new pay day laws in US

wow, that is a big change. I am sure the illegals will still be able to operate as they are now, though.

Congratulations on almost having your PDL paid off!

As for the information on the bill at the Federal level, it was just introduced a few weeks ago and has not even made it to the floor for any kind of discussion or vote, let alone having been signed by the President.

Personally, it would be a HUGE PR blunder for this bill to get any further than it is right now. In this economy, the last thing that anyone in DC should be doing is passing a bill that would put 10's of thousands out of work and eliminate a form a credit when the banks are doing a good job of that without our elected officials help.

Quote:

LMAO :lol:

Many want to see PDL companies put under, destroyed, out of business, etc.. I disagree, I simply say if you do not like them do not obtain them. Just think about it for a minute, if you avoid getting them then you will eventually have sent a clear message to the PDL industry. One way or another they have helped some folks in the past. But if you cannot afford to pay them right off, then please avoid them at all costs.

Let the LEGAL lenders do there business, I have no beef with them. Now we wont get into the blood sucking ILLEGAL bottomfeeders that call themselves an operation. They crack me up everyday :lol:

Quote:

I am curios too, where did you hear that from??

Based on that response, I think that my job here is done!!!! :D

What anayaroberts is saying is "spot on". You can control the legal lenders that follow the rules, but they are not the problem. The bottom feeders that break every rule in the book will NEVER go away and this legislation would only stregthen thier hold on the consumer since it give an "out" to any governing body to step in. They will say that they have no jurisdiction since they are located out of the country, on a reservation or cannot be found.

And that is what needs to be stopped.

To reply to "Legal lenders are not the problem". I agree most legal lenders will cooperate. But we have some Legal lenders that are giving even Legal lenders a very Bad name. I wont say the names of the companies, but they are posted here all over the forum. They pride themselves in their installment loans and prey on the fact they are backed by a bank. So sad because the interest rate on these loans are through the roof. I understand these are not PDLs in most cases, but lord have mercy this has to stop too. :?

[quote]Personally, it would be a HUGE PR blunder for this bill to get any further than it is right now. In this economy, the last thing that anyone in DC should be doing is passing a bill that would put 10's of thousands out of work and eliminate a form a credit when the banks are doing a good job of that without our elected officials help[/quote]

PASS IT!

If they want to stay in biz then get rid of the ridiculous interest rates...PDL & Installment.

They are nothing more than loan sharks! The only difference is instead of breaking your legs they break your bank account, marriage, job, sanity etc...

How can anyone justify these jobs are anything else than larceny. 10's of thousands lose their jobs? How about the 100's of thousands that suffer even with the so called "legal lenders".

I have no sympathy for anyone in the industry, find an honest self fulfilling job that does not require feeding on the desperate, uneducated and naive.

Yes, there are those that can use these lenders and be responsible but those are "BAD CUSTOMERS".

The day this forum is no longer needed will be a bless id day. Until then what is done on this board is truly a sanctuary for the many victims of the "PDL HELL TRAP"

Sorry Pdlowner, you do great work here but I disagree 100% with your statement.

and...anyaroberts YES! Legal lenders are also the problem, The TRAP does not change just because they are "LEGAL".

Agreed. Like I stated Legal isnt always right.

The madness has to end at some point.

This is another thread where we can beat the perverbial dead horse, but you do realize that if the govt puts us out of business, the climate will only get worse. The void of regulated, licensed lenders will be filled with a glut of unlicensed, unregulated, unaudited lenders. You also realize that 90% of the complaints come from 10% of the PDL companies, with most of those being illegal, online lenders?

Another question for you...

How can a responsible customer that pays thier loan ontime and doesn't borrow every 2 weeks be a bad customer? There are many that fit this bill and I would welcome them in my stores any day of the week and actually do! The reality is that it takes 10 like sized loans to just make up the lost principal for 1 bad loan. This means that if a customer does not pay me, I have to do 10 loans of the same amount just to recoup the lost money loaned.

Another question...

If our fees are soooo bad, what do you say about the fees and practices that banks have? You know $2.00 to get you own $20.00 out of an ATM, $33.00 for the NSF fee on your $20.00 check, $20.00 fees for the bank to move money from your overdraft protection to cover a check, ect.. Or we can talk about the credit card companies and thier $35 fees for a payment being 1 day late on top of potentially raising your interest rate to the state maximum. The list goes on and on...

Your argument on all of these can be that they are all avoidable. At the bank you can avoid ATM charges and don't write check that you can't cover. With the credit card, don't pay your bill late. These arguments are exactly correct and also apply for our industry. If you are not prepared to pay the stated cost for our service, don't walk in our stores and borrow money!!!

Granted, the illegal lenders are slimmy and dishonest, but do not lump the legal lender in the same group. We have all of our fees posted and abide by all required disclosures, Reg Z and TILA.

Help me out. If a person walks into my store to borrow money, what else do I need to do to make them aware of the ammout it will cost to borrow money? I already have my fees posted on the wall, I ask them how much they would like to borrow and tell them the fees associated with it, I provide them with an agreement with the Reg Z, TILA disclosures and terms and I go over the amount borrowed, fees and amount due.

When does the responsibility fall on the customer to listen and read? Every one that walks thru my door is an adult and most are 30+!! When do they become responsible for thier actions and decisions?

BTW, thanks for the compliment and I believe that in the end this is going to be one of those areas where we will need to agree to disagree, but I still want your opinion.

A ???GOOD CUSTOMER??? rolls over the loan time and time again $$$$$$$$$!!
A ???BAD CUSTOMER??? pays off the loan quickly and is never seen again.

This is another thread where we can beat the preverbal dead horse, but you do realize that if the govt puts us out of business, the climate will only get worse. The void of regulated, licensed lenders will be filled with a glut of unlicensed, unregulated, unaudited lenders. You also realize that 90% of the complaints come from 10% of the PDL companies, with most of those being illegal, online lenders?

???60% of the time it works every time???

Another question for you...

How can a responsible customer that pays thier loan ontime and doesn't borrow every 2 weeks be a bad customer? There are many that fit this bill and I would welcome them in my stores any day of the week and actually do! The reality is that it takes 10 like sized loans to just make up the lost principal for 1 bad loan. This means that if a customer does not pay me, I have to do 10 loans of the same amount just to recoup the lost money loaned.

LOST MONEY LOANED? Interest and fees are more than the principle if an installment loan is only being paid by weekly and then the principle is still owed.
One owes the money lent however; no one should be subject to these 100%, 200%, 400%, 1,000% interest rates + fees. Defend that???.

Another question...

If our fees are soooo bad, what do you say about the fees and practices that banks have? You know $2.00 to get you own $20.00 out of an ATM, $33.00 for the NSF fee on your $20.00 check, $20.00 fees for the bank to move money from your overdraft protection to cover a check, ect.. Or we can talk about the credit card companies and thier $35 fees for a payment being 1 day late on top of potentially raising your interest rate to the state maximum. The list goes on and on...

Your argument on all of these can be that they are all avoidable. At the bank you can avoid ATM charges and don't write check that you can't cover. With the credit card, don't pay your bill late. These arguments are exactly correct and also apply for our industry. If you are not prepared to pay the stated cost for our service, don't walk in our stores and borrow money!!!

DON???T HAVE A STORE???problem solved!
Thanks for writing my own argument on bank charges you saved me some time.

Granted, the illegal lenders are slimmy and dishonest, but do not lump the legal lender in the same group. We have all of our fees posted and abide by all required disclosures, Reg Z and TILA.

???SORRY, YOUR LUMPED...nothing personal???

Help me out. If a person walks into my store to borrow money, what else do I need to do to make them aware of the ammout it will cost to borrow money? I already have my fees posted on the wall, I ask them how much they would like to borrow and tell them the fees associated with it, I provide them with an agreement with the Reg Z, TILA disclosures and terms and I go over the amount borrowed, fees and amount due.

???DON???T HAVE A STORE???problem solved!

When does the responsibility fall on the customer to listen and read? Every one that walks thru my door is an adult and most are 30+!! When do they become responsible for thier actions and decisions?

???The responsibility is always on the customer but you know as well as I do that most have tunnel vision when they walk in. All they want is some cash and they will do anything, sign anything just to put their hands on it, never thinking of the consequences???.
???It???s predatory???

BTW, thanks for the compliment and I believe that in the end this is going to be one of those areas where we will need to agree to disagree, but I still want your opinion.

You???re welcome????????????.I???m right???..BLAH BLAH BLAH {fingers in my ears}.

Interesting points...

Still, the PDL industry does charge outrageous fees and is set up so that a person is easily trapped and cannot escape the PDL madness. THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE! I don't disagree that legal PDL's offer a service...it just needs to be reasonable.

Ok, we need to lock this thread. It will go on forever..LOL!

Reasonable fees... go down the street around the corner and ask that man standing in the shadow. If you are willing to risk physical pain then by all means take out a loan.

Ahhh...the good old days

Sounds like we might have a pissing match starting. LOL

Help me out. If a person walks into my store to borrow money, what else do I need to do to make them aware of the ammout it will cost to borrow money? I already have my fees posted on the wall, I ask them how much they would like to borrow and tell them the fees associated with it, I provide them with an agreement with the Reg Z, TILA disclosures and terms and I go over the amount borrowed, fees and amount due.

What about their right to an EPP is that posted?

All points duley noted.

In the end this forum exists due to folks in financial crisis over PayDay loans they have received at one time or another. WE the consumer understand that no one forced us into these loans. But wether the company is Legal or Illegal they have seemed to done more harm than good to over half of the members on this forum. And in some cases they have even become more predatory in their lending practices.

No offense to anyone in the industry running their operation by the rules and regs. I have no beef with you, but I say avoid the PDL trap and cycle at all costs! It is truley not worth it! :wink:

Who cares now. both sides have made their points. Just keep this in mind. A man who talks louder is not being heard, just being noisey

all right everyone to a neutral corner.first i count this as a spammer post meant to flame the boards.never heard that any new pdl laws have passed or have been signed.my pdl beef is with the illegals first and last.yes 3 years ago i had storefront pdl's and paid them without incident.it is the ipdl's and the agencies they employ that i have a problem with.owner has given a good insider's point of view without being confrontational.if this does turn into a pissing contest this thread will be locked quickly.

I read a post on this forum the other day about a guy who had his loan for 2YEARS!!!! Yes 2 years and he defaulted due to the illness of his child and this legal storefront lender threatened, harassed and even at the corporate level offered this poor guy no alternative. These kind of stories put the legal licensed lenders in the same slimey pot as the illegals.

It is all about the money at any cost!!!!!

I dont see this as a pissing contest I see this as a post that clearly identifies people on different ends of the spectrum, I dont think anyone has been out of line, thats why there called opinons there not always the same.

Obviously urrrrrrrlacher doesn't want to listen....

desperatelyseekingsanity,

Outrageous is in the eye of the beholder. If you take a step back and look at the real cost and not the APR, when you go to a licensed lender the cost is not that great. To my knowledge, the highest fee charged is in Wisconsin and that is $22 per $100 borrowed, I believe the current average is around $16 nationally. If you borrowed that $100 to avoid one NSF fee, you would have saved approximately $10 just from the bank. Many think that making 20% on a transaction is just a horrible thing to do, but thier thought is based on knowledge. If you actually knew the mark-up/profit margins on other items that you pruchase, you would realize that the margins are pretty small in this industry.

An example of the margins...

I have a friend that owns a cell phone store here 2 doors down from my store. He buys accessories for $5 and sells them for $15 to $20. Calculate the percentage on that!!! This is common in most forms of retail. In the lending business, you know exactly what the product (cash) cost us and exactly what the profit is on that one transaction. What you do not know is the costs incurred to process the transaction and they are more substantial that you would believe.

Every customer goes away at some point in time and "trapping" the customer is not in the best interest of the lender. My reasoning for this is due to the fact that a "trapped" customer will eventually not pay you back and will incurr additional expenses to collect or attempt to collect. I would raqther have my staff at the counter lending money and buying back loans than sitting on the phone trying to collect on a bad loan, but that is part of the job.

Hey it is my opinon that everyone elses opinons are wrong. (as that is not true)

I agree that people are just giving out their opinons, but what I think it has moved beyond the opinon giving stage and it has moved into the "I am right and you are not" stage. Just my opinon. LOL

"Obviously urrrrrrrlacher doesn't want to listen.... "

My point has been proven.

Dang...I should have read the writing on the wall

Right to EPP? only if you default and then you charge back for NSF fee's (I know it's on the wall too) plus you may have NSF fees from you own bank.

Again, no store to walk into...all problems solved.

Hey Vlad, are you the impaler? I know these PDL's have sucked almost all the blood out of me and left me with a faint pulse.

This thread started with encouraging news that perhaps, at last some much needed regulation will come to this Vampire industry.

I hate big GOV. but I must say they are truly wearing blinders in this sector.

kfstaff is exactly right, no pissing match here. In fact, I even stated that we need to agree to disagree. Nonconfrontational dialogue is fun and can educate both sides.

As for the situation that kfstaff listed about the poster with the sick child, that company makes me sick and I would pretty much guarantee that the Executives were not aware of the situation, nor would they condone the treatment of the customer. That is the reason that I provided the President's name and number to call. There is no reason for that situation to have escalated.

Now, do I have the EPP posted? No, I am not a member of the CFSA due to costs. Do I have customers on payment plans that are more favorable that the mandated EPP? Yep, unfortunately lots of them, some have been going on for 6+ months due to the situation. If I did post the EPP, I can assure you that it would be followed it to the letter of its intent, 4 payment on the next 4 paydays. I personally, would rather be able to establish my own terms to fit the needs of a customer in need.

What else I wanted to say is that PDL owner made the choice to join a forum made up of individuals that are not necessarily fond of the PDL Industry lol so unfortunately when he states his opinion and sometimes his opinions are valuable, there are naturally going to be more people not in favor as they have had a bad experience. Unfortunately there are many stories on here of legal lenders acting as bad as illegal lenders. PDL Owner may run his business differently but the general consensus regarding payday loans is not good.

I think we can all learn from each others experiences good or bad. Sometimes we shoot the messenger but I think everyone here contributes even though it may not be something we want to hear.

PDL Owner is using "Fuzzy Math". If someone pays the loan in 2 weeks, then maybe it is 20% but we all know that nobody does that. It's a trap. Predatory lending.

"You must invoke the EPP by close of business on the last business day before the advance due date by returning to the office where you obtained the advance or by using whatever method you used to obtain the advance. To invoke the EPP, you must sign an amendment to your agreement reflecting the new payment schedule."

Straight from the CFSA website....

You are not required to default and incurr additional bank NSF fees to enter into an EPP.

Big Skippy

Many peolple do exactly what you stated. There are also many that roll-over or pay-off and reloan in the same day. Unfortunately, 98% of the posters on this board do the second and that has gotten them in trouble. As the old saying goes, "The squeaky wheel get the oil". You only hear from the small percentage of people that have had issues and almost never hear from the masses that are content with a product or service. That is the way that most of the people are programmed in this country!

PDL Owner, you are right about the squeaky wheel. And I am glad to know that you try to work out reasonable payment plans for your customers. Other PDL's could learn from you.

LMAO at programmed! We do not live in a perfect world now do we :wink:

Nope, you just made that all up.

Straight from the horses patoot!

PDLOwner, I hope you know I'm only teasing and find this rather enjoyable.

I do have a question on your "invoke the EPP" statement, is it only for PDL's or does that also include installment?

I do need to go 7eleven and get a BiG GulP if we are going continue.

at the insurance office that I work in, we have clients who sometimes have to make a choice regarding PDL, borrowing from family, using credit cards with high overage fees, paying bank NSF fees, or just plain not paying the insurance. If they don't pay the policy (and this is talking about those paying on the last possible day to avoid a terminated policy, not just for a "late payment"), they have to start ALL over again with a new, 2-3X more expensive rate, run the risk of getting hit with a "financial responsibility" ticket, etc. Some people don't have the opportunity to borrow from friends and family, and the fees of the other options are way higher than a PDL. AS LONG AS THE PDL IS REPAYED QUICKLY, NOT ROLLED OVER, ETC. I see them as "once in a blue moon" loans, for people who REALLY need it, NOT as something to pay your monthly bills with.

That is definitely true, but thats in any business or service industry, complaints seem to be more popular than compliments. I think the current economy has spiked more of an issue with pdl lending as many people are feeling the squeeze!!! Look how long the price of gas was $4.00 or more a gallon..........food prices went up but salaries stayed the same. The company that I work for has announced there will be no raises this year!!!! The PDL Industry legal or illegal took a big hit with people defaulting!!!!! I made the decision to pay my legal lenders but I am sure there are families who could not keep up and defaulted. People are in business to make money but sometimes the human factor is forgotten or they are trained to stay firm but remember it is there job and they dont want to lose it. Things are tough right now in this country and most of the time financial issues can bring out the worst in all of us. Just my 2 cents (opinion lol)

Good discussion Kstaff and smo65d11

Great 2 cents!!! Our industry really did take a hit, but not just from defaults. We typically have a pretty big spike in December followed by a huge drop in February, neither was as significant this year. This is new territory for me, as I cannot recall a change in the historic trends in my 11 years in the business.

Urrrlacher,

I enjoy the "sparring" also. As to your question about the EPP and installment loans, I don't know. They are different products with different regulations and at this point, I have not dabbled in them.

Urrrlacher from my experience with installment loans they offer an exstension in payment versus and extended payment plan.

Your installment loan is already broken doen over a period of years to include the applicable interest and finace charges. So in default there are usually two options with an installment loan, payment exstension or or refinance. That is only my experience from having an installment loan with several companies.

I am sure others will post more information to furthur help answer your question.

Yeah, I figured because I do not recall reading anything like that, on a wall or documents, and I must default before entering any kind of EPP. As a matter of fact they will continue to try and ACH over and over and over just to build up more cash from returns and fees. Even though they know I closed my bank account.

If these companies are members of the CFSA, call them to find out if there is some sort of Deferred Plan for installment loans.

good points of view by all.i too like discussion.carry on.

Good idea PDLOwner. Maybe they can offer it based off of hardship. Its worth a shot :wink:

Well, I know that if I bounce a check and my bank charges me $34 O/D fee that is all I will be charged...no phone calls every 5 minutes, no phone calls to references, no phone calls to the office...and better yet, I won't be charged another $34 next week for that same O/D. AND ESPECIALLY... I won't be "downloaded!" lol

As I mentioned earlier...PDL's do offer a service...I just think (IMO) that it is too steep a price to pay. Someone mentioned "fuzzy math"...I tend to agree.

This transcript was just released from TMZ about tonight's airing of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Leno's guest tonight is President Barack Obama.


Jay Leno: good evening Mr. President, it's great to see you here tonight.

Barack Obama: Great to be here Jay

leno: I understand there is a bill being passed around that will either eliminate our put great restrictions on the Payday Loan and Installment loan industry...is that correct?

obama: That is correct Jay, we are a going to clean up this "Vampire Industry" We will hit them so hard they won't know which way is up, save for one...PDLOwner, we kinda like him (her?)


Wow, I just had the most amazing dream and.......... anyaroberts was there,
paulmergel was there,
kfstaff24 was there,
help coming our way was there,
smo 65d11 was there,
deseratelyseekingsanity was there
PDLOwner was there although he was removed from the audience by the secret service for heckling...kept shouting something about "it's on the WALL!?

:lol: :lol: That is too good. I cant stop laughing!

Now thats funny!!!!! :D

PDLowner was encouraged to join and post here, I would hate to think that he or she will feel alienated and stop posting ...

I hope that's not the case, I only mean well and am trying to add some humor.

Believe me, two weeks ago I was looking for rope and strong tree branch.

As a matter of fact PDLOwner has given me sound advise that has served me very well.

I am forever greatful to PDLOwner and the rest on this board.

I will stop with the sarcastic comments and failed attempts at humor.

I guess your not a HOF'er for nothing and thanks for setting me straight. I feel bad now

My idea is a lot more radical. I say we regulate the crap out of the legal ones so that they have to quit lending. As for the illegal ones( ameriloan, USfastcash, Cashtransfercenter, etc) I say we all take out the maximum loan they will give and then promtly close your bank account. Send them a letter that they are illegal and unlicensed and that you are revoking ACH withdrawals and wage assignments. Thay surely would cause them some problems. Maybe enough that they could not recover from. I also suggest that we close all the title loan places as well. Just keep the pawn shops open. That would make people really seriously think about losing their possessions for a few dollars. Just my radical 2 cents on closing down thes illegal sharks.