My Long Official thread RE: Illegal lenders replies to me.
Date: Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:33
My email to Cashwebusa:
Dear Lender,
After doing research regarding Internet payday loan laws in the State of Missouri (MO) and some US Federal laws, I have found that your Internet payday loans are actually illegal. If you do not have a license with Missouri, then you're in violation of state laws and some Federal US laws as well. Your entity is an illegal business stealing money and your contracts here are void and unenforceable. Any agreements signed are null and void in MO & the US. Furthermore, according to my records and receipts from past to current monies given to you, I have overpaid and am due a refund. The state of MO only allows a maximum loan of $500. You can't give more than that. If you were a legal and licensed lender then you would know this and abide by it.
Missouri Payday Loan Laws:
Maximum Amount of Loan - $500
Term of Loan - 14 to 31 days
Maximum Rate of Finance and Fees - Not Specified.
(Borrowers don't need to pay an overall amount of accrued interest and fees higher than 75% of the original amount of the loan on any single approved loan for the entire loan tenure and every sanctioned renewal. In other respects, interest is determined in accordance to small loan regulation which allows the parties to determine rate through contract.)
Finance Charge on $100 loan for a 14 day period - $75
APR for $100 loan for a 14 day period - 1980%
Debt Limits
Max Number of outstanding loans permitted at a time - Not Specified.
Permissible number of Rollovers - 6 (upon each renewal the borrower is required to decrease the principal loan amount by 5% or more).
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I hereby revoke any and all ACH authorizations with your company from debiting any of my personal accounts, per Federal law, Regulation E Section 205.10 Pre-authorized transfers. I also revoke any and all wage assignments I may or may not have signed with your company. I no longer authorize you, your company, or your
affiliates to attach any part of my wages or contact my employer for your collection purposes. I have notified my employer about this matter
& have informed them of your illegal rules/contract & possible tactics, so any attempts to do so on your part will be rejected.
I have also informed everyone I can of your illegality here and I am posting information on the internet to inform others who may have been taken advantage of by your illegal payday loans. I demand that any contact be made through email only. I will need everything in writing to keep accurate records of all communication as per instruction from my Attorney General's Office. I prohibit you or your affiliates to contact me via telephone at my place of employment or my home telephone number.
I also prohibit you from calling my references listed on my illegal loan. If there is so much of a hint of harassment, I will find every tool at
my disposal to make your company suffer for it. I will get the FBI involved if it is necessary as they're already investigating illegal
off-shore loan companies and tribal loan companies in the U.S. who deal illegally with consumers and thumb their noses to State Laws & Federal Laws. This will draw more unwanted attention I am sure and you have been warned.
Furthermore, due to the fact that Internet payday loans must be licensed in the state of MO to be a legal and binding contract, your company should NOT issue loans to MO residents at all. The legal amount that could have been charged to my loan is the principal
amount and I am due a refund of any overpaid monies in the form of interest, fees, extension fees, ANYTHING over the principal. Furthermore, you are not allowed to loan legally (if you were licensed) over $500 in MO. On past loans I have had amounts over this and paid well over the principal amounts. I paid interest on much higher loans than would be legally required if you operated in the state legally and licensed. Your IPDL company is illegally operating here. IF I ever owed anything it would be morally and I would repay on my own terms and conditions. If you do not like this email, don't illegally deal out loans in the U.S.A. and you will not have these issues. I must also inform you that I will be filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission and the MO Attorney General and any other entities in my country if need be.
Below is a copy/pasted reference towards what I am owed by your illegal company. I have paid more interest, fees, finance charges and more than required principal payments than required by my state laws. If you were a legal and licensed company
then you would know this and abide by it. So I have added all of my overpaid amounts to your company and it is below for your convenience. Any roll-overs also require reduction of 5% of the principal each time, this was also not done.
Cashwebusa; From Feb. 2012 to Current.
1.) Feb. 13th, 2012 - $500 principal loan.
Paid $300 extra for a total of $800. 1 extension.
2.) March 22nd, 2012 - $700 principal loan. ($200 OVER; MO ONLY ALLOWS $500 LOANS.)
Paid $157.50 extra for a total of $857.50.
3.) June 28th, 2012 - $800 principal loan. ($300 OVER.)
Paid $360 extra for a total of $1,160.00.
4.) September 28th, 2012 - $800 principal loan. ($300 OVER.)
I have paid an extra total of $817.50 in interest/fees and in the form of over-payments in the principal amounts over $800, I paid higher interest and finance charges on those monies also which are separate. It totals out to $1,617.50. MO only allows as stated before a $500 maximum loan amount. I paid much more than required. $800 extra is how much. Make a check payable to my address on file. Make this right as you are doing wrong and operating an illegal business by stealing from people with your interest and charges via your unenforceable contract which holds no water in this state. You would do well to send me a refund check in the amount of $1,617.50 and I also am requesting a closed/PIF confirmation email once this is done.
Cashwebusa reply to me:
Dear customer,
I have reviewed your email regarding your concerns about your loans with CashWebUSA. You cited the laws governing payday loans in your state of residence; however, if you refer to the contract you signed with CashWebUSA, you will notice you willingly chose to subject yourself to the laws of Costa Rica. More specifically, the contract states:
Governing Law: You have acknowledged that the key elements of acceptance of this Application by us, approval by our underwriters, disbursement of loan proceeds and repayment of principal and fees all occurred or will occur in Costa Rica, and you and we agree that any controversies that may arise hereunder shall be covered exclusively by the laws of Costa Rica.
Despite this fact and in order to maintain customer satisfaction - our most important goal here at CashWebUSA.com - I had our Account Review team review your account with us as well as your email. The following is their response:
We have reviewed the request from the following customer regarding reclassifying her account:
"Although we will be unable to process any refund in connection with her loans, we WILL reclassify her account and mark it as Paid in Full as a goodwill customer gesture. This will show on industry-related credit reports that she has an exemplary payment record with us, should she need a loan in the future from another company.
Our primary reason for doing so - and please convey this to her - is that we feel that taking a cooperative stance will show her that we have valued her as a customer of CashWebUSA.
Please let us know once she has received this information and has responded and accepted our offer to reclassify her account."
As explained in the response from my Account Review Team above, your account is now paid in full, and no further action is required from either party. Please respond that you have received this payment in full notification. Thank you for your cooperation with us, have a great day, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely,
Fabian Alvarado
CashWebUSA.com
Congrats ! It's always nice to hear good news like this.
Congrats ! It's always nice to hear good news like this.
Great job, keep up the good work on these, keep us posted as I k
Great job, keep up the good work on these, keep us posted as I know you will.
No replies as of yet from anyone else to my emails except that 2
No replies as of yet from anyone else to my emails except that 2 of them sent emails saying they received payments and thank you. Well, I'm not sure how they received payment because that account is gone, closed out. We made sure of that with the bank before switching over to a completely new account.
I will post more updates as they come when and if they come too.
I got an email reply from Spotloan last night. To make a long em
I got an email reply from Spotloan last night. To make a long email short, she stated some bologna crap that I had already checked out and know that is crap and then she said the account was paid in full. I emailed her back a few words and told her that I'll be letting everyone I can know about their company and their illegality in the state of MO. I told her that we are owed money but since it's PIF now, I'll let it be. It wasn't but a $103 overpayment and I can live with that I suppose.
Yooowhoooo for you!!!! ... Great Job, how many does that leave t
Yooowhoooo for you!!!! ... Great Job, how many does that leave to conquer?
Thank you for posting this! I just modified your letter for the
Thank you for posting this! I just modified your letter for the state of TN and sent it to American Web Loan and OnlineAdvance.com. Hopefully, it will get the same response!
Well, it leaves us with 4 left apparently, 1 legal and 3 illegal
Well, it leaves us with 4 left apparently, 1 legal and 3 illegal. We closed out the bank account that Spotloan said they received a PIF on so if they decide to say later on that they didn't receive payment, I got an email stating they did, nevermind that we are owed from them anyway.
Next up is Paydaymax, Zip19 & Advancemetoday. Advancemetoday & Paydaymax show our account current with them after they received payment last Friday on our closed account. I emailed Zip19 this morning regarding their illegality & how much they owe us. Haven't heard from them yet as they're due to take payment on Friday this week even though the account is closed.
The legal lenders Cashnetusa and Cashcentral we've spoken to but Cashnetusa is the most unhelpful. Cashcentral apparently wrote off the loan because when my wife spoke to them and explained to them what was going on, I checked their website today and it shows no loans due, $0 balance & would let us apply for another loan. It's odd because if we owed them anymore then that wouldn't be possible. We have always paid back previous loans with both Cashcentral and Cashnetusa, without fail, for the last 3 years I'd like to add.
So that leaves the 1 legal lender which we will pay back eventually and then the 3 illegal ones.
Spotloan update.
So here's an update guys. The illegal lender/collector Spotloan emailed us today saying the payment was returned because bank account was closed! Well no duh! This place has no leg to stand on. They owe us $103.12. Below is the email Leeannaa sent us today. What is real funny is how she says "when I loaned..." the money back in June! I replied to her with what is below under this. Read it all, it's a hoot. I can't believe this place thinks they have a right to subvert the laws and regulations in this country. Argghhh.
[COLOR=#454545]We recently received notification from your bank that your payment of $661.16 on October 05, 2012 was returned because your account is closed.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#454545]When I loaned you $800 on June 04, 2012, you promised me that you would be able to repay the loan and that you would call me if you had any trouble making a payment. I understand that sometimes it's tough to make ends meet and I want to help you out. I need you to get in touch with me so we can get you back on track.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#454545]It is really important that you make your next payment of $112.89 on October 19, 2012. You can mail payments to:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#454545]Spotloan
PO Box 720
Belcourt, ND 58316
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[COLOR=#454545]Most of my customers find it more convenient to have us auto-debit payments, please call me at (888) 681-6811 to setup auto-debit.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#454545]I look forward to talking to you.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#454545][FONT=Arial]Leeanna A
Relationship Manager
[email]leeannaa@spotloan.com[/email]
(888) 681-6811 ext 706
Spotloan
www.spotloan.com[/FONT][/COLOR]
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My reply to her:
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[COLOR=#000000] I have emailed before regarding this matter. You did not loan me anything, as the company you work for is an illegal unlicensed operator outside of the laws of MO & Zestcash a former lender is who lent the monies, NOT Spotloan, back in June. They're no longer in existence & do not loan and collect monies on loans, Spotloan does. I am owed money on the loan and have paid back well over the principal of that old loan of $800 and I outlined everything in my email to Spotloan last week. In case you did not read the email before, I will repost it for your convenience with some important information. I also for my own amusement reviewed my original contract when I signed up with Zestcash in June 2012. I read the whole thing. In it the loan explicitly states that it is with Zestcash who was based out of California. When the switch was made overnight in July 2012 to Spotloan, the only notification given was via email stating that Spotloan was now collecting on the loan, no letters, no phone calls, nothing. No new contract signed, nothing. It doesn't matter anyhow, Spotloan isn't licensed to collect or loan money in MO. I paid over what was lent and I am owed $103.12 as I paid $903.12.[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000]Furthermore, I have an email stating the loan PIF and I consider this matter closed. If you have a hard time understanding this, I am sorry. Indian laws do not over-ride state and federal laws in this country and when a company decides to subvert the laws so they can save some money & make more, and rip people off, then that is your problem. You decided to be part of an illegal operation and you'll suffer for it & consumers out here are becoming more aware of companies like yours who take advantage of them. No more. Thank you.[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000]Dear Lender,
After doing research regarding Internet payday/consumer loan laws in the State of Missouri (MO), I have found that your loan is actually illegal. I have also found that my original agreement was with formerly Zestcash per my agreement signed on June 5th, 2012, a once legal and licensed lender of consumer loans in MO. Upon learning of this, and the fact that Spotloan is owned by a Indian tribe/Blue Financial, per your website's disclosure and there being no license with my state, I find your actions illegal and indisputable. The loan contract originally made became null and void upon the time that Spotloan took over. No new contract was signed and no disclosures were given and signed either. I have however more than paid back the principal loan which was $800 and I was obligated to repay that which I have and then some. Spotloan, a non-licensed tribal organization is lending monies outside of the law(s) meant to protect consumers such as myself. ALL payment receipts I have from Spotloan have been added up and totaled below for your convenience.
I also hereby revoke any and all wage assignments I may or may not have signed with your company, I no longer authorize you, your company, or your affiliates to attach any part of my wages or contact my employer for your collection purposes. I have notified my employer about this matter so any attempts to do so on your part will be rejected. I demand that any contact be made through US Postal mail or email only. I will need everything in writing to keep accurate records of all communication as per instruction from my Attorney General's Office. I prohibit you or your affiliates to contact me via telephone at my place of employment or my home telephone number. I also prohibit you from calling my references listed on my loan.
Due to the fact that Internet payday loans & any consumer loans online or store-front must be licensed in the state of MO to be a legal and binding contract, your company should NOT issue loans to MO residents at all.
The legal amount that could have been charged to my loan is the principal amount which would've been due to Zestcash, not Spotloan, per my contract originally signed with them which is defunct.
I must also inform you that I will be filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission, and the MO Attorney General's Office.
No telephone contact is permitted.
Total monies paid to Zestcash/Spotloan since June 2012:
Principal loan of $800 and I have paid $903.12 as of 10/04/12.
I am due a refund in the amount of $103.12 which can be mailed via USPS at the address listed on file.[/COLOR]
Spotloan update again!
Spotloan is full of morons I tell you. Here's their next reply I got tonight and I emailed them back which will be below their email here. I think they're serious about what they say and I think they're morons. Should I just ignore anything else they say or what do you think?
Their new email to me:
Dear customer,
I understand that you are frustrated, but I can assure you that Spotloan is operating in accordance with all applicable laws.
As you note, Indian tribes are sovereign nations. As a result, they and their businesses are not bound by state lending laws. Spotloan is not required to obtain a license from Missouri or from any other state. State officials who tell you otherwise are mistaken. Spotloan is, however, governed by federal lending laws, and it complies with those laws, as well as with the laws of the tribe that owns Spotloan, the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians.
I would also like to clarify that ZestCash has not become Spotloan. You obtained a loan from ZestCash and, as many lenders do, ZestCash sold that loan. You were notified of that sale by a voicemail left by your Relationship Manager on 6/27/12; by email notification; and by postcard. Regardless of how you learned of the sale, the sale of your loan was legal and did not alter the terms and conditions to which you agreed.
Your most recent payment of $661 has bounced. Accordingly, you currently have an account balance of $719.53 and your next payment of $112.89 is due on 10/19/12. We expect you to live up to your promise to repay your loan as agreed. Please contact your account manager, Leeanna at 888-681-6811 ext 706 or by e-mail at [EMAIL="leeannaa@spotloan.com"]leeannaa@spotloan.com[/EMAIL] to resolve this account balance and pay back the loan because when you miss a payment, interest continues to accrue and the loan balance gets bigger (which is not in your best interests - or ours!).
I hope I have been able to clarify matters for you.
Thank you,
Heleana
Service Manager
Spotloan
MY EMAIL REPLY:
Hi,
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[COLOR=#000000] Nobody is frustrated except you maybe & maybe you didn't understand what was stated already more than once before and again, I will reiterate it for you. 1st, you are required to obtain a lending license to loan and collect on loans in the state of MO. There are no federal lending laws, states govern lending laws. There are consumer laws governed by states and the federal government but there is no federal lending laws on this matter. 2nd, tribal entities are illegal when operating in a state by loaning out monies and not being licensed and regulated by a state. You are wrong and the massive ignorance on your part is apparent. I am not bound to anything with Spotloan and I do not owe anything but you owe me $103.12 as an overpayment. Furthermore, as stated before, my original loan was with Zestcash, not Spotloan. That is what my original contract states and that was with a formerly licensed lender. There were no notifications except an email as I've already said before & it doesn't even matter because I've repaid the principal amount of $800 back and another $103.12 on top of it. So you got the money & then some. I'm not obligated under state laws to repay anything to an illegal tribal lender & since you guys are so intent on stating the same garbage over & over, I can see nobody understands just how important it is to have a lending license. If you did then this wouldn't happen and nobody would have a problem.[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000]Zestcash sold the loan to Spotloan to subvert laws and regulations because it is indeed expensive to have a payday loan/loan company in a state like California/MO or any other state for that matter because of heavy regulations & laws. They took clean paper & a legit loan & made it all dirty & void by selling this to Spotloan! Zestcash only managed to get licenses with just a few states in just a few short years but since they sold everything to Spotloan, Spotloan can lend in all states because Spotloan is an illegal tribal lender who doesn't care about doing what's right, they only care about ripping people off with extremely high interest rates & breaking state laws everywhere. People aren't educated enough at 1st if they get into these loans until they learn the truths later on. I'm not the first person to tell you guys off and to be owed money and I won't be the last. I have informed everyone I can regarding this illegal tribal outfit. Tribal lenders know they're giving out loans illegally which is why several states have sued them and why the tribes do not win in court. Your stating that you're exempt from state laws is stupid and plain garbage & your company would know this. Unless you're going to drag me to your tribal land which you can't anyway, I suggest you either send me the money I'm owed or you stop sending me garbage and go try to pick on someone who doesn't know what's going on. I know what I say is going in one ear & out the other, but maybe not. Either way get with the program or don't bother me anymore with this nonsense. [/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000]Thank you.[/COLOR]