Important notice

Erzeke,

I do not think that the business model that we run is shady at all. In my opinion, in order for a business to be shady it must also be deceitful. We have never done anything to deceive our customers. We disclose all of the information up front. We have never hidden anything. The loan paperwork that our customers receive when they apply tells them what the apr is as well as the finance charge and how the whole process works. I have also said on many threads that I do not feel that $30 per 100 is an exorbitant amount to ask for when loaning money to complete strangers. As far as the state to state issue, until they can find a way to govern cyberspace than loan companies will continue to operate as they are now.

Josh Mitchem

Hey Josh, I haven't heard back from you yet today.

Sue

Thanks for the reply, Josh.
I was just perusing one of my previous payday loan sites and they have a large number of states that they don't lend to anymore due to their state lending laws...This is in addition to the ones like Georgia, where it is illegal.
I'm just curious as to why payday lenders feel justified in lending to states that have usury laws on loans, and why is the internet any different?
One of the lenders I spoke with told me that when I went on the internet to get loan with them, it was the same as going to his states' place of business. So if the loan is originated in another state, wouldn't the customer's state laws prevail here since the lender is transmitting the monies to another state? It sounds to me this is a Catch 22 situation. Don't you agree?

Hey Josh - ignore that I got your email.

Sue

Sue,

Alex from FTR will be contacting you soon to go over some of the options available to you.

Erzeke,

The internet is different in a couple of ways. 1) The internet has no domain. This is how internet lenders get around alot of state laws. How can any state govern a transaction that takes place on the internet (cyberspace) that would be like trying to govern a transaction that took place in a spaceship. U.S. property, but not state property. This is why internet lenders only follow federal usury laws which needless to say there are very few. As far as the lender that told you it was like coming to his state, I am not sure where he got his information. I received the information I gave you, from several diff. attorneys and the U.S.A.G.'s office. Now in my understanding of contracts the state in which the contract was signed is the state laws that are followed. Where the money is sent is irrelevant. Besides how do you determine what state the money was sent from? Remember the internet has no domicile, no home, thus no orgination point. So I ask your opinion, what state do you think the loan orginated in? Yours or Theirs?

1. I think where the money is sent is highly relevant. Doesn't the FDIC partner with the banks these pdls use and can revoke this at any time? Not real sure on the specifics here, but am digging deeper into that angle.
2. The state the money originated from? see above.
3. As far as the origination of the loans, this could continue to be a moot point. I agree, it's all a matter of opinion. No one here is right, but sure makes a damn good argument! lol

Josh,

So you are saying that if you lend me money in Iowa and you are in Kansas that neither one of these laws apply:

Quote:

Here's something else off http://www.fdic.gov/

Quote:

Josh,

Thank you for sharing about payday loan collectors. I'm sure that will help a few people on the boards. I agree that they can be ruthless but they do use illegal tactics.

What I am reading from Josh's latest post is the contract is signed in the state of the consumer therefore the consumer's laws have to be followed. I have been told this by a few different attorney general's offices whether it is an internet lender or not. Now, in my state YOU HAVE to BE LICENSED. It doesn't matter if you are an internet lender or not and I believe more states are cracking down on this. Josh, you have brought up some valid points and have enjoyed your latest posts.

Sue, I think you need to back off a little and think before you hit send. Then you won't have to be apologizing all the time. It seems Josh is trying to help you. A little patience goes a long way.

You don't know my situation and it just happened that Josh and I were typing at the same time if you would look at the time of the posts. If you are for real then sign up and become a member of this community and don't hide behind "guest".

Let me add that even though he works for a payday loan company I think Josh is one of the good guys. He has been very helpful to me and has tried to help others obviously.

It does not matter if I join up or not, I could still hide. It does not make me any less real that you "Sue". How do we know your name is really Sue? My point to you was Josh was trying to help thats all. You did not let me down, your reply was exactly what I expected. Have a nice day.

As was yours...

Guest,

I appreciate you sticking up for me, but it was just an honest mistake, no big deal.

Sue,

I have not had a chance to talk with Alex since we last spoke, but I certainly hope he took good care of you.

Mishele,

I may have crossed some wires in my post. Sometimes I get to ramblin a bit, and things dont always come out as clear as they sounded in my head. The issue of where a contract was signed is a tough one. The point I was trying to make is that you can not determine where the contract was signed, because it was done in cyberspace. It was not signed in your state or my state.

Exactly Josh,
Like I said, we can argue this to death.
But licensing becomes an issue.
If a pdl is not licensed in the state it was signed in, the contract is null and void.
The whole thing becomes a mess once defaulted on.
I checked with my states' Business and Professional Regulation and was referred to our Statutes governing deferred presentment providers as well as money transmitters.
What do you think about the FDIC issue?

Thanks Josh, for helping me out. Alex did take care of my situation to my satisfaction. Stick around here, Josh, we've enjoyed debating things with you, you have definitely added to this forum and I hope you stay.

Sue

Erzeke,

The debate is not about licensing, the debate is what state was the contract signed in? If you can answer this you will be able to do what 20 attorneys and 200 politicians have not been able to do.

Josh..
The contracts are physically signed in the state of the debtor.
For example, if you buy insurance either physically or over the internet, the company must abide by the laws the consumer lives in.
That's only logical...
The licensing debate is individualize by state. Under Florida law, payday lenders are considered money transmitters and deferred presentment providers. There are numerous statutes explaining this process, including violations.
This information was provided to me by the head of the Dept. of Bus. and Prof. Regulations.

Josh,

Thanks for the reply. I have been told by my division of financial institutions that an internet payday lender must be licensed per state statue in order to loan money to any consumer in my state. This has also been cofirmed by my attorney general's office as there are stricter payday loan laws now than before. I agree that it can be difficult to prove and I think it happens to depend on someone's circumstances as well. I have never had a loan with your company but it's good to see you taking a positive initiative on this board. You are a rarity in the pdl industry as far as I'm concerned. Believe me, I have overpaid some companies by hundreds or even thousands of dollars per state laws. There is a fine line that can be or cannot be crossed at times.

In, my state of Louisiana the maximum loan fee on a $300 payday loan is $45.