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signatures needed on original agreement

Date: Wed, 05/09/2007 - 17:42

Submitted by anonymous
on Wed, 05/09/2007 - 17:42

Posts: 202330 Credits: [Donate]

Total Replies: 13


I called a local bankruptcy/credit attorney, in town, today. He says he has been practicing for 32 years. I asked him questions about a debt collector suing and getting a judgement. This is what Mr. Attorney said:

A debt collector often buys and sells many debts. They often don't have the original agreement signed by the debtor.

In order to get a judgment, the debt collector must have the original agreement, and not just a copy.


Anytime I have sued someone, I always send a color copy of the original contract to our attorney, and then he makes me sign a sworn affidavit that I am in physical posession of the original document. I guess if I lied about having the original, then I could personally be held for perjury.

Whenever we get a default judgment, there is always one final court date called a default prove-up. The prove-up is basically my attorney showing the judge the contract/ledger/payment history so that s/he knows we're not making anything up. (It also gives the defendant one last chance to appear). After the prove-up, the judge enteres an ex parte judgment.


lrhall41

Submitted by DebtCruncher on Wed, 05/09/2007 - 18:47

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Contracts/Agreements are much like a check you would write. As long as someone has the original, they can "cash" it in. You can't take a copy of a check to a bank and expect them to cash it -- just like a company isn't *supposed* to sue someone if they don't have the original agreement.

debt collectors work in various ways, mainly:

1) A CA can simply act as an agent for the creditor, whereby the creditor still owns the debt, but the CA is trying to collect on behlaf of the creditor. In this case, it is ultimately up to the creditor to determine if they want to sue you.
IF they do decide to file suit, then there's two more scenarios:

    A) They can call the file back from the CA and use their own attorney. In other words, the CA's job is over, creditor takes the file back, and uses his own attorney to file; or,

    B) Some CA's have attorneys on their staff that can file cases on behalf of the creditor. In this case the creditor doesn't need to "call it back," they just simply give the go ahead to file suit.

In both cases, the creditor retains the original contract and would be able to produce it as evidence of the indebtedness.

2) We have seen junk debt buyers popping up, and what they do is purchase the debt from the creditor. You might owe Chase Visa $1200, and XYZ Acquisitions will pay Chase about $25 for the account. Now you owe XYZ $1200 even though they bought it for $25. Along with that sale, Chase should be handing over to XYZ the original agreement, along with an assignment notice. IF XYZ wants to sue you, they should be able to produce the original, since Chase supposedly gave it to them.

A little long-winded. But anyone that wants to sue you, should be able to prove ownership of the debt, as well as produce the original agreement. If they don't have the original, they really are in no position to sue.

A copy of the original is not sufficient by itself, except as I stated in the post above where the plaintiff signs an affidavit that they indeed do have the original. (This keeps the original from being lost during transport. But if the defendant argued the validity of the affidavit, I would be able to bring the original into court). If you know they don't really have the original, and you can call them on it, they would lose their case if they couldn't produce it.

For Tweety, same goes for PDL contracts. At least for storefront ones where you sign a real piece of paper. I'm not sure how the court would consider an "electronic signature" but I would never want to venture into that realm. I have had customers that want to sign for a loan by fax, because they live 50-60 miles away. I have always said "sorry, you need to come to the office and sign in person" just because I'm not sure how the court would see anything other than a "real" signature.


lrhall41

Submitted by DebtCruncher on Thu, 05/10/2007 - 08:55

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In the transfer of an old debt to the debt collector, is the original signed agreement often lost or misplaced?

- Picture a credit card company has millions of credit accounts. They need somewhere to store all those signed agreements, so I would assume they ship them offsite and hold them in a big storage facility. When they have a handful of bad accounts they want to sell off, they would have to go digging through millions of files to find all the original papers. I'm sure some of them got mis-filed along the way, some can't be found after such a long time in storage. So yes... I'm sure some accounts they sell off, they don't have the original to go with it. I doubt a junk debt buyer will refuse to buy an account in this case; they probably just hope they can harass the debtor into paying, without ever needing the original.

Do some debt collectors file a law suit even when they do not have the original written contract, hoping no one will ask for it in court?

- Probably so. If the debtor doesn't make that a defense, a judge might just let the case go through.


lrhall41

Submitted by DebtCruncher on Thu, 05/10/2007 - 16:34

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