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Questions for Moderators

Date: Wed, 11/11/2009 - 08:27

Submitted by anonymous
on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 08:27

Posts: 202330 Credits: [Donate]

Total Replies: 23


Moderators,

What is your stance debtors who do not pay their debts.. Just wondering.


I am an ex-collector....collected on defaulted loans for almost a decade. There are always reasons that people default on their debts and some are not within an individuals control....lay offs, the economy and medical. I do not have a lot of patience for those that spend to the hilt and buy things they could not have afforded otherwise and then whine about debt. To me, parenthood and having children is NOT a reason for not paying your bills either....at least debts borrowed before having a family. I used to get a little ticked at people who borrowed massive amounts of student loans and then being a mommy came first. Sorry, but if you cannot pay your bills on one income, then you cannot afford to have a family. It is all priorities.


lrhall41

Submitted by SOAPLADY on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 09:00

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[SIZE=3]I am not a Mod but if you search my name you will see my opinion. I personally believe that if you borrow money from someone you should pay it back if you have the means but I want to heavily emphasize the responsibility that I believe the banks have on scrutinizing who they lend too. I think the banks and our government has been very irresponsible in their lending and borrowing practices. I think they have more responsibility than the individual in losses occurred when they loan money to people that have no income or low income, when they loan more than is obvious a person can pay, when they make irresponsible loans like 120% loans or high interest home arm loans and so on. Basically they dug their own grave in many cases. [/SIZE]


lrhall41

Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 09:02

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If a person should lose their job or encounter some other misfortune, I believe that creditors, after making a rational evaluation of the individual supported by documentation, should be willing to work out a plan that is reasonable for all parties. But, as Soaplady says, if a person lives on the edge with their spending and a little reality bump comes along, dig in, make sacrifices and settle your obligations. People on these reality shows (housewives) are in foreclosure and still go out to 100.00 lunches with their friends on a daily basis and keep buying more designer shoes and bags from top shelf retailers! What is wrong with that picture?
On the other side, I have nothing but disdain for junk debt collectors who make lives even more miserable with harrassment just to collect money thay was never owed to them in the first place without any consideration for the individuals situation or feelings.


lrhall41

Submitted by Frogpatch on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 10:28

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i would like to believe that most people dont just charge and not pay. i know there is, but i think most people genuinely want to pay thier bills. in my case i lost my job because i got pregnant ( i was told i couldnt have children which is why they hired me) and had a very risky pregnancy that cost me thousands in medical bills that my insurance did not cover, and had to stop working at 5 months to be on bed rest due to i went into preterm labor. on top of that my baby was born sick so he was in the hospital for a few months after he was born. I knew before things would be tight, but all the extra time off of work and new bills and medical expenses finally cought up to me. But in all honesty i was in trouble long before i got pregnant. My job transfered me somewere a hour away without a payraise so i had to get back and forth to work and this is when gas was 4.00 a gallon. so i was using cards and such to get by.

I honestly believe that most people are not out there buying 300.00 designer shoes and sort, i know some are but most people like me in my area dont we use credit for major appliances breaking, car repairs, necessities and sort.

And keep in mind alot of parents do not educate thier children financial responsibility anylonger EVERYONE i believe before the recession was pretty much living beyond thier means something that they had gotten accustomed to.


lrhall41

Submitted by love_my_things on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 11:49

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I am not a moderator, but I am an employer and I know what many people do with their incomes and how they attempt to manage their money. Most people charge, charge, and charge because they know they can make the minimum payments because they must "keep up with the Jone's". When they lose their job or get a divorce, those minimum payments strangle them. If some of you believe most people are smart with their money and want to pay their debts, visit the nearest Walmart and watch how many people use their charge cards for "unnecessary" items. Everybody wastes money from time to time, however, most people have no idea how much they are really wasting. For instance, I overheard a women talking about losing her job recently while she was shopping for new glamour magazines. Or another man who just had to have a PS3 to keep him busy while he was searching for work. All that crap adds up and so do those minimum payments. Who's fault is it then? The economy? The employers? The government? The banks? Your parents? I just wish I was the CEO of Visa or Mastercard because it would be too easy to get rich off way too many stupid people.

Some of you may have special cases, but most of you do not. I'm willing to bet, most of the people on this forum are just terrible spenders and/or horrible money-managers and they visit this forum to find a way to beat the system. If you don't believe me, go to the forum link about "scams". Way too many people are looking for get-rich-quick schemes because they are way over their heads in debt.

Feel free to bash me but you know I'm right.


lrhall41

Submitted by tap_n_birdie on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 12:30

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I too came to this forum with a legit (i think ) question.
What I found was people trying so hard to find ways to get out of paying debts and sort of bragging about it. People trying to in a way "beat the system"
I suppose for any sound advice you need to go to people who are knowledgable regarding finance.
I think that this site is more for bashing and complaining than anything else.


lrhall41

Submitted by on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:20

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WOW I am not a deadbeat.... I lost my job in '07... Decided to take some time off from working.. And no I did not charge up my CCs after I became unemployed for the heck of it. Serious illness struck my parents and have been taking care of them... My dad passed away last year and my mom is still fighting. Yeah I did not ask to be put in my current situation that I am in now. I hate people who make me feel really bad about my situation. They have probably never walked a mile in my shoes.


lrhall41

Submitted by Kristi Branstetter on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:39

( Posts: 48 | Credits: )


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristi Branstetter
WOW I am not a deadbeat.... I lost my job in '07... Decided to take some time off from working.. And no I did not charge up my CCs after I became unemployed for the heck of it. Serious illness struck my parents and have been taking care of them... My dad passed away last year and my mom is still fighting. Yeah I did not ask to be put in my current situation that I am in now. I hate people who make me feel really bad about my situation. They have probably never walked a mile in my shoes.


This is why I said I try to look at the whole picture. It's too easy to answer this question with a generalization.


lrhall41

Submitted by Shazzers on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:52

( Posts: 17344 | Credits: )


Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I too came to this forum with a legit (i think ) question.
What I found was people trying so hard to find ways to get out of paying debts and sort of bragging about it. People trying to in a way "beat the system"
I suppose for any sound advice you need to go to people who are knowledgable regarding finance.
I think that this site is more for bashing and complaining than anything else.


wow.....

I can tell you first hand that we do see some people in here that are trying to get out of paying their debts. But I can also tell you first hand that it is NOT the position of this forum that people should avoid legitimate debts. At no time have I or any other moderators that I have seen EVER advocated that people should skip out on a debt that they know they legitimately owe.

That being said, I think that dolores needs a very serious education into what the debt collection world actually is these days. It isnt even enough for a person to know they owe a debt anymore--now it needs to be proven that the debt collector on the phone has a legal right to collect that debt! DO NOT BLAME CONSUMERS FOR THIS FACT---it is COLLECTION AGENCIES that, through their greedy illegal actions, have forced laws like the FDCPA into being in the first place.

I can sum it up like this-if Joe Smith has a debt, and XYZ debt collector calls him demanding money for that debt 10 years later, my first advice to Joe is to demand that they validate the debt. Nowadays, solely because of debt collectors and their scam tactics, we need to verify that XYZ has the right to collect this debt. If you cannot understand that, dolores, consider this--suppose you had a $1000 credit card debt. Several years go by, and that debt is now up to $4200. You get a call from a debt collector that claims that they are now collecting on this debt, so you pay them $3600 as a settlement to make this go away. PROBLEM--you just paid a debt collector that scammed you--they didnt actually have assignment or ownership of this debt. So the debt is STILL NOT PAID OFF and you just lost $3600 to a THIEF. Think this isnt real? Think again--for some time it happened on a daily basis in this country. All a debt collector needs to do is buy your basic ID information from basically just about anywhere, access your credit report, and then claim to be collecting on a debt that is listed on your credit report. Why do you think that the laws against that behavior exist? They didnt exist until shady crook debt collectors acted in this manner. So I advise Joe to request validation via certified mail. Now, once again, thanks to the debt collection industry's greedy and shady tactics, most CA's wont validate, but will continue trying to collect. That breaks the law. And now, Joe can sue them for FDCPA violations--which is what I will tell him at that point.

So far, I have personally been harassed by no less than four debt collectors over the last few years, for the same debt. The first time I was able to prove to the debt collector that I didnt ever live in the state where the debt originated. I was also able to prove through my signature and photo that I was NOT the person who took out a car loan. In speaking with the original creditor, they had not one single clue who I was or any knowledge about this so-called debt, even though the debt collector at the time stated to me that the OC still owned it and they were hired by this original creditor to collect the debt. The CA and OC both agreed that I did not owe this debt and the matter was closed.....or so I thought. The same debt showed up on a credit report less than a year later by a second debt collector. I requested that they validate the debt. They responded with a forged--yes, I said forged--signature on a falsified "original loan contract". The lender on the loan contract wasnt even the same as the original creditor that they claimed the loan originated with, thats how ridiculous this was. I provided them copies of all the documentation that I got from the OC and the first CA, which stated that they knew I did not have this account at all. This debt collector insisted that I made those documents up and hounded me for months. I finally threatened to sue them and showed them all the laws they were breaking, and suddenly they told me that this matter was closed. It didnt end there either--they sold it even though they knew it was bogus, and ANOTHER CA gave me the same runaround. Once I finally got them to get cranium out of sphincter, they in turn sold it AGAIN to ANOTHER bottom feeder junk debt buyer.

So dont come in here and tell me that this place is nothing but people full of excuses and trying to beat the system. By your post, I would say that you probably work for a debt collector, so perhaps if you had a clue how to follow the law and do your job there wouldnt be a need for this website in the first place. Bet you never thought of it that way before....:rolleyes:


lrhall41

Submitted by skydivr7673 on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:03

( Posts: 2036 | Credits: )


I am not a moderator, just a drive by poster for a while now.

I cannot help but weigh in on this though.

I have worked with consumers who are struggling financially for many years.

Obtaining credit through a contract, such as a credit card account, is done with 2 parties who both are accepting certain risk factors at the time of their agreement.

The creditor risks not being paid back and can rely on the agreement and its terms to seek recovery of the unpaid debt.

The consumer risks a life event or even succumbing to irresponsible behavior that may later result in the inability to pay their debts. The consumer similarly has options when contemplating the path they choose to get out of debt.

On a sophistication scale of 1-10 the creditor is at the high end while the consumer is at the low end. The creditor is who developed the sophisticated credit product and because of this I tend to place a higher degree of accountability with the creditor.

Your question, survivor 23, has so far been generally interpreted by those who have responded as one of morality/responsibility.

The creditor lives by a moral that in its simplest form = profit motive.
The consumer in a financial dilemma , now more than ever, find themselves with a moral in its simplest form = survival motive.

The agreement between creditor and debtor will govern the risks and responsibilities carried by each. The morality is entirely subjective and can easily be argued from both sides.
One persons idea of something immoral is another persons idea of opportunity (this is true for both the creditor and debtor).

If placing the morals, profit and survival, in a cage match - I think survival wins every time.

All this being said, Shaz's answer is short and to the point.


Mileage may vary


lrhall41

Submitted by on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:30

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Actually I do not work for a debt collector.
I am in my own business that has nothing to do with debt collecting.
No need to be so nasty. Cant a person state their observations


Observations?? Sure, if you had used a factual example. Show me one thread in this forum where you see people trying to get out of paying what they admit they owe, to the people they admit they owe it to, and moderators supporting their decision. When you cannot find one, perhaps your "observation" will be a little different, and more accurate as well. I have personally seen others do this and done it myself--when someone comes in looking to beat the system, we have told them that they are obligated to pay any legitimate bills they owe. When you come in here making such false statements, why on earth would you expect people to be nice in return?


lrhall41

Submitted by skydivr7673 on Wed, 11/11/2009 - 20:38

( Posts: 2036 | Credits: )


just my two cents but i seem to think the complaint is more about how the cc companies change the rules as they feel like it. for example say you get a cc and you agree to a 1,000 available balance with a 9% interest rate so you agree. and you charge. i have no issues paying interest on money borrowed. but here is were alot of people including me get into trouble and this is why i stay away from ccs now. ok when the economy took a dump there was post after post of stories like this one im about to say.

economy crappens. you never have been late and have charged say 500.00 on that 1000 card. Now by no fault of your own they reduce your line to 500.00 and raise your apr to 15.00% so now your credit score begins to drop because you used all your available credit. Now the cc company conviently charges thier anual fee of say 50.00 now putting you over your limit and charging you 50.00 for over the limit and taking your rate to 29%. well now you have to come up with like 150.00-200.00 to pay in this card instead of say like 50.00 to get it well below the 500.00 or pay it off and this is were people get into trouble they cant come up with that 150.00 and start to sink. This is what makes people angry is thier greed. I dont think MOST people mind paying a decent % back for which they could borrow but its gotten to the point were the cc companies have gotten crazy greedy hurting all of us.

I am aware there are some that charge and dont want to pay back, but i do try myself to keep a open mind as to how people get into trouble and frankly even if it was a dumb stupid moment on thier part it doesnt make it less scary. I would not advocate anyone to charge up all thier cards and then file bk, that is wrong and i have even mentioned to some posters that are about to start settlement that charging them all up cause you know you are not gonna pay it back is fraud and the credit card places will call you out on it and take your butt to court real fast.

so i would say that the moderators have also been informative to posters who have had these intentions and have told them exactly what is most likely gonna happen and not in a very nice way.


lrhall41

Submitted by love_my_things on Thu, 11/12/2009 - 09:59

( Posts: 1434 | Credits: )


[SIZE=3]My wife managed to get herself mixed up with Cash Today Limited which is a scam overseas PDL company. If you don???t know who they are or how evil they are then go in the PDL section and look for the one company with the most pages of posts. After I finished ripping her butt I found this site by researching the company. I personally think all PDL???s should be illegal and I have never used one. I also am very good with my money and have no credit card debt. I have a small car loan and a mortgage. My wife on the other hand is financially challenged which sometimes causes hassles for me. She has no active credit cards but her credit is wrecked and some of it has spilled into my credit. I end up fighting with junk debt buyers long enough to find out who they are and send DV letters and CD letters. Overall though I think most people end up on this site because they are either being hounded by a junk debt buyer, they are being hounded by pay day loan companies or they had some catastrophic events occur in their lives which leave them unable to pay debt. In all three cases I have zero sympathy for the companies that loaned out the money in the first place especially since they are probably hounding someone that is already at a very difficult position financially. [/SIZE]


lrhall41

Submitted by DOLLARSandSINCE on Thu, 11/12/2009 - 12:41

( Posts: 1078 | Credits: )


Quote:

Originally Posted by tap_n_birdie
I am not a moderator, but I am an employer and I know what many people do with their incomes and how they attempt to manage their money. Most people charge, charge, and charge because they know they can make the minimum payments because they must "keep up with the Jone's". When they lose their job or get a divorce, those minimum payments strangle them. If some of you believe most people are smart with their money and want to pay their debts, visit the nearest Walmart and watch how many people use their charge cards for "unnecessary" items. Everybody wastes money from time to time, however, most people have no idea how much they are really wasting. For instance, I overheard a women talking about losing her job recently while she was shopping for new glamour magazines. Or another man who just had to have a PS3 to keep him busy while he was searching for work. All that crap adds up and so do those minimum payments. Who's fault is it then? The economy? The employers? The government? The banks? Your parents? I just wish I was the CEO of Visa or Mastercard because it would be too easy to get rich off way too many stupid people.

Some of you may have special cases, but most of you do not. I'm willing to bet, most of the people on this forum are just terrible spenders and/or horrible money-managers and they visit this forum to find a way to beat the system. If you don't believe me, go to the forum link about "scams". Way too many people are looking for get-rich-quick schemes because they are way over their heads in debt.

Feel free to bash me but you know I'm right.

Why are you on here??? Seriously... I do not in the least believe that MOST people are just terrible spenders and that MOST people are such poor money managers. Not to mention that seriously if someone lost their job and wants to buy a glamour magazine to make them feel better so be it... who are you to judge?


lrhall41

Submitted by tyleeash on Thu, 11/12/2009 - 13:28

( Posts: 143 | Credits: )


Because it makes them feel morally and financially superior. Then they come on here to get validation from others to support their superiority complex. They also appear to enjoy kicking others while they're down, and painting "most" with such a broad brush. For me, it takes too much time and energy to be so judgemental all the time. I would think that people who are not experiencing financial hardships (and who do not want to help other people) would rather be out enjoying their lives and focusing on positive things.


lrhall41

Submitted by SugarSugar on Thu, 11/12/2009 - 13:46

( Posts: 101 | Credits: )


I know alot of people in this forum are now financially alot better but like being here to help others through thier tough times. im not were i want to be, but im much better than i was, i tdont really need to be here at this point in my life but it makes me feel better that i can make a scary situation not so scary for someone that may be going through a tough time.

If you honest to god got into a mess such as most people here its scary and alot of times people feel like a criminal or a looser for it. I like being here more for moral support but have learned alot along the way that makes me better financially now more than ever.

I know quite a few people on this forum that genuinely just want to help people and in return they feel better about themselves. myself included.


lrhall41

Submitted by love_my_things on Fri, 11/13/2009 - 05:41

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