Are they lying to me of not
Date: Sun, 11/06/2011 - 05:24
It was Charged off and sent to a C.A who has been trying hard to collect.
they seem to be willing to work out payments but won't send anything in writing ( they say all calls are recorded so that's good enough) They will set up small automatic payments that increase by $50 each 6 month.
Also Someone sent a certified letter to my house , but I am not home to sign for it, so I take off to pick up of let it go back?
Key word is "loan". Loans have prom notes which outline the ter
Key word is "loan". Loans have prom notes which outline the terms of your agreement. The CA is not permitted to put anything in writing that will alter the terms of your promo note. Any payment arrangements that are made are simply temporary and are subject to change at any time.
Not picking up a certified letter could backfire ....you more than likely confirmed your address so they know it is correct. When I was collecting a lot of debtors used the "ignorance is bliss" attitude...not opening up mail to them meant nothing was going to happen. They could be suing you, do you want the next notice to be by publication in your local newspaper? Things like this do regularly occur.
Yes, not picking up the letter was a mistake. But, if they are a
Yes, not picking up the letter was a mistake. But, if they are agreeing to the settlement, they are supposed to send you a written agreement on that. As they are not agreeing to do this, you can send them a settlement letter requesting the CA to agree to the settlement. If they accept the letter and then your payments, this can act as proof of the settlement; and if they answer back through a letter, then well and good. This can serve as a much better proof of your agreement.
I am going to have to disagree with soaplady.... Once you go in
I am going to have to disagree with soaplady....
Once you go into default, there exists a breach of contract. At that point, the terms of the agreement no longer apply--meaning they now have the right to demand the entire unpaid balance in full. There is nothing blocking the CA from putting a payment agreement in writing--if there was something, then the same issue would prevent them from recording a phone call with the same agreement on tape. Remember now, a verbal agreement IS a legally binding contract as long as you can prove that the verbal agreement actually took place. It is every bit as legally binding as a written agreement is. Think about it soaplady--if what you said were true, then no debt collector could ever collect on a debt in any manner aside from the scheduled payments according to the loan agreement. Once the contract is breached, all bets are off. In fact, this is why most loan agreements have provisions in them for collection procedures should the consumer default and breach the contract.
When I collected, NONE of our clients would permit payment arran
When I collected, NONE of our clients would permit payment arrangements in writing for exactly the reasons I stated. I am talking Department of Ed and all the FFELP lenders. Any payment plan we made was temporary and subject to change at any time. Another reason was debtors would try submitting these letters to the CRA's for updates and would use them for applying for credit. Yes a verbal arrangement is binding...but so many times the DEBTOR would misconstrue the arrangement the writtten agreement for their own benefit.
Quote:When I collected, NONE of our clients would permit payment
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When I collected, NONE of our clients would permit payment arrangements in writing for exactly the reasons I stated. I am talking Department of Ed and all the FFELP lenders. |
Your clients were all dealing with direct loans(USDoE) and federally guaranteed loans(FFELP). Perhaps there is something there about that market, but we are talking about a simple loan with BofA. I admit I do not have much experience with FFELP and USDoE, but I do know that there is nothing that REQUIRES no such settlement offer anywhere within contract law or anywhere else. If they CHOOSE not to do it in the section of the business that you worked in, that does not in any way mean that ALL lenders in ALL markets will choose the same thing. Not only that, but it is customary for debt collectors to tell consumers that they cannot put it in writing--and that is so that they can try to have a way out. Put it in writing, and all of a sudden your hands are a bit tied when it comes to collection. Plus, everyone knows that payment plans are not the best friend of the debt collector--they want to see the money TODAY, not months from now.
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Any payment plan we made was temporary and subject to change at any time. Another reason was debtors would try submitting these letters to the CRA's for updates and would use them for applying for credit. Yes a verbal arrangement is binding...but so many times the DEBTOR would misconstrue the arrangement the writtten agreement for their own benefit. |
There is, of course, a simple way around those things, and it happens in business every single day. It is called putting provisions in the written agreement to address those issues. If you were a CA, and you put statements in the written agreement, for example, that stated that this was not a restructuring of the original loan, but in fact the loan was in collection status and therefore this agreement cannot be used to falsely influence credit reports, then the CRAs wont have any thinking to do if someone actually tried to submit it as proof of a change in status. Provisions in contracts happen every day, in every industry. Why would it be so difficult to draw up simple provisions like that to address such false dealings? Man, the OC's put tons of provisions in the original contracts to guard against someone taking advantage of them, so it isnt like this is an alien concept within the credit industry.
I understand what you are saying, but it is more like an excuse than a legitimate issue. If those creditors wanted to do things properly for the consumers they would put it in writing. The truth is, they do not care about the consumer anymore--they only want the money. And what happens in student loan issues is not going to be the same as in all other personal debt. We tell people all the time, "get it in writing", and I have seen YOU tell people that on all sorts of debts before too....so while I understand and respect your experience, I cannot agree that this CA is being honest. They tell people every day that they cannot do things that they are actually required to do. How many times do we see people dealing with a CA, and they are told by that CA that "we cannot validate a debt"? This is no different in my eyes, in this case. BofA may not even own the debt anymore. Not only that but to top it all off, they are trying to set up something completely different than what you are talking about. Your experience is with situations that are "only temporary and subject to change". THIS CA is trying to set up a specific payment structure that says "we will start you off at this amount, and every six months until the debt is paid off, we will increase the payment amount by $50....." Clearly they are not trying to set up an "its only temporary, it could change at any minute" deal.
I just messaged a friend of mine who used to work the credit car
I just messaged a friend of mine who used to work the credit card side....he remembers a lot of the creditors (Discover and Citi specifically, he pretty sure others) who would not allow terms in writing. The collector is NOT permitted to write out and print just any letter...all letters that were sent out in specific instances had to be approved by the client. Like our student loan contracts, this would have been spelled out in the contract between the agency and creditor. Those could take days if not weeks to approve. We had one client services contact for each of the credit card and the student loan division....each serving 300 collectors with an average portfolio of 2000 accounts. We could get settlement letters with a 3 month payment arrangement and credit card could get 6 months agreement...but nothing more. In this original posters instance, I can very much understand the CA saying no...it is just too long term and they cannot specify the end date. Loans in particular dont want the original agreement compromised..they may take a $50 payment for 6 months and then the client may push for litigation or a speedier resolution. They do not their collection accounts being re-written so in most cases they say no. Again, from my specific experience, when I started collecting we were permitted to send out payment arrangement letters on rehabs....however too many people were submitting "reasonalble and affordable" payment letters to their mortgage companies showing a $60 on a $12000 loan....mortgage companies would call us up to verify and manually update a credit report and we would have to tell them, nope, default, balance in full still due. Others got car loans based on these letters....and then stopped paying us. A lot of the clamp down came due to abusive practices by the debtors.
Quote:I just messaged a friend of mine who used to work the cred
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I just messaged a friend of mine who used to work the credit card side....he remembers a lot of the creditors (Discover and Citi specifically, he pretty sure others) who would not allow terms in writing. The collector is NOT permitted to write out and print just any letter...all letters that were sent out in specific instances had to be approved by the client. |
Well, if a CA is allowed to make a specific payment arrangement, then there should be no trouble at all getting approval for a letter.
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Like our student loan contracts, this would have been spelled out in the contract between the agency and creditor. Those could take days if not weeks to approve. We had one client services contact for each of the credit card and the student loan division....each serving 300 collectors with an average portfolio of 2000 accounts. |
With all respect to you, there is a rather big difference between saying "they are not allowed to put it in writing", and "they need approval to put it in writing". You originally said they cannot....now youre saying they need approval to do so. I am not saying that they should be able to whip one up in a minute, but if they are specifically offering a payment arrangement to a consumer, then there should be no trouble getting it in writing, period.
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We could get settlement letters with a 3 month payment arrangement and credit card could get 6 months agreement...but nothing more. |
The problem with what you are saying, with regard to this case, is the fact that the CA volunteered a payment arrangement, and the CA's own offer obviously lasts longer than 6 months. This is not the same as some consumer saying "would you take ____ a month? its all I can afford".....this is a debt collector making a specific offer that lasts longer than what you are saying. Now, either you are not correct or this debt collector is lying to the consumer anyways.....you tell me which one it is.
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In this original posters instance, I can very much understand the CA saying no...it is just too long term and they cannot specify the end date. |
If you owe a certain amount of money, and they apply this specific payment plan to what is owed, they very much can tell what the end date would be, so that is not correct at all. And again, if they are willing to offer it, then they should have no problem putting it on paper. Remember now, thsi is not the same as what you are talking about--this is a debt collector, offering a specific payment plan that THEY came up with. This is not a consumer making what they feel is a "reasonable offer". If they cannot put it to paper, as you are saying, because the client would not approve it, then the client wouldnt approve the offer itself. And the CA has no business making such an offer if the client cannot back it up in writing. The CA is there to represent the CLIENT, and if they make offers that are not speaking for the client's wishes, then something is very wrong there.
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Loans in particular dont want the original agreement compromised..they may take a $50 payment for 6 months and then the client may push for litigation or a speedier resolution. They do not their collection accounts being re-written so in most cases they say no. |
And again, this isnt a "$50 payment for 6 months". The payment plan was entirely proposed by the CA, and it includes an increase every 6 months. There is no good reason on the planet why a CA should be allowed to make such offers if they are not ever going to be upheld by the client. It is that simple. Anywhere else in the business world, if a company did this crap, it would mean trouble.
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Again, from my specific experience, when I started collecting we were permitted to send out payment arrangement letters on rehabs.... |
Again, your experience was in quite a different situation than this one. When an OC charges off the account, and it is closed and sent off to a debt buyer, there is no "rehabbing" it. Student loans that are delinquent are not at all the same as a bank loan that is charged off and possbly not even owned by the OC anymore. In fact, the moment that a debt is charged off, and it shows as charged off on your credit report, the thought of getting a letter showing "reasonable payment plan" and trying to change the credit is not very possible. When it is listed as a charged-off debt, potential creditors will see that.
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However too many people were submitting "reasonalble and affordable" payment letters to their mortgage companies showing a $60 on a $12000 loan....mortgage companies would call us up to verify and manually update a credit report and we would have to tell them, nope, default, balance in full still due. Others got car loans based on these letters....and then stopped paying us. A lot of the clamp down came due to abusive practices by the debtors. |
And again, you are comparing apples to oranges. This has nothing to do with a debtor submitting a "reasonable and affordable" payment letter. There is a very simple way to prevent that--is is called writing a letter that doesnt allow it. This is so simple....
Dear Mr. ____:
This letter shall constitute the agreement between you and ______ Collection Agency for repayment of the above identified debt. Please keep in mind that this agreement does not change the status of this account to good standing-this is a collection account and this payment plan offer is an attempt to collect on a debt that you have defaulted on. As we discussed, we will accept payments in the amount of $____, due on the ____ of each month and with the first payment due on _____.
Thats just a basic idea obviously, but no CRA could look at that and get the idea that the account has been returned to "good standing". No potential creditor could, either. Its funny----creditors, debt buyers, and CAs know how to CYA all the time, but they dont know how to write that letter??? With all respect to you, I dont buy it. The simple fact is they CHOOSE to lie to debtors like this. The only conceivable reason is because they dont care about anything but the money.