settlement plans may not stop creditors from bringing collection law suits, or prevent enrolled accounts from growing larger by the addition of late fees, interest, and penalties. Also, credit reports will reflect derogatory information, including assessed late charges and non-payment of debt, and consequently credit scores will be adversely affected.

Creditors are under no legal obligation to accept a settlement offer for less than the outstanding balance owed.

Only a small number of consumers who enroll in debt settlement plans have the financial means to complete them. Usually, they drop out after having paid service fees to the companies with no settlements.

Enrollment in a debt settlement plan premised on stopping payments to creditors will likely lead to more frequent and aggressive creditor collection efforts often resulting in judgments, wage garnishments, and freezing of bank accounts.

Check with the Better Business Bureau to obtain a Reliability Report on a particular debt settlement company and its rating. You have a better chance with getting an acurate rating with the BBB than the TASC for obvious reasons.

A wise first step to help resolve an outstanding account is to speak directly to the credit card issuer. Alternatively, it may be helpful to speak to an attorney or an accredited credit counselor who can help develop a plan of action that best works for each consumer???s unique situation. This is EXTREMELY wise. ALWAYS CHOOSE LOCAL.

Hope this can help people.

Thank Chrys. I will contact you shortly.

Tom321, you have good blunt commentary too. I think we would also disagree on some minutia, but overall your blunt honesty/opinions are good for a board like this.

Mileage may vary...

And just a couple of months ago, it was the Colorado State Attorney General's office.

Eleven Companies Settle With The State Under New Debt-Management And Credit Counseling Regulations. As I said above, Colorado has the strictest regulation.

The Federal government takes way too long to get anything moving, maybe because there isn't enough complaints. The AG offices will move faster, but then again, some states are not well disposed to those of lesser incomes, if you know what I mean, so the alleged debtor is left out to dry...

So, in September 2008, the FTC held a workshop on the DN industry. There are 4 PDF files of transcripts which are rather illuminating, with TASC and DN and Credit Repair firms sending representatives to try and make themselves look like they are only helping and they're so wonderful and they provide a valuable service ... ... ...

It's like paying $50 for a cheesburger! And being told that you just don't have the talent to make a delicious cheesburger like they do, and if you try you will only mess it up....

There has been two meetings before the Senate since then, as far as I can tell. Here is the FTC's report to the Senate. And then 1 more, FTC Tells Congress Changes in Law and More Resources Would Enhance the Agency???s Consumer Protection Efforts in Financial Services Markets.

And if you live in New York, on May 14th, there will be a public hearing: Consumer Protection in the Debt Collection and Debt Management Industries. They are considering also enacting the Uniform Debt Services Management Act.

And as far as the original topic, I wasn't impressed with TASC from the get-go, so I am pleased to hear documented clarification of my instincts. Very interesting.

The BBB never impressed me much either, but it is still a very handy tool, because most people don't know about filing complaints with the FTC and the FCC, etc., but nearly everyone knows about the BBB and that will be the 1st place the vast majority go to complain. So it is a good resource as far as seeing how many complaints were filed as they keep track of that history. But ultimately, it seems to be of little more value than a christmas tree ornament.

IAPDA at least has a quite extensive course in Debt Arbitration, FCRA, and FDCPA training, and includes state statutes, etc. It is quite a comprehensive course, so it's a good start - but, so far (AFAIK) Colorado is the only state that requires all employees of DN firms to be educated and certified. I hope that will change as there is far too much at stake to trust to a salesman, whose only care is a sign-on bonus and your debt and your fears and concerns take a back seat to that.

But it's not really the individual agent's fault so much. Most people are naturally obedient and can be quite wily in ways to justify that obedience to themselves even when it causes physical pain to others. ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment") The Nazis, the Inquisitors, etc., come to mind.

The blame can be laid squarely at the feet of poor management, or managers with very limited people skills or delusions of grandeur and authority fixations - basically petty bullies. There are an infestation of them in the business world these days. There is a most excellent book on this very topic by a Professor of Management Science at Stanford Engineering School & Stanford Graduate School of Business, Robert Sutton. Well, here is a quick synopsis: "Sutton???s book argues that the modern workplace is beset with 'a$$holes,' defined as those who deliberately make co-workers feel bad about themselves and who focus their aggression on the less powerful. Their impact is to decrease productivity, induce employees to quit and create a poisonous work environment."
("http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Costing-workplace-bullying-DC83H?OpenDocument")

What this does is make the workers all stressed out and so they take take out their aggressions on the customer/client/debtor and the business environment would be so much better without them. And so would we. That is the biggest problem with Debt Collectors, too, and to ignore that very important influence whilst structuring regulatory statutes would lessen the effectiveness and probably increase the stress (and hence turnover) of these positions. It is far too easy to blame the person you are talking to and making them the scapegoat.

This has been a stimulating conversation, and I thank you for participating.

Someone Else:

Thank You. Even in my personal life I'm straight to the point when speaking and blunt to the core. That seems to piss some people off for some reason. Even on this site. I try to through in some comical joking here and there because I love to laugh but some STILL take it wrong. What can you do?...LOL. I take none of it personally, plus people on here like to excercise what I call internet courage. Talk big and tuff on here but in person if they saw me they would choose their words more carefully. I get that all the time. I don't know why I'm such a nice guy I wouldn't hurt anyone....LOL. So it is what it is.

Some on here just get soooooo mad if you don't share their point of view. And some just don't have the SKILLS to have a rational sane debate. Someone else I like your style. You may disagree sometimes but you are always respectful and encourage healthy debate.

Chrys:

I love what you do. Yeah bro you write alot and sometimes I think why, why, why, why Chrys Why so many words (LOL)but it's clear and easy to understand. Also I agree with everything you have said so far. So that helps......LOL. Keep it up bro.

I am also quite loquacious. :D

Thanks for your comments. We need a little better legislation so when any person who doesn't know much about debt issues and will really appreciate an outside negotiator to assist them without worrying too much about which companies are *really* best to avoid.

I look forward to the day.

(The Beatles's song "Instant Karma" just popped in my head, interestingly enough! I didn't even know the lyrics, I had to look them up!)

Again I agree with you Chrys. Like I said before......REFORM IS COMING. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.

Right on the day I posted the above, the FTC announced that they testified before the House of Representatives on their efforts to protect consumers of financial services. It was in support of the Consumer Credit and Debt Protection Act (HR 2309), "that would allow the FTC to issue rules prohibiting or restricting unfair or deceptive practices relating to consumer credit or debt services. The legislation would give the Commission authority to obtain civil penalties for violations of rules that the agency promulgates with regard to consumer credit or debt. The Commission believes that having this civil penalty authority would increase deterrence of would-be violators and allow it to protect consumers more effectively".

From the Testimony itself: "As the FTC has previously testified, the Commission has actively enforced the FTC Act and other consumer protection laws in the areas of mortgage advertising and marketing, mortgage servicing, loan modification and foreclosure rescue, automobile finance, debt settlement and credit counseling, debt collection practices, and credit repair operations. In addition, the FTC has been active in the areas of mortgage discrimination and unsecured consumer credit, such as personal loans, payday loans, and credit cards. During the last five years, the agency has brought more than seventy (70!) consumer protection cases against those who violated the law in connection with offering or providing financial services."

And here is the results of the investigation into debt collectors and debt settlement companies: companies fined 5,000 and a website has been put up by Cuomo and the Consumer Frauds Bureau warning people about debt settlement companies.

And, New York Attorney General sues 2 more Debt Settlement companies, CSA (Credit Solutions America) - one of the largest DS firms in the country, and Nationwide Asset Services.
Texas Attorney General Charges Four Debt Settlement Companies With Unlawful Conduct.
Attorney General Madigan (Illinois) Sues Two Debt Settlement Firms.
West Virginia Attorney General Forbids Texas Debt Settlement firm to offer its services in WV.

It can't be a coincidence that EVERYONE is against DS companies. I think I'm changing my position on them. Just stay away from them. They are more hassle than they are worth.

Good post Chrys. And Congats on the Hall of Fame.

Next time you are looking at the bbb.org website fell free to type in the bbb and see what kind of rating they have maintained for themselves. Last I checked the had a C rating for themselves. I thought this was most amusing. They are about one thing......yearly dues. Gotta admit whoever though of the BBB is a genius. The organization itself is a scam though.

Yeah, the only reason why the BBB has any credibility at all these days is because they have been around so long that most people know about them, and those that would file a complaint rather than get ripped off, will likely do so with the BBB first. Plus, the FTC and - as far as I know - the state Attorney Generals keep such complaints private and only announce when their attempts to censure the offending organizations are met with deaf ears and the AG or the FTC is forced to sue them.