Is sending DV letter via FAX as good as CMRRR?

I haven't thought of this before, but perhaps the printout that they got the fax is as good?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You may opt to send by fax as well...but you want the proof in your hand that someone signed for it. Just because your fax said the transmision went through OK doesn't mean they don't have a paperjam or something. You need the signature, bottom line!

I agree with beatle on this one. I know it's expensive to send but it's worth it. Trust me on this one :-) I try to fax it before I send it via certified mail just to cover my basis .

The simple answer is "yes", fax is ok, probably better than CMRR. But read the rest of this carefully, before you shoot yourself in the foot.

The question is not about whether or not the demand for validation is effective; the question is whether your method creates sufficient evidence for trial if (when) you sue the debt collector for violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Only once have I ever seen a debt collector actually comply with a demand for validation. And I've been litigating this stuff for about 12 years. Either they don't respond at all, or they send a response that's not really a response, apparently thinking that if they mail some paper with the purported debtor's name on it, that's good enough. So I don't use demands for verification to actually acquire information. I ask my clients to use them to make the debt collectors (1) go away entirely or (2) set themselves up for liability, such that whatever my client ends up paying, the debt collector's going to be responsible for. So I have DV letters sent out for the purpose of creating evidence I can use at trial.

What's evidence? Oral testimony in the context of a judicial proceeding stated by a witness with personal knowledge of the facts under penalty of perjury. Everything else is just exhibits, and exhibits require a witness for authentication and identification.

Some exhibits can be introduced without authentication and identification, though, because of the reliability of the source. Official USPS certificates, for example. Like, if you send mail CMRR, the green form you get back, if it is UNALTERED and signed BY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT is self-authenticating.

I guess you'd figured out by now that I see there being a few problems with the green card. If you get one back at all. Lots of times, the debt collection factories have some kind of thing with the post office that lets them manage their own mail, and they don't bother to send back the green card on themselves. In my experience, they're often improperly filled out, improperly signed, and often the name and address information of the recipient has been altered. So much for that "evidence". I don't see that as very reliable, and it could work against you. If your only piece of evidence to show that you even mailed something comes back with an illegible altered recipient name and address and a signature that doesn't say "Legal Debt Collector Name" (whatever that may be), but just says, "Joe Blow", well, how are you going to persuade the court that the intended recipient got the thing you mailed?

I think the best way to send a demand for validation is to (1) and most importantly, have a competent witness with you at all times who can testify about every detail of what you're doing, someone who will be able to show up in court and speak under oath on the basis of personal knowledge; (2) have your witness make a copy of the DV and initial both copies in an inconspicuous place; (3) have your witness compare the address on the letter with the address on the envelope, a delivery confirmation receipt and a certificate of mailing; (4) have your witness fold the letter, put it into the envelope, and seal the envelop; (5) go with your witness to the usps and send the DV first class priority mail with delivery confirmation and get a certificate of mailing; (6) log onto the usps website and go to the track-and-confirm page with your witness, check the number off your delivery confirmation receipt and tell the usps computer to send both you and your witness email about everything that's already happened and everything that will happen (use the debt collector name for your name on that page, so the email will come back saying, "Debt Collector requested that the USPS send you this email.." The certificate of mailing is a self-authenticating document and is proof that you mailed something. Your witness can testify about exactly what was mailed (Perry Mason fans may recall LT. Tragg: "Yes, that's the gun, IT HAS MY MARK ON IT.") by the initials on the copy of the DV letter.

Ok, you can use a fax. Make sure your machine has the capability of generating some kind of confirmation of receipt. Make sure you can document that the number it went to is the number of the debt collector. Make sure your witness can testify about what was sent, when, and to whom.

The simple answer is, it doesn't matter how you get the DV to the debt collector; it doesn't have to be in any particular form. What is necessary is that you set them up really well for the fdcpa violation they're going to commit on the assumption that they can lie about it later.

When I send validation I fax and send it CMRRR. That way I have confirmation from the fax that they received it and I have the signed green card with a signature. That way they can't say they didn't receive dv letter.

I agree with most everything the attorney said, but for me, having something more offical than a fax receipt makes me feel better. An online confirmation from USPS is great.

Certainly good to use the USPS in addition to fax; but I still assert that CMRR is worse than useless.

There are a couple of aspects to my certificate of mailing / delivery confirmation priority mail approach that need more clarification, though:

(1) CMRR can be rejected or ignored until the three delivery attempts are gone and it'll be returned - it's still notice, as a purely legal matter, but they can self-righteously ignore it and continue collection efforts on the theory that they don't have actual notice. First class priority mail gets delivered. Period.

(2) Put the phrase, "Address Service Requested" BELOW the RETURN address (leave a little white space gap so the USPS will be more likely to notice it). That way, if it gets forwarded, you pay another 75 cents to find out what the new address is. The USPS will send you a card with the new info automagically.

(3) Delivery confirmation does NOT produce self-authenticating documentation. But you and your witness can both testify that you tracked the delivery and the USPS informed you via PUBLIC RECORDS that the DV was delivered on a particular date at a particular time. It's not hearsay, because "public records" constitute an exception to the hearsay rule. But you can't normally just print off a copy of the web page telling you the thing was delivered and present that as evidence. (I'd try it, anyway, 'cause if the judge accepts it and the other side doesn't object, who cares about the hearsay rule?)

(4) For those not familiar with USPS stuff, the delivery is a light-green form that gets stuck to the envelope like the dark-green certified mail thing, only it's got a bar code that the USPS guys read with a little scanner. It does not give you a signed receipt, but the USPS website will tell you when and through what post office the letter was delivered. A certificate of mailing is a separate thing that you fill out, pay to have stamped with the postmark of the date and time you mailed the letter, and constitutes the official certification of the USPS that you put something in the mail at a particular date and time; nothing gets stuck onto the letter. Get a cash receipt for the postage, and stuff, and keep that along with your certificate of mailing and delivery confirmation ticket.