debt collection for a disputed debt

did you provide them with your mailing address when you spoke with them? if they didnt have it before (as stupid as that seems) and you didnt give it to them now then how could they send you a dunning notice? they are not exempt from fdcpa, only original creditors are.

Lawyers can be exempt from FDCPA only if a very small part of the work they do is collections. It's a gray area. The businesslike decision should be made. If it is not your debt, then dispute it. If it is, is it worth losing the money on your refi? Would it be more profitable for you to resolve in a way that they show it paid or even agree to remove it from your credit report? I'm not in favor of paying debt collectors, but you need to make the decision that is right for you.

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Agreed.

Skydivr, THANKS!


I am VERY impressed by your knowledge!


I do not believe I owe this money to the bank. It's a pretty long story, but I have an acquaintance who is a branch manager at Ass Bank who looked at everything and said they were intentionally overdrafting the account they are trying to make me pay now.

I will record the call on Monday morning. Later that day I will send the debt validation letter. Does this look OK to you--I copied the template from another site?


Monco Law
Street Address
City, State, Zip Code

Re: Dispute of Alleged Collection Amount
Account: Account Number
Amount: Dollar Amount
Creditor: Name of Original Creditor

Attention: Account Manager

It has been brought to my attention that you are attempting to collect on an account that is in legal dispute. Therefore, please consider this response as my legal dispute and request for you under public law 95-109, 15 USC 1692g. S 809 to obtain verification of this alleged debt or a copy of a judgment against me. I furthermore request the name and address of the original creditor stating that this alleged liability is mine so that civil action can be implemented to resolve this erroneous accusation, if necessary.

Any further attempt to collect and/or continue to falsely report this disputed information on my personal credit file without complying to the above stated provisions will be deemed as non-compliance and you will be held liable under 15 USC 1692 (k) (civil liability) to one or more of the following:

All actual damage sustained by a consumer as a result of such failure;

(A) Included above, additional damages allowed by the court, not exceeding $1,000; or

If a class action is filed, such amount for each named plaintiff, recovered under subparagraph (A) of the stated Title, and an amount not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

All cost accrued by the consumers??? successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, along with attorney???s fee.

It is my intention to resolve your inaccurate reporting of this activity contained on my file amiably. However, rest assured I would pursue all legal rights therein to resolve this matter.

If this liability is proven to be due, it is my intention to retire it immediately. I look forward to your response within the next 30 days. Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Your Address

I am not sure whether to include the violations they have committed in the DV letter. Should I? And yes, I am losing money and obviously time dealing with an issue that was mishandled on their side from the very beginning. I might take them to small claims later. Again, thank you.

You know what I would do, actually?

I would get rid of that letter completely. I would start off the same, identifying the account they are trying to collect, and then I would simply say something like this:

(date here)

To Whom it May Concern:

I have recently discovered that you are reporting the above-identified debt on my credit report(s). This letter shall serve as notice that I hereby dispute this debt, and in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I hereby request that you provide proper legal validation of said account. Once you have obtained this validation, my copy can be sent to the address below. Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

(your name)
(your address)



--I would leave it at that. I would not come in charging right out of the gate talking about violations or lawsuits---your main objective is to clear up the incorrect account. If you piss them off, they are far less likely to actually do things to make that happen. If you have to take them to court because they break laws, we can help you get that sorted out, but it will take a LOT longer to do that. Like I said, your best bet at this point is to go at this from the point of view that this account is an error.

If you can get your friend at that bank to talk on the phone, and record what they say about the intentional overdrafts, you will have proof that they messed up and that you do not owe the money. That should go a long way to getting this resolved as quickly as possible.

Now, please--DO post again if this keeps up. If you go this route and they are playing games, we can help you with the info you need to handle that. But at least for now, this way could help to clear it up as quickly as possible. Two more things for you--that letter needs to be sent certified mail, returnb receipt, and also you need to check all three of your credit reports if you have not already. Let me know if this is on all three or not.

Again, thanks for your help.

I changed the letter earlier today and in addition to asking for basic proof that the account is theirs and that they have all the paperwork needed, I added 3 questions: When did they report us to the credit reporting agencies, when did they send us a notice in the mail, and when did they call us on the phone. I would like to have that info in writing :)

Second, it is only reported to Transunion. Now I noticed that there are asterisks next to BU1 and CU1 and at the end of the report these asterisks seem to refer to a Facta check that the address Monco provided was not the best address on our record. Maybe those clowns really didn't know how to find us--which is simply hilarious, because in addition to Ass Bank having our current info, we've been homeowners in the same town, and have a very unique last name--a simple google search will give you my office and number at the university.

Finally, my friend at the bank did a lot to help me track down these people--I am not ok with involving her more. Getting out of about a thousand dollars is not worth jeopardizing her job there.

Again, I am very thankful for all your help. And yes, I will keep posting until the problem is fixed.

Thank you!

You should already have the info about when they reported on your credit file from TU. But I would not be surprised if they do not give you answers to the other two questions.

One thing I would consider doing is going to the bank and requesting a printout of all the activity on this account. They should be able to provide it. And if they falsely overdrafted you it should show up on that record.

As for the correct address, even if Associated Bank didnt have it, they reported on your credit file, which tells me that they knew what it was because when they pull your credit, they would see the current address on it.

Thanks, skydivr.

I also wonder how many of the questions they are obligated by law to answer. I know when they reported me but wanted to have included in the same documents, hopefully also showing the gap of 4 months between their report and my contacting them.

I do have a printout of the activity. As for the address, I don't understand the process entirely--do they see a copy of my credit report when they add something to it? What exactly do they gain from not contacting me as soon as they can? I can see how it is hugely inconvenient to me, but what is their benefit?

Do you still think there is benefit to calling them and asking about why they didn't call me and for their mailing address? My sister's cell phone can actually record conversations but she had an emergency trip out of town until Wednesday and I had to put the recording plan on hold for the time being.

Again, gratitude.

Skydivr, hi again.

I sent the DV 10 days ago and today I received their reply--it simply includes a printout of a few months of my account and our signatures on opening the checking account. None of the documents show our agreement to automatic payments from this account to another Ass Bank account (our mortgage). The payment was applied without our authorization while the loan it was applied towards was in loss mitigation and ended up as deed in lieu of foreclosure a few months later. A document shows all the money we needed to pay Ass Bank and never mentions a checking account that they deliberately overdrafted to make a payment.

I still dispute the charges and refuse to pay the money. What do I do next?
Thanks!

I would recommend checking the paperwork for the defaulted mortgage that you had--the one that went as deed in lieu of foreclosure. it is entirely possible that there was a clause in that loan agreement that gave them the right to debit funds from your account in case of late payments. That is not uncommon when the bank account is with the same bank as the loan itself.

if you check the paperwork and there is no such clause, then you are off the hook for this money and there isnt anything they can do about it. Check that paperwork ASAP and see what it says. If there is a clause there, feel free to let me know precisely how it is worded, if youre OK with doing so. It is possible that you could have authorized them to debit the account without knowing it because it was in the agreement, but I am curious as to what the situation would be when they try to take more money than the amount that they know to be in the account--after all, it is the bank trying to take that money, so it isnt like they wouldnt know the account balance at the time.

Hi again, thanks for listening. Even the lawyer who helped us with the deed in lieu today said to just pay them, as his services will likely be more expensive than the amount of the mortgage plus fees.
Anyway, I checked the paperwork and found a piece of paper that thanked us for enrolling in automatic payments :(. I don't see the terms you were looking for, like what to do if we had insufficient funds. The really bad part is that my husband made a payment of equal value after the account had closed--we assumed it was to cover the checking account overdraft but they had applied it to the mortgage account. I am guessing there isn't much left to do..sigh...Bastards...I have been sending them monthly payments for almost 2 years and they still find a way to get more money.

Skydiver, do you have any good tips on settling for less than what we owe? More importantly, what exactly should I ask them to report to the credit reporting agencies so it can have minimum impact on my credit?
Thanks!

you found a piece of paper, but did you find anything with your signature on it that stated that you agreed to automatic payments? Is there any specific provision in the loan agreement that allows them to take money out at their discretion?

If not, then you may have a way out of this. Same bank or not, if you do not give them permission to go into that other account at will then they should not be able to do that.

No, there is nothing with our signature on it that I can find. We are talking about 2007-2008, so it's quite possible that I have misplaced it. Can I send them a letter asking them to prove that I agreed to automatic payments?
In response to the DV they only sent our signatures when we opened the checking account--but nothing on it authorizes automatic payments. If it happened, it would have happened later in the process.
Thanks!

Skydivr, what should my next step be--should I ask them to prove that I had agreed to automatic payments?
Thanks!

Yes, you can do that....I would tell them that the checking account itself is not in dispute, but rather the fact that they tried to withdraw money without your authorization. Tell them that this money was taken from your account without your consent, and as such you cannot be held liable for it. Demand to see what gives the bank the right to go into your account like that without your prior consent.

Hi Skydivr,
The one thing those guys are good at is getting back at me quickly. I sent them a letter asking to see what gives them the right to withdraw money without authorization.
They sent me the authorization form we signed for automatic transfer. They also said in their letter that "this debt is now considered verified pursuant to you requests". Does that mean anything?

Anyway, their lawyer asks me to look at the paragraph above our signatures, and the paragraph says: "We understand that our funds must be available at the end of the business day prior to the transfer day. If the funds are not available at the specified time, the transfer will not be completed, which will result in the imposition of fees and charges for returned withdrawals, and may result in late payment fees and charges imposed under your loan agreement."

Am I crazy, or does it really say that if we don't have the funds, the transfer will not be completed?
Thanks!

Not completed and not attempted are not the same. They will attempt to debit the account and, if the funds aren't available, the transaction isn't completed. Then you'll be charged fees by the creditor and the bank.

OhioGal,
Thanks for your input. I understand they can go after the fees. However, they are now asking me for all the fees plus the money they transferred. Is that legit?

If they have your signature on an authorization for automatic transfer payments, it likely is legit. Skydvr knows way more than I do, though. Let's see what he has to say about it.

Sure, they have my signature, but I had no money in the account. They knew that and still overdrafted me. Let's see what skydivr says :)

Was this before or after Reg E? Did you have Overdraft protection on the account? Had you given your bank permission to pay items that would OD the account?

Unfortunately, it was before Reg E. I haven't authorized OD.

Hmm, before Reg E. Yeah, let's let the skydvr have the final word on this one. :)

[QUOTE=Anonymous;752190]Hi Skydivr,
The one thing those guys are good at is getting back at me quickly. I sent them a letter asking to see what gives them the right to withdraw money without authorization.
They sent me the authorization form we signed for automatic transfer. They also said in their letter that "this debt is now considered verified pursuant to you requests". Does that mean anything?

Anyway, their lawyer asks me to look at the paragraph above our signatures, and the paragraph says: "We understand that our funds must be available at the end of the business day prior to the transfer day. If the funds are not available at the specified time, the transfer will not be completed, which will result in the imposition of fees and charges for returned withdrawals, and may result in late payment fees and charges imposed under your loan agreement."

Am I crazy, or does it really say that if we don't have the funds, the transfer will not be completed?
Thanks![/QUOTE]

When you say "automatic transfer", I believe that is the same as them having the right to go into that account without any further notice? If so, then they have you on this one. Look through that signed statement, it should be very clear as to what exactly you authorized them to do when you signed it. If it says that you give them permission to transfer funds from the account to apply to your mortgage payments, then you are liable for this debt.

If the statement does not have any such permission being given by you in it, then thats a different story....it would help if we knew what that document said on it.

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Skydivr, sorry for the confusion.

Here's how it went. We hired a lawyer to help us do a deed in luei of foreclosure. He recommended us to stop making payments in order to be taken seriously by the bank. We stopped making payments. We used to put money in the checking account every month and then it was transferred to the mortgage loan. One month we didn't put any money in the account--we had decided to stop making the payments. They applied the automatic transfer anyway, overdrafted us, and now ask for that money plus fees. Our account in the beginning of the month was 0, after their transfer it became negative XXXX. I hope it's more clear now.

Yes, the document we signed gives them permission to transfer the funds. But what about the provision that if we don't have the money in the bank, the transfer will not be completed?

Thanks!

Skydivr,

Did this answer your question?

We stumbled on these posts by chance. We are being harassed endlessly by Allied International- a very UNPROFESSIONAL collection agency. They even refer to one of their own as "Baby Bitch". They are scammers-they try to say they will help your credit but the bank already wrote the debt off. We find their efforts to be humorous to say the least-we have found we can verbally abuse them in all ways imaginable and legallly get away with it. Strike one for the consumer!

So Associated Bank is your lender AND your bank, right? It seems to me that what they've done is taken the payment as an autotransfer, which, according to you was authorized. However, this overdrafted your account but they paid it anyway - probably since they were paying themselves basicall. Now they're coming after you, not for the payment (you've already paid it) but for the overdraft on your account.

Do I have it right?

In a nutshell, I think that you are legally going to be responsible for this.

They have you on a signed agreement for them to do the autotransfer. It isnt their responsibility to make sure that the money will be in the customer's account, legally speaking, so I do believe that they have you on this one.