"Proof of Debt"

Hi Brian....yes, they need to provide debt validation (DV) but you need to send it in writing.

have you gotten the initial letter from them...or for that matter, anything in writing?

No I've gotten nothing from them. Just a lot of phone calls to my family members!!! These people are so rude though!!!

Yes, somecan be...and its unfortunate.

Would you like a DV letter to send to them?

Use this letter and the following form to make the agency verify that the debt is actually yours and owed by you. Keep a copy for your files and send the letter registered mail.

Quote:

Actually I just saw an example on a different forum...this site is awesome!!!

No prob...I posted one for you anyhow. Get it out to them asap!

Thank you very much you are awesome!!!!

anytime...good luck and come back to let us know how it goes.

And thanks for registering! :D

2-3 weeks ago I received a certified letter from a law firm (collection agency) saying a credit card company had sold my debt to them & they were notifying me of an intent to collect. I had 30 days to respond & was advised to send a response to the National Arbitration Forum. I immediately wrote both the CA & NAF that I was never notified a FIRST time (as the letter stated) that they were trying to collect & mailed both certified, return receipt. I have recently gotten the cards back that both letters were signed for. The NAF wrote me that I needed to respond with one of their forms. I complied, sent a copy to the CA, made copies of my certified mail receipts & enclosed those in both letters of response to the claim to the CA and NAF. Note that I have complied well within the 30 day limit. I feel that by sending all correspondence to the CA as well as the NAF by certified, return receipt letter, I am "hopefully" protecting myself from being taken to court or a judgement filed against me. Should I also write and ask for a settlement offer? The CA told me in their letter that they own the debt now. Ironically, within the past 30 days (prior to the certified letter they sent threatening legal action) they wrote & said they would settle with me. I also sent a copy of THAT letter to the NAF as well as the CA, just as a "reminder" that they have offered to settle yet less than 3 weeks later, I get the letter of intent to file a judgement against me. What do I do now? Thank God they don't have my phone # so they aren't harrassing me by phone. The only way they can correspond with me is by mail. From what I read on different forums, these people are ruthless and no matter how I respond to their letters, even if I go by "the rules", document everything, keep copies, mail everything certified & return receipt, they will still take out the judgement against me. I WANT to settle and will gladly try to work out a payment agreement but I can't pay the debt all at one time. Do I wait now to hear back from the CA & NAF, assuming they will or want to work with me? I want this settled ASAP & feel I've done all I can do until I hear back from them. Any advice? Is there ever any real "justice" or am I just doomed to end up in court? Should I get an attorney? Thanks for any & all advice.

Send them a DV immediately! BEFORE they can sue! That way, it makes filing a suit on a disputed debt a violation. Then in court you can point out that you sent a DV. If they sue before you can do that, make sure to ask for a DV in the discovery and if they can't provide all the needed validation, you motion to dismiss with prejudice.

You don????????t want to even offer or consider a settlement until they can prove to you that they are legally entitled to collect from you and that what they are collecting is legal.

The DV is "debt validation" right? Can I use a copy of the letter in this forum? I was HOPING that since I have responded to the CA & the NAF well within the 30 days notice, I have avoided them pursuing this right away. Don't they HAVE to comply w/the 30 days before taking further action? If the DV letter in this forum is acceptable, I will send it certified, receipt requested on Mon. I have until Feb. 21st to be within the 30 days. Thanks for your continued assistance in this matter. I'm a basket case from worrying about this!

[quote=Carold]2-3 weeks ago I received a certified letter from a law firm (collection agency) saying a credit card company had sold my debt to them & they were notifying me of an intent to collect. I had 30 days to respond & was advised to send a response to the National Arbitration Forum.[/quote]

Do not, do not for one moment believe that the NAF is a neutral forum. They are largely a creature of Wolpoff & Abramson, which is one of the scummier collectors on the planet.

Read this before you proceed.

[quote=Carold]Should I get an attorney?[/quote]

In your position, I would definitely seek the advice of counsel.

[quote=Carold]The DV is "debt validation" right? Can I use a copy of the letter in this forum?[/quote]

Correct. DV = Debt Validation.

Please use that letter, with our compliments.

There is some case law on CAs suing within the 30 day period. I will see if I can dig it up. basically they have to give you that 30 days to dispute.

Good question, I'm pretty sure though that they can file suit in response to a DV though. However it may be subject to a counter claim for fdcpa violations.

hi all....let's see what we can clear up on this one.

First, JCEMT is correct in that they can sue you once you send a DV, but the fact of the matter is that they cannot LEGALLY do so. You see, the law states that once you send them a DV, they must immediately cease all collection on the debt until they provide you with the validation. If you send them a DV letter and they get it today, they cannot legally file suit against you tomorrow....they must stop ALL collection activity, and that includes filing a lawsuit. If they already filed it before you sent the DV, then no, they dont have to stop the lawsuit because it was already in progress.

They can sue you--in the same manner that they can sue on a debt that is past SOL....it is up to you, if they do sue you without providing validation, to use this as your affirmative defense--that the suit is illegal per section 809 of the FDCPA. You would then send the court copies of the letter you sent as well as the green USPS card that proves date of delivery. Once the date is compared to the date they filed the court complaint, your defense should be enough to slap the suit back. This is where you must know the law because the collectors know when they are ignoring it.

Carol, something you said puzzled me. You said:

Quote:

Thanks again for ALL of the helpful information I have received from members of this forum. I could not have begun to deal with these collectors and the NAF without your assistance. I mailed another certified, return receipt letter to both the CA & NAF last Fri.(although it was not a form letter) & disputed the amount of the debt & asked for ALL of the pertinent info. (name on account, SS#, amount of debt, etc.). I make note in ALL of my correspondence that I have moved & all info. should be sent to my P.O. Box. I travel extensively & am not at a physical address to accept correspondence. I'm worried that the CA will not send the info. to the appropriate address. But I've saved all of my receipts where I've responded to these people so that's all I can go on for now. BTW, do they even send certified letters to P.O. Box's?? If they truly HAVE to (and will) abide by the 30 day law, I am well within the time frame with my responses. What is their next step after I asl for the validation & how long does the process normally take? Thanks again!

I'm thinkin' they have 30 [maybe 45] days from receipt of your DV letter to come up with the documentation. They do have to cease all collection activity until they produce it.

"Our office previously sent you a Notice of Intent to Arbitrate our client's claim. (BTW, I never got this 1st notice & told them as much in my last letter. I asked for proof that a 1st letter had been signed for.) We now enclose our Arbitration claim. We urge you to read this claim carefully. If you do not respond to the claim as stated in the claim, we will pursue an award against you & in favor of our client in the arbitration proceeding. Should the award be granted, we will ask a court of competent jurisdiction to enforce the award against you. You have the right to retain an attorney of you own choice to represent you in this matter. Our office does not represent you & cannot & will not give you advice. Nevertheless, if you wish to contact this office to try to voluntarily resolve this matter, please contact us at XXXXXX. This communication os from a debt collector. This is an attemt to collect a debt & all info. will be used for that purpose.
In the NAF Claim: Respondent: This is an arbitration claim against you for money or other relief. You have 30 days to serve the claimant with a written response. If you do not serve the claimant AND file with the NAF a written response, an award may be entered against you."
Then the letter goes into detail about the credit card debt & says the debt was sold to the CA on or about Aug. '07.
The letter was dated Jan. 14th, 2008 & as noted before, I have sent 3 certified, returned receipt letters to both the CA & NAF. The NAF responded that my 1st letter had been received but I had to submit a response in accord with Rule 13 of the code. I had to file proof of delivery, etc. So I've done all of that. In my last letter to them I asked them to provide all pertinent info. I did not use the word VALIDATE. So do I need to send another letter ASAP using VALIDATE?

Carol--

There is no time limit on them. They give you 30 days because the law says they have to, but they can take as long as they want. There is no federal law that gives them a certain amount of time. Now, I seem to recall that in Texas they require the validation to be done within 30 days, but I am not 100% positive on that. Best bet, tell us what state youre from and we can check the laws for that state to see if they help you at all. But they dont have a time limit as far as the fdcpa goes.

In fact, they dont even have to validate the debt at all. They must validate it once you make the request if they intend to try to collect on it ever again, but they can simply stop contacting you, sell the debt to some other bottom feeder junk debt buyer and that is legal. When I send a DV letter, I state that I am giving them 30 days to provide proper validation, but there is nothing within the law that requires that time frame. One good thing to remember is this--if they actually have the proper validation on the account, then they would send it to you and they wouldnt wait around about doing it, because it only hurts their business not to. The law is set up the way it is to make sure that debt collectors arent out there trying to collect a debt that they dont have any business collecting. But since most people arent aware of their rights, they do it anyways. The only reason for a CA to stall about validation is because they dont have what they know the law requires them to have. Keep that in mind. When I deal with a CA and they refuse to validate, it tells me that they either dont have the required proof, dont care about the required proof, or both.

I kept a copy of the certified letter I sent the CA & NAF this past Fri. I wrote that I am "DISPUTING" their claim (that this was a 2nd notice, etc.) and asked for all of the pertinent info. I also enclosed the letter they had sent on Jan. 11th offering to settle. Yet on Jan. 14th (when their last letter was written, it was the details on the Arbitration I wrote about previously on this forum.) They work fast don't they?? On the 11th they wanted to settle. On the 14th, they have filed for an Arbitration hearing against me! So do I wait now to hear more from them? I'll be traveling all of March (as I informed them) so will be unable to get their correspondence. I suppose they are sneaky enough to try & send me something knowing I won't be able to respond to it.

I live in Fl. if that helps with the legalities of this "Notice of Intent to Arbitrate" letter from the CA. The last page of the letter is a "summary of account info." which lists the date as Jan. 10th, the account #, name, address, principal balance, interest to date & interest rate.

[quote=Carold]I'll be traveling all of March (as I informed them) so will be unable to get their correspondence. I suppose they are sneaky enough to try & send me something knowing I won't be able to respond to it.[/quote]

I'd say that's a pretty safe bet.

Do you have a trustworthy friend or family member that could recieve you mail for you, and see that you're kept up to speed? That would be one solution. Otherwise, you may want to consider an attorney, just to make sure things get answered timely, if nothing else.

carol--

did the letters they sent you actually use the phrase "file a judgment"? just curious...

No, there is no mention of "file for judgement", just the info. I wrote in a previous post. I was just reading the last page of the letter however & it states "If any part of this arbitration agreement is found to be invalid or unenforceable under any law or statute consistent with the FAA, the remainder of this arbitration section shall be enforceable w/o regard to such invalidity or unenforceability." Huh? What does that mean? It continues..."The result of this arbitration agreement is that except as provided above, claims cannot be litigated in court, including some claims that could have been tried before a jury, as class actions or as private attorney general actions. Also, I need to note that the letter has my first & last name correct but the middle initial is wrong. I asked in the letter I sent them last week to send me all of the details: name on account, SS#, amount of debt, etc. As I looked thru the copies of letters I've sent the CA and NAF, I responded w/the form the NAF stated I must use which was a dispute form. Is my letter of disputing to the CA & NAF, asking for the info. above, sufficient or should I also send a DV? Their letter was written on Jan. 14th & I received it on the 23rd. It clearly states in the letter that I have 30 days to respond so if I need to send a DV, I need to get it out this week. Should I send it overnite or just certified, return receipt as I have my other letters? I want to make sure I stay one step ahead of these jokers!

Hmm...ok so they are trying to take you to NAF.....this is usually put in contracts to avoid having to go to a court right? Well....isn't there a way to refuse? Don't they have to provide a copy of the contract (signed)in order to force NAF on you? Otherwise can't you state you would rather this go to a court of law?

Its kinda part of the DV process (which you REALLY need to do asap) but the contract would be important in the fact that without this, they can't force you into arbitration.

Oh and yes, Texas is a 30 day limit to provide DV. :)

I'm sending a DV tomorrow either over nighting it or priority mail to the CA. I copied the one used in this forum as I think it hits the nail on the head. Since I will be traveling with my work in March, the only thing I changed in the letter was that I would need 45 days to respond AFTER they send me proof of validation. So for now, I think I've done all I can do. I've complied with what the CA & NAF requested. I feel the ball is now in their court. But if anyone can think of anything I haven't or should have done by reading my previous posts, PLEASE let me know ASAP. Thanks again to everyone for their help. I could never have handled the issue w/o the assistance from this forum.

I've noted that some of the responses to my notes have been "if they take you to court or if they sue." Is that how most of these cases end up? Am I doomed from the get-go? I'm sending the DV tomorrow, again within the 30 day limitation but I'm wondering if this is going to do any good. I think it will IF I end up in court...or will it? I'd of course like to avoid court at all costs.

Well, it sounds like they are trying to force arbitration on you. I have heard horror stories about how they are biased for the CAs and JDBs....so I wouldn't trust them. I would try to fight the whole thing from the get go..unless there is a contract stating otherwise, you are afforded the right of due process. You might really want to look into a lawyer...it seems like even if they can't force the arbitration, they may try to take you to court anyhow...you never know.

After sending the DV I plan to wait & see what their next approach is. I was also told that even though the debt has supposedly been sold to the CA, I should try to contact the original owner of the debt, get all the pertinent info. & see if they want to try to reach a settlement, thus ruling out the CA altogether. Whether or not that can be done, I'm not sure but it's worth a try at this point. I'm anxious to see what the CA puts in the DV. For one thing, they have the middle name on the account wrong so I also want to see what SS# they have. I sent a copy of the DV letter in this forum which sounds very professional to me so I hope the CA doesn't think they can just push me around w/o me fighting back. Once I receive the DV, it will be another whole ball game. But in the meantime, if anyone has suggestions on how to proceed from here, please let me know. Thanks!

the lettor was sent to ebay inc and they only sent me an invoice that says i owe them money with no proof is a invoice proof of debt?

Welcome to the forum Mr. Reynolds.
Could you give us a little more information on your situation so that we may be able to better assist you.

As I wrote in previous posts, I received a certified letter in Jan. from a CA regarding collection & that the NAF would arbitrate. As soon as I found this forum, I sent all the appropriate letters, return receipt, certified, etc. The NAF wrote that I could ask for an extension which I did. This expires on April 3rd. Since then the CA has not validated the debt & has written me and the NAF that they want an indefinite stay or something along those terms. So what's going on? In the beginning they were threatening me with all kinds of letters but now they are asking for the stay & I've heard nothing from them since they requested the stay.

If they are asking for an indefinite stay then that means they probably won't be able to validate, you may wish to consider contacting NAF to have their claim dismissed. Not sure if formal pleadings are allowed with NAF as they are with court.

did i miss something? whats naf ? thanks

NAF = The National Arbitration Forum. It's ostensibly a neutral forum to resolve debt/collection cases without recourse to the courts. In reality, it's more a creature of the big CAs than not.

http://www.arbitrationjustice.com/

http://budhibbs.com/debtcollectorpages/wolpoff_abramson.htm

Think paid for judgments.

I was served papers a few days ago for some medical bills that I am pretty sure some are mine but am unsure about the others. When I called the collector they said they do not have to show the judge any more proof than that the social security number matches and they have my full name. Is this true? The lady told me that I have to show proof that there was fraud. As of now I don't know how to "answer" the court and the filing fee is ridiculous. I can't believe I may have to pay this if I really believe that some of these are not valid. Help please

She was lieing through her teeth. She likely told you that to scare you into paying. You need to send a debt validation letter asap, that way they can't legally continue to collect (including sue you) until they can properly validate the debt. You will be looking for the original statements from the doctor and the form you signed promising payment.

Great! Thank you. I will get it in the mail today. She told me I have 20 days, from the date I was served, to settle even though I am requesting proof. Yet, the letter they served me with says if I request proof they will suspend all collection efforts until proof has been mailed. She said that tomorrow she would send the collection request from the hospital but if I wanted to know exact procedures or any other proof, I have to contact the hospital myself.

If you have been served already then the validation letter will do nothing to stay the suit as it has already been filed. At this point you will need to answer that civil complaint. Where it states that the account is yours or anything of that nature you should reply cannot confirm or deny without sufficient knowledge. You will request validating documents during the discovery phase, I would suggest a subpoena deus tecum. If they do not at least have the following

1. I copy of the bill for each account.
2. A contract or other document with your signature on it from the creditor showing where you had entered an agreement with the original creditor.
3. Documentation showing their relation to the original creditor. If the original creditor still owns the account and they are merely managing the account then they will have an assignment contract. If the original creditor no longer owns the account and has sold it to the collection agency you should request a bill of sale. This last part is part of challenging the chain of custody.

You should also check the summons/complaint for a docket number and contact your county court clerk's office to see if the suit really does exist. You can also check to see if the attorney is licensed to practice law in your state and if the collection agency possesses a valid business license for your state if applicable and if your states require bonding for collection agencies and if they have paid theirs.

Just saved, and printed, a copy of the letter provided.
Will be mailing a copy CM-RRR Monday, and use it again,
as necessary. Should more problems arise in the future.

In this case, it's going to a law office, requiring them to validate their claim. And I very seriously doubt they'll be able to validate it. A couple of previous validation attempts were never responded to.

So this is continued collection activity after validation had been requested previously?

I have just received a letter from the CA with a statement from origional creditor. Problem is I don't recall this bill at all. It is from 7/2000 but I think I would remember having been in a n ambulance. I called and asked for a contract with my signiture and they said that the statement is the only validation required under fdcpa section 809. They also included this sentence; "Such account or claim is rooted in expressed or implied contract of the principle and quantum meruit, as it represents charges for servises rendered to you". What does this mean? They said at this point I can write a letter of discrepency. Don't they have to provide me with the contract I requested? Help!!!

If they are collecting on behalf of a Emergency Medical Service then you should request a copy of the Patient Care Record (also known as just a PCR or a "trip sheet") you can also request a copy of the PDF which is a HIPAA document that most EMS providers have the patient to sign.

I called and told them that the statement they sent me was not proof that the bill actually belongs to me. They assured me that this was all they were required to show proof. I requested a PDF or a contract with my signiature and they told me they were not required to get that for me but I could investigate myself and send a letter of dispute. How are they legally able to collect with just a statement?

I sent a letter requesting proof last month and the 30 days will be up tomorrow. I haven't received documents of proof for the debt from the CA as of today. If nothing should come tomorrow, what do I need to do then?

Hi, i was recetly insructed to dispute everything on my credit. doing this was suppossed to boost my credit score because the company has 30 days to respond if not they must remove the item from my credit. I disputed some charges and i recieved a letter about 1 week later from one of the companies stating that they know about the dispute and they have responded to the credit beuruea. they did not tell me what they responded though.

Is disputing something with the credit bureua the same as requestion validation?

What are acceptable forms of verification of debt?

After disputing things with the credit buruea does the creditor have to provide me with proof that the debt is valid?

Can the limit of stature start over after thae time is up if the current creditor sells the debt before the date arrives?