BOfA again ! ever heard of this? **
Date: Fri, 11/12/2010 - 16:00
**he took time to explain to me that one of the accounts is still 3 months from charge off (so i can miss 2-3 more payments on it before c/o), one is 2 months from charge off (can miss one or possibly 2 payments ) and 1 is due for charge off (amex) at end of november. and that i need to make a payment by nov 30 (which was lots less pay than she had told me on that account) to keep it out of charge off, and keep in touch with him directly, that he will keep all 3 accounts in his office so that they will not be charged off unless i do not contact him in december to make another payment. he also stated that at this point, he can offer settlement on any or all of them at 33%, and that offer is good as long as i work with him enough to keep them all from being charged off. also if we have any extra money we could use to do a settlement, we could call and offer that amount (if less than 33%) and see if we can get a settlement done. he said since we have 3 accounts, he would work one settlement at a time if that is what we had to do, instead of trying to settle them all too close together. he told me if anyone calls from boa/fia, ii could give them his ext # and tell them i will only speak to him. i told him he is the only one i have EVER spoken to there that actually listened to what i was saying and willing to work with us & i will not speak to anyone else in the future other than him. he was saying the lady was probably having a frustrating day, and i told him "she thinks she is frustrated- i have major anxiety and panic attacks, and she just made it worse"..
i know as low as the payment is, most of it will go to interest and a little to the balance, but it keeps it out of charge-off for a month or two, which gives us time to get ready to file taxes, and once we know how much we are getting back- we can start negotiating settlements. i am hoping for 20%....
yes, people do not realize that you WANT them to charge off. Th
yes, people do not realize that you WANT them to charge off. That is when they work with you and NOT before. Not sure about 20% but there is not much difference between 20 and 30, which you should get. I mean, it's still 70% off and that's a pretty good sale price. Good luck to you. As far as the phone calls, collectors suck...plain and simple. They will call family, friends, employers, business associates...anything if they think they can shame you into settling.
No not all collectors suck. There are a lot of good ones out th
No not all collectors suck. There are a lot of good ones out there.....I was one of them. People who worked with me had no reason to post on boards like this....the good ones dont get the recognition.
dantheman & soaplady, does that mean i should just let them char
dantheman & soaplady, does that mean i should just let them charge off the accounts as time comes and risk them sending them for legal action or other? the balance on the one facing end of month charge off is around $3100, and he said right now 33% would be $1023. if i do not make a payment by nov 30 on that one, i worry that they would go ahead and charge off all 3, and with a total balance between 10k-11k, they may take legal action. if we can settle all 3 at 33% or less, we would have a little money left from tax refund, but if they charge off and we have to pay higher settlement, we would not be able to settle all 3, and may not be able to anyway depending on how much refund we get. i can not pay out all of our refund, need some in bank for medical expenses.. i have read other post here that say you want to settle BEFORE they are charged off, which i have no money to do right now. we have lots more cards that we have to do settlements with too, but those banks did set us up on hardship plans. bofa is the only bank who would not work with us on hardship plan, so they do not get paid. we also have 3 in collections, 2 of which shouldnt even be there to begin with. we had signed on with a settlement company (care one), which told us they would not notify creditors until they received our first payment. they lied ! within 48 hours of signing up with careone, read over all the documents with a fine tooth comb, called back and cancelled enrollment. within the 48 hours they HAD SENT LETTERS to all creditors. discover turned over our 2 accounts to them. mind you we were current and had never been late, never missed a payment on those accounts. tried to contact discover, but the phones automatically transferred calls to z & a.. so we had no choice but to pay thru collections. i reported discover to ftc and consumer credit & bbb. if i can get approved this time for ssdi, problem solved... if i get denied again and have to keep fighting for ssdi, i have a plan there too... while working settlements with bofa, will have to stop paying some of the cards that are on payment plans & deal with them at near charge off..sorry folks, i am stressed, depressed and having panic attacks & currently confused...
OK, soaplady you are one of the few b/c following a lifetime of
OK, soaplady you are one of the few b/c following a lifetime of comfort I have dealt with many over 18 months and mostly they have sucked. They will call friends, relatives and threaten you with lawyers, court, losing everything. I'm pretty sure one of them said he was going to beat it out of me...but maybe that was a nightmare. So you can defend them if you want. We just disagree.
Generalee, celebrate each victory and keep moving forward at the pace you can. This has been the most difficult year of my life. BUT, I have found out who my friends are and learned that my wife (who likes things) still loves me broke and homeless (sortof).
Regarding chargeoff.... IF you receive a settlement offer before charge off that you can live with, by all means take it. The only thing I am saying is that some will not talk until after charge off. Wells Fargone just kept trying to get money out of me with every call on my HELOC until the day it charged off. They would not even discuss settlement. Just longer payment schedules (like 30 freaking years) and stuff like that. It charged off and one week later I was deep in settlement talks which eventually forgave $80k of a $98k debt.
Just keep picturing your life without these burdens....and focus on the prize. I will be almost there on March 15 after feeling ready to jump off a bridge 2 years ago. Hang in there.
They should be careful about leaving you messages at work. They
They should be careful about leaving you messages at work. They are not allowed to give out information about your obligations. So if your employer has the ability to check your voice messages, for example if you are out sick then that could present a problem.
FYI...this is BOFA calling, not a CA. The FDCPA doesnt apply t
FYI...this is BOFA calling, not a CA. The FDCPA doesnt apply to them unless state law says so. Thus they can leave whatever message they want.
when they called my spouses work, they left a message with someo
when they called my spouses work, they left a message with someone who answered the phone, not on a voice mail. the message included BOFA, ladies name, phone & extension number. i told the man at bofa that was polite, that my spouse could lose (sp) job if this happened again -- which he knows this would not be good for bofa. a couple of days ago, house phone rang a couple of different times and it was one of bofa toll free numbers showing "toll free call". i know it was them, cause i have searched those same numbers online and saw it is them. the second time i answered, but i guess it is set to disconnect after 4 rings, so i got a dial tone. i was about to go off on them once again, and tell them they need to talk to mr X like he told me to do.
If they are causing your phone to ring and then not leaving a me
If they are causing your phone to ring and then not leaving a message then clearly they should not be calling or it is harassment. No one is free to leave whatever message or not with you or it is harassment. Whether or not it falls under FDCPA is beside the point. It appears you have chosen not to answer your phone which is your right. If they don't want to leave you a voice mail then they should stop calling otherwise it is harassment.
[QUOTE]
What makes a phone call harassing?
When someone calls and uses obscene or threatening language, or even heavy breathing or silence to intimidate you, you are receiving a harassing call.
[/QUOTE]
You should send them a letter detailing how and where they can contact you and where they should not contact you.
It is the original credit calling....the FDCPA does not apply to
It is the original credit calling....the FDCPA does not apply to them. Leaving a message saying just their company name does NOT imply a debt. Nor are they required to leave a message.
Sending them a letter as you suggest will only result in their account being directly forwarded to an attorney.
Gretchen, you need to get your facts straight. First, as SOAP s
Gretchen, you need to get your facts straight. First, as SOAP said, this is the original creditor calling. FDCPA doesn't apply as they are NOT a 3rd party collector. Also, if you're screening your calls and not answering the phone, that's NOT harrassment.
OhioGal1 I do have my facts straight. Many people are guilty of
OhioGal1 I do have my facts straight. Many people are guilty of making harassing pone calls that have nothing to do with debt.
Are you implying that the only people who can prosecuted for harassment are debt collectors and everyone else can do as they please?
Read this to learn what the repercussions are for harassment:
Moderator, any harassment can become criminal harassment. What is it with you people? You think that just because someone is a debt collector they are immune from the other laws.
What do you think makes it criminal harassment? Do you think it means some creep from a back alley harassing someone. Is that what you think criminal harassment is?
ANYONE can commit criminal harassment. Your exboyfriend, your lover, your best friend, your mother, ALL are subject to criminal harassment charges if they cross the line.
If ANYONE calls you repeatedly and refuses to leave a message but just calls right back I don't care if your are the queen of england or the pope or Mother Teresa. If you hassle someone on the phone IT'S HARASSMENT. There are no exceptions in the law that say "if you are a teacher you can never be convicted of harassment'.
Don't believe me, go ahead and hassle someone and see how long it takes for the cops to pay you a visit.
I won't continue to argue with you but I know AND YOU KNOW there are no OPT OUTS for harassment charges.
"I'm sorry officer, I'm not guilty of harassment because only criminals harass people and I'm no criminal".
You're funny Moderator. Like I said, I don't care who it is, if you annoy and harass someone YOU TOO CAN BE A CRIMINAL.
[COLOR=Blue]
[/COLOR]
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Harassment.htm
The FDCPA is not the only law on the books that prohibits harassment. There is a whole other world out there with rules and guidelines that have nothing to do with debt collection but instead with what is legal and ethical to do to anyone, not just debtors. Protection from harassment is not limited to those in debt. The FDCPA governs who can be fined for harassing you for a debt. Whether you collect under the FDCPA for phone harassment is beside the point. The point is they are harassing you.
[QUOTE]
Obscene or harassing phone calls can be one of the most stressful and frightening invasions of privacy a person experiences. And unwanted phone calls, while a minor problem when compared with threatening calls, can still be a major inconvenience. Fortunately, there are steps you can take to help put an end to these unwelcome intrusions.
What makes a phone call harassing?
When someone calls and uses obscene or threatening language, or even heavy breathing or silence to intimidate you, you are receiving a harassing call.
How often do I have to get these calls to make it harassment?
Just one unwelcome call can be harassing; but usually your local phone company will not take action unless the calls are frequent. However, if a call specifically threatens you or your family with bodily harm, the phone company will generally take immediate action.
Local phone companies have varying policies on whether to call the phone company or the police first. Some recommend that you first call the phone company's business office and explain the problem. A representative will connect you with the "annoyance desk." Other phone companies may require you to file a formal complaint with local law enforcement before they will deal with the matter. To find out what your phone company's policy is, contact the business office of your phone carrier and ask for assistance.
For serious threats, if life or property is threatened, or if calls are obscene, you should call the police and file a report.
Provide as much information to law enforcement as you can. Indicate the gender of the caller and describe the caller's voice:
- Note the time and date of the call(s).
- What did the caller say?
- How old did he / she sound?
- Did the caller seem intoxicated?
- Did he / she have an accent or speech impediment?
- Was there any background noise?
- Was a phone number / name displayed on the Caller ID device?
What can my local phone company do if I am receiving harassing calls (land line)?
If the calls are frequent or particularly threatening and you have a land line, the phone company can set up a "Trap" on your phone line. The Trap allows the phone company to determine the telephone number from which the harassing calls originate. You must keep a log noting the time and date the harassing calls are received. Traps are usually set up for no more than two weeks. The phone company does not charge a fee for Traps.
A phone company service called Call Trace may also be able to help track down harassing calls. Immediately after receiving a harassing call, you enter the code *57 on your phone and the calls are automatically traced (1157 on rotary phones). Call Trace is easier than using a Trap since the customer does not have to keep a phone log. But Call Trace technology works only within the local service area. (Look in the "Customer Guide" section of the phone book or the phone company's Web site for a description of your local service area.)
Call Trace must be set up in advance by the individual receiving harassing calls and it requires a fee for use. However, in situations where the phone company would ordinarily use a Trap, you might not be charged if the phone company suggests that Call Trace be used as an alternative. Be sure to ask. The information collected from Call Trace or from a Trap is turned over to law enforcement personnel, not the customer. Law enforcement officers try to stop the harassing calls by either warning or arresting the harasser. With both Call Trace and a Trap, your phone conversations are not listened to or recorded by the phone company.
What can my cellular phone company do if I am receiving harassing calls?
Every carrier is different. Contact your carrier to inquire about what options may be available to you.
Is the phone company always able to solve harassing phone call problems?
No. If the caller uses a phone booth or multiple phone lines, the phone company and law enforcement officials may never get enough identification to take further action. In cases like these, changing your phone number might help. Also, you might want to get an unlisted or unpublished number. In addition, the tips listed below for discouraging other types of unwanted calls may be of help.
What can I do to stop harassing calls without going to the phone company or police?
First, simply hang up on the caller. Do not engage in conversation. Typical crank callers are seeking attention. You have "made their day" if you say something to them or express shock or anger.
If the silent treatment does not work, you might try putting a message like this on your voice mail system: "I'm sorry I / we can't come to the phone right now but you must leave a message. I / we are receiving annoyance calls and the phone company has a trap on this line. If you do not leave a message I / we will assume that you are the annoyance caller and this call will be traced."
If you answer the phone and the harassing caller is on the line, another suggestion is to say: "Operator, this is the call." Then hang up. Or say the word "trap," what time it is and the date; then hang up.
What is the "pressure valve" strategy?
Some threatening calls are part of a larger pattern of abuse, such as stalking. Some experts recommend in these situations to get a new phone number, but keep the phone number being called by the harasser and attach a voice mail machine or message service to that line. Turn the phone's ringer off and don't use that phone line for anything other than capturing the calls of the harasser.
This is the pressure valve strategy. The harasser will continue to call the unused number and will think that he / she is getting through. Instead, you are simply using the number to gather evidence. You will want to save tape recordings of the calls. Get another phone number for your use, and be sure it's unlisted and unpublished. Give the number to trusted friends and relatives only. Do not give it to your bank, credit card company or credit bureau. Put passwords on all of your phone accounts (local, long distance, and mobile). Tell the phone companies in writing that they must not disclose any account information to anyone but yourself, and only when the correct password is given.
What precautions can I take to prevent harassment?
- Do not disclose personal information when called by someone you do not know. He / she might be checking out the residence for possible robbery or other crime. If the caller asks what number he / she has called, do not give it. Instead, ask what number the caller dialed.
- To prevent being targeted for obscene calls and heavy breathing, women should only list their first initial and last name in the phone directory. Having an unlisted number is another option.
- Children should be instructed to never reveal information to unknown callers. Instead, they should be taught to record the caller's name and phone number along with date and time.
- Do not include your telephone number on the outgoing message of your voice mail service if you wish to keep your number private. By omitting your phone number from your message, you prevent random dialers and people with Call Return from capturing this information.
How can I stop telemarketing calls?
The most effective and easiest way to prevent telemarketing calls is to register your home and personal phone number(s) with the National Do Not Call Registry operated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Since 2003, residents have been able to put residential telephone number(s) including cellular numbers on the opt-out list. According to the FTC, registration with the Do Not Call list will reduce the number of telemarketing calls you receive by 80 percent.
You can sign up for the Do Not Call Registry two ways:
- The FTC's toll-free phone number is 888-382-1222 (TTY: 866-290-4236)
- Online registration is available at the FTC's Web site.
Sometimes my phone rings and there is no one on the line. What is happening?
Many people are frightened when they receive "hang-up" calls. They wonder if someone is harassing them or if a burglar is checking to see if they are home. In most cases, these calls are from telemarketers.
Many telemarketers use "predictive dialing" technology to call consumers. A computer dials many phone numbers in a short period of time. When an individual answers, the computer seeks a sales representative who is not occupied at that time and connects the call. If all of the sales reps are on calls, the consumer hears dead silence. These are "abandoned calls."
If you are receiving many abandoned calls a day, you can call the annoyance department of your local phone company and ask that a Trap be placed on your line. In extreme situations, the phone company might be willing to contact the offending telemarketer and request that your phone number be place on its "do not call" list. If the repeated calls are from a malicious individual who is harassing you rather than a telemarketer, the phone company will report the number to law enforcement as described in the beginning of this guide.
Also, your phone company can change your phone number especially if it is a relatively new number for you and it seems that the reason you are getting most of these annoying calls is because they are directed to or as the result of whoever had the phone number before you did. There may be a charge to change your phone number but that is negotiable with your phone company. Many times your phone company will change your phone number free of charge if the annoying or harassing phone calls are to a newly assigned number for you and so therefore they are the result of the phone number having been previously assigned to someone else. [/QUOTE]
No, I'm stating outright that if you owe a debt, a debt collecto
No, I'm stating outright that if you owe a debt, a debt collector has every right to call you. If you are dodging their phone calls by screening and not picking up the phone, you can't then cry "harrassment" because of the repeated calls.
Ohio Gal I disagree. I am the one who pays my phone bill and b
Ohio Gal I disagree. I am the one who pays my phone bill and buys the equipment to place and receive calls. I do so for my own convenience and as such I am entitled to decide with whom I speak. :rolleyes:
If someone is harassing me and they end up getting sentenced to incarceration for harassment the fact that it did not fall under FDCPA will be of little comfort to the incarcerated.
Harassment may very well be a felony which surpasses a $1,000 fine. See below:
Harassment is an offense which can have severe penalties. State Laws governing harassment vary by state. Here is an example contained in a portion of one state's statutes:
[QUOTE]
S 240.30 Aggravated harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or she:
[LIST=1]
Aggravated harassment in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
S 240.31 Aggravated harassment in the first degree.
A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the first degree when with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, because of a belief or perception regarding such person`s race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct, he or she:
[LIST=1]
Aggravated harassment in the first degree is a class E felony. [/QUOTE]
Here is a link which outlines the possible penalties for harassm
Here is a link which outlines the possible penalties for harassment according to various state statutes. Please note they do not depend on FDCPA statutes in order to be enforceable.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Harassment.htm
It it's not orginal debtor calling as BOFA would not have info f
It it's not orginal debtor calling as BOFA would not have info from AMEX (....and 1 is due for charge off (amex) at end of november..... )
Sounds to me generallee that you got cought into good cop bed cop rutine from CA.
If you are gonig to pay them before charge off they will never settle. They will just keep caling and asking for more.
...she only mentioned settlement being available after 3 months of payments ... - bullcrap - and nice trick I must say. Don't belive her.
Gretchen, I disagree. If you owe someone money and they are cal
Gretchen, I disagree. If you owe someone money and they are calling you to try to collect that money, I don't view that as harrassment. If they call your house an no one answers the phone, then it's fine for them to call back later to try to speak with someone in person rather than leaving a message. If you choose to screen your phone calls, you can hardly claim harrassment because, the fact is - you owe these people money. If you would pick up the phone and talk to them, they wouldn't keep calling. It goes both ways. It's not unreasonable for the caller to assume that, if no one answers, you're not at home - therefore making the decision to try again later. If you choose to screen, that's your choice but, you can't claim harrassment.
I don't mean to belabor the discussion of what constitutes crimi
I don't mean to belabor the discussion of what constitutes criminal harassment however one of the Moderators sent me a note that I am confused about what constitutes criminal harassment. Ultimately the only way to know, given the variations in local and state laws, what you can get away with is to be reckless and do as you please. Personally, there's nobody I want to contact that badly that I am going to take a chance on being accused of criminal harassment. Even if I'm found innocent, there is still my name in the paper of my having been accused.
The fact that I MAY OWE SOMEONE MONEY does not mean that they can operate without restraint.
Think about OJ Simpson, he's in prison now probably for the rest of his life. He went to collect some stuff that he thought was his and may indeed have been his but he still is in prison. Whether the guy had OJ's stuff or not was not the issue. OJ's conduct was the issue.
This is NOT JUST MY OPINION. I have provided links to information which gives credibility to my thoughts. I don't understand why so many people are resisting the idea that you can get into trouble calling someone repeatedly who does not want to be called.
Just because you think you are not a criminal does not mean you can't be accused, its that simple.
I must respectfully disagree. It may not be my intention to cause anyone harm or to threaten them. My feelings about what I'm doing are not the only consideration. If the person I'm contacting feels threatened and complains then I can be charged with criminal harassment. Whether or not I would be convicted remains to be seen but does anyone want to take a chance on being charged with criminal harassment? I would not enjoy being put on the spot like that.
You do not need to be calling someone threatening to kill them in order to be charged with criminal harassment. It may be conduct that YOU consider harmless but its the effect on others that may determine if you get charged or not. Why take a chance?
Here's an example of someone who apparently didn't do anything violent or threatening yet still may face charges of criminal harassment.
http://forum.freeadvice.com/arrests-searches-warrants-procedure-26/accusation-criminal-harassment-373774.html
OhioGal1....If you READ what the OP said you would pick up on th
OhioGal1....If you READ what the OP said you would pick up on the fact that this is a major stress in his life:
Quote:
while working settlements with bofa, will have to stop paying some of the cards that are on payment plans & deal with them at near charge off..sorry folks, i am stressed, depressed and having panic attacks & currently confused... |
What may stress you or me or your neighbor to the breaking point may be different from what stresses the OP to the breaking point. He says he is "depressed" and "having panic attacks".
Knowing that he is under this kind of stress and continuing to call anyway is a criminal act.
I hate to bring this up because you seem unwilling to accept that you could be guilty of harassment but it could go beyond that. If, for example, the person you insisted on calling were to have a heart attack and either die or become disabled you could be in even worse trouble.
It's up to you, do as you please if you are in that situation. But the law clearly says that just because you say someone owes you money does not mean that you are free to do whatever pleases you no matter how the effect may be on the person you call.
Anyone can become guilty of a criminal charge. You weren't charged with criminal wrongdoing until you did "the act" and then you were. Criminals come in all shapes sizes and colors. You do not have to be a raving maniacal madman to be charged with criminal misconduct.
There's little point in discussing it further because I've given you examples and links to support what I'm saying while you on the other hand just refuse to believe that if someone owes you money you still can't do whatever you like.:rolleyes:
Debts are civil....the FDCPA invokes CIVIL penalties for violati
Debts are civil....the FDCPA invokes CIVIL penalties for violations. Now if a bill collector comes to your home and pulls a gun, well that is criminal act. Plus he can be sued civilly under the FDCPA.
So absent a gun no one shall ever be convicted of criminal charg
So absent a gun no one shall ever be convicted of criminal charges? Is that what you're saying? Despite my giving links to valid opinions and laws you still insist that being a bill collector removes restraints of conduct.
I provided a link to a young man facing criminal harassment charges by virtue of his use of the phone. He had no gun.
Failure to acknowledge the evidence I've presented when you have given nothing but an opinion is an interesting study in Denial. If you want to push the envelope, be my guest. Go ahead, make my day. (That's a quote from a Clint Eastwood movie about a character who was into pushing his luck).
Evidence trumps opinion.
http://forum.freeadvice.com/arrests-searches-warrants-procedure-26/accusation-criminal-harassment-373774.html
The way I see it, if someone is calling you because you owe a de
The way I see it, if someone is calling you because you owe a debt (whether or not you are screening your calls) this is a legitimate call, unless you've sent a cease and desist letter to a 3rd party. They have the right to call to collect.
NOW, if when they call they threaten you with bodily harm, then I would consider that as criminal harrassment.
Even though the constant calls are annoying, inconvenient, exasperating - you are receiving them because you owe a debt. If one receives calls from someone to whom you don't owe a debt, then that's harrassment.
There is a fine line between harrassment and collection. I have
There is a fine line between harrassment and collection. I have experienced it, as well. One collector in particular was not sympathetic when I told them about the wealthy builder in my town who jumped off the Interstate bridge last year, after his business went from boom to bust in 18 months and he could not deal with the debt. I went on to tell him that he could continue trying to scare and belittle me but it was not going to cause me to do the same. It is my belief that is would be difficult to prove mental abuse as a criminal offense. Civil, for sure.
I can see how the ruling on this could go either way. If it wer
I can see how the ruling on this could go either way. If it were before a jury some would say "too bad" for the debtor". But obviously by the links I have supplied there are some policemen/authorities who might very well arrest/charge you. So if you want to take a chance that you'll get lucky go ahead and harass people all you want just be willing to pay the price. None of us are free to call anyone continually for any reason in a manner whereby the person may not be able to stop the calls or know for sure who is calling. As in this OP's case, he is stressed, having panic attacks and so forth. Chances are it might come to nothing. But suppose he has an underlying health problem and in today's litigious society you get sued because he dies and leaves his family without its breadwinner. YOU and I both know there are attorneys who will sue for anything and everything. So if you get off the wrongful death charge you still have to get past the civil lawsuit that stands to take the rest of your spare change and more for life. There is NO POINT in continuing to call someone if you don't leave the reason your calling. So if you continue to call without any possible resolution then you have put the person you are calling in an uncomfortable situation. And the law says, let me repeat:
[QUOTE]Lawyers.com
Obscene or harassing phone calls are an unwelcome intrusion on your privacy and can be a frightening experience. [COLOR=Red]The Federal Communications Act and many state laws prohibit telephone harassment.[/COLOR]
When Does a Phone Call Rise to the Level of Harassment?
Telephone harassment occurs when someone intends to annoy, harass or threaten you by:
- Making a telephone continually ring
- Making lewd, indecent, or obscene comments, suggestions or requests over the telephone
- Making a telephonecall where the caller does not identify himself
- Making repeated telephonecalls where the conversation consists only of harassment
- Making a telephone call and using heavy breathing or silence with an intent to intimidate
Just one unwelcome call can be harassing, though a single misdial or "wrong number" call may not rise to the level of harassment. It's a good idea to tell the recipient of such a call that you accidentally misdialed their number. People who commit telephone harassment are subject to fines, prison or both. In many states, telephone harassment is a criminal misdemeanor and can be more serious when a defendant in a criminal case is harassing the victim.
What Other Factors Should I Consider?
- The timing the calls, i.e. calls made in the middle of the night are more likely to be harassing
- The frequency of the calls
- Whether the calls include threats to injure or kidnap
- Whether the calls include lewd or obscene language
[/QUOTE]
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm The
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm
The FTC says, regarding debt collections, even those outside the FDCPA:
[QUOTE]What practices are off limits for debt collectors?
Harassment. Debt collectors may not harass, oppress, or abuse you or any third parties they contact. For example, they may not:
- use threats of violence or harm;
- publish a list of names of people who refuse to pay their debts (but they can give this information to the credit reporting companies);
- use obscene or profane language; or
- repeatedly use the phone to annoy someone.
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So I guess here the question would be a judgment of what is annoying.
Let me say that I myself have gotten phone calls from collectors who call first of all with their caller i.d. blocked which is annoying and wrong in itself. I know it is a debt collector because, for example, I answered once to see who it was and put a stop to whoever was calling over and over every day. When I answered it was an automated system telling me to hold and someone would be right with me. THAT IS ANNOYING. To be called on MY PHONE that I PAID FOR on PHONE SERVICE I PAID FOR only to be put on hold basically is annoying and I refuse to do it. If I owe someone and they want to call me person to person we might get somewhere. But I REFUSE to hold for some invisible person who wants to hassle me and tell me to pay money I don't have for some debt I may or may not have.
So, as in the thread so long ago that started my intense personal interest in this phone harassment thing, it is clear that I DON'T HAVE TO TALK TO ANYONE. I may or may not owe a debt but there is no law that says I have to talk to anyone. If, as in my stupid harasser's case, they call day after day several times a day from a private number and leave no message then it should be clear to them that what they are doing is pointless and stop because this goes on week after week and nothing is happening except I am getting more and more annoyed.
So because what they are doing is annoying me then they are harassing me. If you want to argue about civil harassment versus criminal harassment I don't think there is any point in that because there is no way to "civilly aka politely" harass someone.
This whole thing comes down, in my mind, to the confusion with the Fair Debt Collections laws. They say that a collector may be fined in certain circumstances. Apparently NOT ALL can be fined.
Irregardless of whether the creditor can be fined, there is still the matter of whether or not they are harassing you period.
And as it clearly is outlined by the FTC debtors MAY NOT HARASS you with annoying phone calls.
The fact they may not be fined UNDER THE FDCPA does not give them a clean slate to do as they please. You don't get a "Get out of Jail Free Card" because you are collector and exempt from rules against harassing phone calls.
I think collectors have the attitude of "well I will let these calls go on for years if I have to I am going to keep calling until I wear them down (aka annoy them) into talking to me."
Their repeated calls which serve no purpose are annoying and therefor harassing and as I quoted above and provided a link Debt Collectors cannot place annoying/harassing phone calls. :cool:
Dantheman: Obviously you know how ANNOYING these calls can be.
Dantheman: Obviously you know how ANNOYING these calls can be. The ones especially annoying to me are the ones where they choose not to leave a message but to call day after day, repeated times in a day, which gets us no where. The phone is not their only means of contacting me. So I consider calling me week after week, month after month, with their caller id blocked (so I have no way of telling them don't call me nor do I have a way of sending a cease and desist letter) harassment. I have no way to make it stop and they continue to engage in pointless behavior and I believe they don't care and figure, like I said, "too bad" pay up. Which takes me back to my earlier point of there has been no debt proven that I owe them and as such they are annoying and harassing me.
Some people say it's not fair that these poor collectors have a difficult job and I'm making it hard on them to do their job. Well, to that I say I am under no obligation that I am aware of to make their job easier. All jobs have challenges and high points and low points and if they find it too stressful because of me then they should either quit or learn to deal with it because it's not my concern if they are happy or not. The FTC did not amend their rule with "Gretchen VonDerhoff is hereby ordered to take into account the tender feelings of debt collectors WHO ARE GETTING PAID to call her so she must go out of her way because she ALLEGEDLY owes them something." If I have an obligation to make an effort to do something then I should get paid for it just as the collector gets paid for his efforts.
I have not investigated the "private caller" or the "000-000-0000" phone number showing on the caller i.d. but I find this annoying and RUDE because just as I would refuse to open my front door to someone who comes with a hood over his face so I cannot see to whom I would be opening the door, the same applies to coming to my telephone threshold into my home. Either come unmasked or don't come at all.
So hopefully that explains why, IN ADDITION TO THE STATUTES AND LAWS i have quoted, I am adamantly opposed to being forced to bend to the will of these ALLEGED creditors to whom is allegedly owe money.
You're more patient than I am apparently but anyway that is how and why I feel as I do.
I also think its dangerous for anyone to decide FOR THE PERSON THEY ARE CALLING just how stressful their calls may be. Someone laid back and noncommittal might not be distressed at all. Someone under increasing pressure who is sick in some way, his family is angry, he loses his job blah blah, a debtor's call may be the thing that pushes him over the edge. So for a debtor to say "its okay what I'm doing" I have to say it's okay for who? A perfectly healthy happy person? A troubled person? A deranged person?
So the (lol) phone lines are open to discuss why my logic and these laws and statutes don't hold up but hopefully no one will just say that a creditor harassing someone is ok reasoning I (allegedly) owe them because like I said, OJ Simpson thought he had the right to go visit people who had his stuff and now he is in prison so the creditor "get out of jail free" card he got didn't work I guess.
hi all - let me clarify something, i am mrs generallee, and i am
hi all - let me clarify something, i am mrs generallee, and i am the OP who started this discussion. mr generallee post here sometimes himself. it is myself who is stressed, depressed and having anxiety attacks (plus a number of physical health problems). i am disabled and have been fighting ssa for a very long time for ssdi. since i am home 90% of the time & have to listen to bofa ring the phones off the walls, and most times caller id only gives a city,state and phone number. sometimes it shows private call and no number, sometimes only says toll free call and the number. if someone can not show their name or name of company on my phone, i will not answer it. my husband has told me not to answer it, as it only stresses me out more and causes me to have more pain, stress and anxiety. he worries about me enough as it is with my health like it is, without someone causing more stress etc. he is stressed out too, but not as much as i am. i have told bofa more times than i can count about my health, they do not care if it causes more stress etc. like i told the man i most recently spoke to, them constantly ringing my phones with "unknown caller" "private caller", a city-state & number, or "toll free call" & a number- we do not answer the phone. so if they want us to answer, it will have to show me who is calling. and at same time, cause we do not answer house phone, is not an excuse to call my husbands work. bofa has too many tricks. they also send mail in an envelope that looks like it would be a greeting card, with NO RETURN NAME OR ADDRESS" and our names handwritten... how deceiving can that be?? also, if they sent us any mail they are sent first class, no proof of delivery. so how do they know for sure we got it? mail does get lost & people do steal mail from mailboxes. they mail stuff from all over the usa.. we have gotten several things from them mailed from north carolina, for example letter is dated nov 17, postmarked on nov 18, and we get it on nov 26- mind you north carolina is 2 states away from us & it took a first class mail 8 days to get here?? i can mail a letter to north carolina and it gets there in 2 days ! i have told bofa about that crap too ! i will be calling mr x back in about a week or so, just to see if he tells me the same thing he told me the last time we spoke.
from what i have read here, bofa usually charges off accounts between 6-8 months of no payments. well, the one he said was due to charge off at end of nov has not been paid on for 8 months.
this card is a bank of america american express, states bank of america across the top and in bottom right corner has a blue box that says american express...
one more thing about the "scheduled for charge off on nov 30"... if this were not true, then why would the man tell me the other 2 accounts can miss more payments before they will be scheduled for charge off?
Eight months is about when mine charged off with boa. They coun
Eight months is about when mine charged off with boa. They count differently then most of us. When I calculated 7 months late, it was 5 by their count. So, you are right at the point of negotiation. I settled mine just before chargeoff for 30%. Good Luck with them.
got a call at home today from bofa, caller id said "norfolk va"
got a call at home today from bofa, caller id said "norfolk va" and the number.. i knew it was them being the 1st of the month, just like mr x told me would happen. this was a different woman than i spoke to before i ever spoke to mr x... about my mr generallee's card (one that did not have a payment made yesterday), and the one mr x said we could miss about 3 more payments before chargeoff.. this lady had the same story that the last lady i spoke to... i quickly told her i was working with mr x and would be talking to him again early next week. she had an attitude because this card did not get a payment yesterday. well, there were about 3-4 months this card did not get a payment, in sept a payment was made on the card, no more since. and she is saying it is due for charge off on dec 31... not what mr x said !! her attitude got worse and was pretty much one sided, not giving me a chance to say much of anything. and said mr x did not keep this particular account on his desk. i didnt go into details about what he and i were working on, but when she said he didnt keep this account on his desk, she said "and you believed him?" ohhhhhhhhhhhh boy did that set me off... i told her quickly, "so i should believe anything YOU tell me & not to believe anyone else??" she got more of an attitude, but at that point i really did not care ! she quickly let me off the phone.. lol.... she tried her best to make me comment to a payment of $94 which i refused to do. i told her several times, this is only dec 1, i can not commit to any extra payments on any bill at this time, we just made payment yesterday"... i will be calling mr x tomorrow and see what he has to say when i tell her what this lady said..... i will not type what i said as soon as i hung the phone up, but you can imagine...
after speaking to that hateful woman that called my home the fir
after speaking to that hateful woman that called my home the first of the month, boa has still been calling. maybe once or twice a day, but i did not answer.. i had planned to call mr x the day after i talked to her but i became ill with some sort of bug that was going around and had to go to the dr then was in bed for a few days. well, last friday dec 10, someone from boa called mr generallee's work again ! lady at work saw that he could come to phone so got him in office and he said "is this boa" and the man said yes. he quickly told the man "you have a note attached to our accounts that says do not call this number, i am not allowed to have calls of this nature at my work. you have been warned, do not call me at this number again" click.... well, yesterday we each got a hate mail from boa and i was not in the mind set to speak to them. today i called to talk to mr x and he was not available but had another man take the call with some notes on our accounts in hand. he too was very nice and immediately explained the status of each account and asked if mr x had given us any settlement offer last month. i told him yes, he had offered 35% on the one that is due to charge off first. he said that if we agreed to a settlement by the end of december, he could do settlement on all 3 accounts at 25% (2 charge off on jan 2 and the other early feb). he told me if we settled all 3 together what the total $ would be and how much payments would be. there is no way even as good as the offer is that we could come up with that amount in 3 months, without going into default on mortgage and car payment. i asked if we accepted the 25% on the 2 lowest cards what the payments would be & what would we need to do to keep the 3rd one from charge off until those 2 are paid settlements. he told me but said that he could not guarantee that the 25% offer on the 3rd card would be good once we could settle it, that it may go to higher %. i explained to him that even our tax refund would only help slightly, as i have to keep some money aside for my medical expenses since all our income is already going out without paying them. i am so hoping i get approved for ssdi (disability) after the dr appt that ssa made for me in early january, but no idea how long it will be before i know if approved or not and then how long before i will start getting a check. i know i have to do something on the 2 cards quickly to keep them from charge off and at 25%. i wish it would be january already that way i might be able to get him down to 20% if i were able to pay a lump sum instead of payments... i tried 20% today but it did not fly and the way he talked this is bottom. i have until dec 30 to accept the 25%... got to do some major number crunching before i accept, as it is gonna be tough. then i will call back and hopefully be able to talk to mr x and go over what he and i discussed last month about settling one account at a time and what he has to say about %..in order to settle any of these so quickly, i will have to stop paying other cc's that are on hardship plans, which means more % and fees being tacked on to those for months (if i dont get my ssdi), and then have them ringing my phone off the wall... doesnt getting yourself in such a mess of debt just suck?