CA served stranger, now I have a judgement?
Date: Wed, 11/09/2011 - 22:29
I've got an... odd situation. It's a long story, so I'll try to get to the good stuff. :)
I have an account with Best Buy/HSBC, balance of $1,100, that I haven't made a payment on in almost a year (same amount of time i've been unemployed) About 3 months ago, I spoke with an acct. rep at Gurstel Chargo, who is collecting for HSBC, and made a settlement offer of $500. I never heard back.
Fast forward to yesterday. I received a call from a different rep who mentioned a judgement (in passing) & asked about a settlement. I again offered $500. Got the usual "have to check with my client & call you back."
Today, I receive a call with a counter of $650 and, when I protest, the rep states that I "already have a judgement" and "what about ___?", mentioning someone I've never heard of. I ask, "what judgement?" and "who?"
Here's where it gets interesting...
The rep tells me that this woman was served over a month ago, at an address I've never lived at, that she's on my account and that a judgement was placed against me, as neither of us showed up in court. I, of course, freak out a little, as this means some stranger has a good amount of my personal information. (I'm not sure what is in a summons, but more than what anyone would want a stranger to have, I assume.)
The rep tried to back track and placed me on hold several times (damage control?) and we ended the conversation with him saying that the summons was going to be reissued to me this time and me stating that I was planning to contact "some people" to find out what could be done about this gross negligence. (it's all I could think of)
So, here's my question: what do I do? Yes, I'm super weirded out that someone has my info, but I'm also wondering if the collection agency didn't do something that I can maybe use to my advantage to try and secure a better settlement offer.
Thanks in advance for any help!
hiya, First things first--take a deep breath. There are some
hiya,
First things first--take a deep breath. There are some serious red flags with what you were told, lets attack them one at at time.
The very first thing I would do is check with the court clerks office in the county where you live. Also, they gave you an address that you never lived at--is that address in the same county where you live? If not, then check with the county where that address is too. You are looking to see if anyone has filed any lawsuit against you. If you find that there was one filed, you want to review the full docket for the case. Specifically you want to know about the proof of service.
For some reason, I have a feeling that they may never have even sued you. Either that, or they falsified their claims so that they could have you "served" intentionally at an address where you would never hear about the summons. This is an old trick--they get to claim to the court that they had you served, but because you know nothing about the lawsuit, you never show and they win a default judgment. Please let us know what you find out from the court clerks office. Do be sure to check them both, if the other address is in another county. Make notes of the info you receive, ask for case number, etc etc.
Now, if they didnt actually file any suit, then you have them in a violation of federal law. It is very illegal, according to the FDCPA, for them to claim that they filed a lawsuit if they didnt.
Quote:
Today, I receive a call with a counter of $650 and, when I protest, the rep states that I "already have a judgement" |
This is one of the red flags I mentioned. It would be VERY uncommon for a CA to get a judgment against you, and then immediately afterward, offer a settlement of $650 on an $1100 judgment. Keep this in mind too--by law, they get to tack on all the attorney fees and court costs to the amount you owe if they win a judgment. So, if you owed $1100 before judgment, you would owe more now if there really were a judgment. And heres the kicker--they would be very unlikely to settle right now--if they really had a judgment, they have remedies at their disposal to collect the full balance, not a portion of it. It just doesnt add up.
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The rep tells me that this woman was served over a month ago, at an address I've never lived at, that she's on my account and that a judgement was placed against me, as neither of us showed up in court. |
It is possible for them to have served you "over a month ago" and get a judgment between then and now. But keep this in mind---from the moment a summons is served, you are given a set number of days in which to answer. In that time, they cannot possibly obtain a judgment. That number of days is usually 20, but it is different in every state. It is possible but these things can typically take longer. The court system is overcrowded.
Quote:
The rep tried to back track and placed me on hold several times (damage control?) and we ended the conversation with him saying that the summons was going to be reissued to me this time and me stating that I was planning to contact "some people" to find out what could be done about this gross negligence. (it's all I could think of) |
This is a BIG red flag....if they had really served a summons, and if they already got a judgment in the case....there would be no way possible for them to "reissue a summons" for you. The case would be over. They would already have their judgment. And, debt collectors in general are taught to be ruthless--even when they know they are lying, it seems a little strange to me that you would explain one time to these people and they would come back with "sorry bout that, we'll have the summons reissued to your current address....." You see, to the average debt collector, anything you say besides "yes, I will pay you right now" tends to be considered a lie or an excuse. If they already had a judgment on you, then they would not be this passive.
What state do you live in? My best suggestion is to check the court clerks, and if they filed no lawsuit, as long as you live in a one-party state, then record the phone call without telling them. I personally use a microcassette recorder from radio shack that has phone jacks built-in--it hooks right inline on the phone cord. But before you go there, lets make sure that it is legal in your state. Most states are legal for this.
Thats all for now--get back to us with an update and we will go from there. Oh, also, do a search in google on that debt collector. You will see that they have been sued numerous times for violating federal law and consumers' rights.
great answer... i especially agree with the following - Quo
great answer...
i especially agree with the following -
Quote:
This is a BIG red flag....if they had really served a summons, and if they already got a judgment in the case....there would be no way possible for them to "reissue a summons" for you. The case would be over. They would already have their judgment. And, debt collectors in general are taught to be ruthless--even when they know they are lying, it seems a little strange to me that you would explain one time to these people and they would come back with "sorry bout that, we'll have the summons reissued to your current address....." You see, to the average debt collector, anything you say besides "yes, I will pay you right now" tends to be considered a lie or an excuse. If they already had a judgment on you, then they would not be this passive. |
if there WERE a judgment, they would need to vacate that prior to reissuing any summons, and they wouldnt do this unless you filed a motion with the court and they were forced to. i would bet everything i had that there is no judgment here....
Update...
Ok, here's the latest...
I'm in Arizona, so I called the Superior Court - they had nothing in their system. They referred me to the Justice Court. Nothing there, either. Now, both courts stated that just because they didn't see anything, didn't mean there ISN'T anything. I have a very common name and they said it's possible that it's still "in process" or they just didn't see it. Oy.
Some additional information that I didn't add in my first post: according to a credit alert from Credit Karma, Gurstel pulled my credit on 11/6. This seems odd... if they served "me" on 10/9 (what I was told on the phone), wouldn't this have been done before that date? Also, wouldn't a judgement show up on my credit as well?
Like both of you who responded to me (thank you, by the way!), I'm starting to believe there is/was no summons, judgement, etc. My assumption is this story was told to me as a veiled threat, thinking I would panic and pay before this "new" summons and judgement could be issued. Thanks to this site, THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.
I'm thinking of calling Gurstel and stating that they have violated several FDCPA regulations (claiming to file a lawsuit, revealing debt to a third party {the mystery person who was served with the summons with MY personal information}) and, unless they choose to settle on MY terms, I will be pursuing a lawsuit against them.
Good idea? Bad idea?
bad bad idea
this place already broke the law hand over fist,and i'm guessing you got nothing in writing from them correct?if that's the case you call only to state you will not speak to them again until you get a letter of collection.if you did get a letter send them a DV(debt validation)letter certified mail return receipt.bottomline is this piece of garbage most likely bought the debt but if you pressed them can't validate so they as you stated resorted to illegal threats and statements.i wouldn't pay them now without solid validation/proof from them now.
FYI...you cant get them on the summons. Summon's are served thr
FYI...you cant get them on the summons. Summon's are served thru an independant third party, like a process server, county sherriff, etc. Once actions hit the court phase, they are public information. However you have them lying about summons...
not only that
they said,or intimated there was an actual judgement.don't know if AZ is one,or two party as far as recording goes,but it would be nice if they can get that on tape.make any action a slam dunk.
I'm baaack...
I quite literally JUST hung up with the Gurstel rep. Here's the latest:
They are now stating that the summons has been "reversed" and reissued as of yesterday afternoon and there was never a judgement under my SSN. I asked why I was now getting a completely different story and the rep said nothing changed - he told me the same thing yesterday. Um?
I was not prepared for this, so I stumbled my way through the conversation. The rep said that the 50% settlement was still on the table. I again offered $500 and said that because of the way this has been handled, I think it's only appropriate that they accept the offer. The rep is supposedly going to take it to the HSBC "coordinator", but who knows? I did say I want what ever settlement we end up with in writing before I will make any payment.
Wow, I am spent.
P.S. I did record the conversation, but I don't think it's worth anything.
OK, here we go... You live in Arizona--that is a one-party stat
OK, here we go...
You live in Arizona--that is a one-party state. So you can record calls legally without ever telling them. And yes, the recording you made today is worth something because I have no doubt that they never sued you in the first place. So, for them to claim they did is a lie--illegal.
So, here's what I would do. I would NOT call them and read them the riot act. I would call them and play dumb a bit. Let them tell you how you have been sued. Let them tell you all this nonsense. Go along with it--even try to sound scared a bit if you can. Let them run their game. Then, when it comes time for them to start demanding payment, then I would change my tune. The first thing you need to stop doing is offering them a settlement. They have broken laws, and they now owe YOU money if you choose to pursue them. I would tell them that you still have not received anything in writing from them, and ask them why not. Once you get to this point I would not spend much time on the phone with them. I would forget what they just told you about how the summons was "reversed". When you talk to them, I would act as if they are still saying that they have a judgment on you. Maybe ask them something like "since you already have a judgment on me, what is the next step?" Either way, let them dig their own grave on this one, and then end the call. To end the call, tell them that you need to see something in writing from them. Tell them that you need to figure out what can and cannot be done right now. Then get off the phone.
The goal at this point is no longer to try to settle the debt. If you play your cards right, by the time this is done, you will not have to pay one penny, the debt will be forever gone, and they might even end up paying you something for their errors.
Quote:FYI...you cant get them on the summons. Summon's are serv
Quote:
FYI...you cant get them on the summons. Summon's are served thru an independant third party, like a process server, county sherriff, etc. Once actions hit the court phase, they are public information. However you have them lying about summons... |
This is false--for one thing, they claim that they already served a summons. If they never did, then yes, you can get them on that. Second, they claim to have served her at an address that has no attachment to her at all. And while process servers are a third party, the process server uses the address and info that the plaintiff provides. And in the end, in front of the court, it is the plaintiff that is 100% responsible for what happens with a summons.
My money says there never was a summons. That makes them on the hook for even claiming there was one.
Their website advertises the company as a professional company. They include litigation among their offered services. Here is some interesting reading on them:
http://www.debtcreditlaw.com/storage/2010-07-07%20Order%20Granting%20PMSJ.pdf
In other words, they were sued in Arizona's federal district court and they lost. They violated the FDCPA and got caught. This isnt their first time doing it, either.